Prodigy Advanced

[Anonymous]

I noticed a good preliminary review and info on the Peco Code 83. Any info on availability and review on the new Prodigy Advanced from MRC????
Thanks in advance,
Mark
http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1015590/

[cacole]

Check Tony's Train Exchange at http://www.tonystrains.com for a review of the new Prodigy Advanced

[Anonymous]

There is also a small review in "model railroad news", it's pretty muuch the same this being said as the Tony's Train exchange. Expected August delivery. I have one on backorder and when it comes out I will post my own review of it on the boards.
Andrew

[jnichols]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markie99

Any info on availability and review on the new Prodigy Advanced from MRC????
Thanks in advance,
Mark

Mark,

Not a bad command system, especially as a first system for someone who hasn't jumped into the big pool of DCC yet. Make sure you check out the competition before buying, as there are several limitations to the system that may or may not affect your control application. After several weeks of using the Advance, I still think the Digitrax Zephyr is a much better buy assuming the 10 loco slot limit is ok for you, but the Advance is a solid product in it's own right.

Good luck!

[davekelly]

I did notice in the chart on Tony's site that the MRC controls 20 functions while the Digitrax does 14. How much of a factor is this?

[Paul3]

The problem I have with Tony's write-up of the Prodigy Advance is (as I said on the Atlas Forum) it looks like MRC wrote it.

For example, the lead MRC DCC page from Tony's says, "MRC's PRODIGY DCC is a breath of fresh air." If you check out MRC's own webpage, it says, "MRC’s Prodigy DCC (Digital Command Control) is a breath of fresh air." Who's opinion is it that the Prodigy is a "breath of fresh air"? Tony's, or MRC's?

Tony also says, "Within minutes, you'll be controlling multiple locos on the same track, going at different speeds in different directions." MRC says, "You can control multiple locos on the same track, going at different speeds, in different directions." It's almost word for word, for pete's sake.

And then there's the description of the new "Brilliance" diesel sound decoder on Tony's. "...and a magnificently operated set of directional light effects including Headlight, Ditch light, Mars light, Gyralight and Beacon light." "Magnificently operated?" No other decoder description (the one that's just supposed to supply the facts) on Tony's uses such flattering language. What gives?

To me, something smells funny about it. I don't know if Tony's webmaster got lazy and just copied the MRC press release, or something else...

Dave,
About the functions, I don't think there is anything that currently can use over 13 functions (F0-F12), so at the moment, I think it's a moot point. AJ Ireland of Digitrax was at the NMRA convention and someone video taped his demo of the new Digitrax sound decoders and posted it to the web. During that demo, AJ mentioned that the NMRA just approved, or was just about to approve, support of functions F13-F28. Since that was only this summer, I don't think MRC's support of 20 functions means anything right now.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[davekelly]

Paul,

Thanks for the info concerning functions. Interesting that we'll see 28 functions in the near future. Did AJ say anything about possible updating of existing systems to support more functions in the future?

While I don't see needing more than 14, a few years ago I didn't see a need for DCC either! lol.

Thanks!

Dave

[cacole]

Tony's says outright that their news is from "MRC's News Release" about their products; so yes, it is what MRC is saying, and not an actual hands-on evaluation by Tony's people.

After some very unpleasant experiences with early MRC DCC products, I will never purchase anything they make, so I never read their "review" that closely before.

Sorry if someone may have been misled by their "news."

[jfugate]

The biggest shortcoming of the MRC PA system is it has no computer interface, nor does it have any capability to do such.

Without a computer interface, you cannot use free tools like DecoderPro, which makes decoder programming far simpler.

IMO, no serious DCC user should be without DecoderPro.

[dharmon]

I've got a PA. Easy to use and user friendly. All systems have limitations and qualities. Just figure out what you need and want for your situation.

Dan

PS....But since I don't seem to have any need for computer interface right now....I guess I'm no serious DCC user and my opinion doesn't count.

Here we go again.....

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

PS....But since I don't seem to have any need for computer interface right now....I guess I'm no serious DCC user and my opinion doesn't count.

dharmon:

Without DecoderPro, being a serious DCC user is harder, which is my only point. We're talking systems here, not people. Everyone's opinion counts, and don't let anyone on here tell you any different. [tup]

Minus DecoderPro (or a similar PC application), you have to program decoders the hard way ... one CV at a time, all by hand.

With DecoderPro, you can save decoder settings you like to a file and then just load the next decoder with all the same settings with the click of a mouse. If you have a larger layout like I do with 60 some locos, being able to save all the loco decoder settings to a PC and then reload things with a few mouse clicks is a great timesaver.

Life is too short to spend all that time tediously programming decoder CVs ... once you've used DecoderPro you wonder how you ever got along without it before. Any DCC system that doesn't provide a computer interface is really short changing their customers, IMO.

[Anonymous]

I can see Joe's point, but not everyone's computer life and model railroad life intersect.

It seems as if you're not into intermingling the two, the Prodigy Advanced would be just fine.

Some people like to get all teched-out with things, some people don't. I'm personally somewhere in between.

I'll likely be buying the Digitrax Zephyr when I get started in DCC because it leaves you all the upgradability options, so I won't have to "decide now" what features/limitations I could live with. I'll always have the ability to upgrade.

I'm borderline on DCC in general. I imagine I'll always have small layouts, will most often be running by myself, etc.

There is something cool about straight DC. There's no black "magic box" you have to rely on. With DC, you know what's going on all the time - there's something pretty cool about that.

But, with DCC now being as cheap as it is, I don't think I'll be able to resist getting into it.

[jfugate]

Yes, not everyone is into *gadgets* for their layout, 'tis true.

By "serious" DCC user, I'm thinking someone who wants to take DCC to the max and do the absolute most you can do with it, in the simplest, yet most powerful ways.

Doesn't mean any other approach to DCC isn't valid ... heavens no.

I am just afraid a few people may see the MRC systems and think they are a great cheap starter system. Problem is, the MRC systems are dead end if you ever expand your layout and your DCC pursuits. I hate to see people spend money on a system, only to realize later they need to buy something *else* to go further.

But I readily agree not everyone wants or needs to go farther ... but it's nice if people get the system they get with *both eyes open* and no future nasty surprises.

[davekelly]

Joe,

This fear of having to buy something else down the line is something that I have. Could you comment on my question earlier concerning number of functions? I'm thinking that the 14 that Digitrax handles is fine, but if I want to go to 20 plus in the future, does Digitrax have anything or down the road that will handle that?

Dave

[Anonymous]

Since we're talking about the Prodigy maybe some one can help me out. I re-addressed all of my fleet (Atlas, Proto 1 & 2's) and everything is fine. I figured I'd do my new BLI 482 the same way, well I don't know why but it won't move...the headlight goes on and off and the sound effects work but it just won't run. I put it on a DC track and its fine. I tried to disconnect the "clearing" jumper as per BLI's instructions but that didn't help. I tried to re-address it back to 3, again BLI's instructions but nothing, just sound effects. WHAT DID I DO?????

[Anonymous]

I think Joe makes some good points. I will never had a layout as large as his and I will probably never operate more than four or five trains at a time. In addition the tinkering around aspect of programming individual CVs is kind of fun for me. I have the same system Joe has, but he has all the latest updates and I don't. I just haven't needed them. If I were operating a complex layout like his I would have ALL the latest upgrades AND be using Decoder Pro. One of the great things about this hobby is that it is much like the Whopper at Burger King. You can have it your way!

Cheers,

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

Joe,

This fear of having to buy something else down the line is something that I have. Could you comment on my question earlier concerning number of functions? I'm thinking that the 14 that Digitrax handles is fine, but if I want to go to 20 plus in the future, does Digitrax have anything or down the road that will handle that?

Dave

If the new NMRA standard goes to F28, then Digitrax will have a throttle with 28 functions. Keep in mind older Digitrax sets prior to the DT400 only went up to F8. BUT - this is the beauty of the peer to peer design of Loconet - all you need do is plug in a throttle with the extra functions, right now the DT400 and UT4, and you now have those functions. I see other systems crow about being able to upgrade the command station - which you can with Digitrax as well, the chip can be swapped out just like other systems - but 99% of the time it isn't necessary, the new controllers with more functions work just fine with the old command stations. There have been a few exceptions, and upgrades have been made available to address them when required.

--Randy

[loathar]

Thanks for the computer post Joe. That's something I hadn't thought about. How do the decoders hold their settings. Do they loose them if you lift the loco off the track or get a short?

[jfugate]

Wow, lots of questions.

Lothar:

Decoders remember their settings forever under ordinary circumstances. Once in a while, a short or power spike might scramble something, but that's pretty rare. I've got lots of locos on the Siskiyou Line and I'll see one or two scrambled decoders in a year's worth of regular layout operations. Stuff happens, as they say.

Dave:

Randy, as usual, did a great job of answering your question. Myself, I have a hard time figuring out how to use 8 functions, much less 14 or 20. The steam sound decoders seem to be the most function-key hungry decoders these days. If you run steam, then it's a consideration ... otherwise, I wouldn't be too concerned.

JellyBean:

Make sure CV29 has all the settings you expect, especially those dealing with analog conversion and speed tables. If you happened to be pointing at a speed table that has all zeros in it or has a speed step that has a value that is smaller than the one before it, you can get odd loco behavior.

Resetting the decoder completely to initial values (not just resetting the address to 3) will let you start over.

This, interestingly, illustrates how DecoderPro can really make life simpler with a DCC layout. If you had a computer interface with DecoderPro, you could just reload all the CV settings from the saved loco profile for your loco with the click of a mouse and then go from there. When I get this problem, this is how I typically proceed and 99.9% of the time that solves the problem -- all in a matter of moments.

Otherwise, you get to do a lot of deugging and re-entering CVs by hand until you get to the bottom of the problem. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

[davekelly]

Randy and Joe,

Thanks for the quick answers to a question that's been bugging me for awhile. It never occurred to me that just putting the more advanced throttle into the loop would do that, I assumed (incorrectly) that the number of functions would be controlled by the base unit.

I never thought the advantages of decoder pro was worth worrying about, but I never thought about what happens if for some reason decoders deprogramed themselves. An excellent point worth thinking about.

Although I've sat the fence on DCC, I had a job interview this week that I feel really good about. Should it happen, a DCC system is first on my list and believe you me I'll be combing past threads looking for pointers and opinions on which to get. Of course, stand by - if things work out the way I hope they will, I'll be bombarding y'all with a ton of questions!!

You two can always be depended on for quick friendly advise and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has you on their "super good guy" list!

Dave

[johncolley]

One thing I'd like to comment on...this DCC thing is growing faster than weeds...All the DCC books are hopelessly out of date in a year or so. How is the public supposed to keep up and make intelligent consumer decisions?

[davekelly]

John,

Just read the various threads here. I bet some of these guys have found things out and posted them that aren't even in the books!

[knewsom]

JellyBean,

One other thing to check is that you have not put your BLI loco into shutdown mode. I have done this a couple of times by accident and it acts exactly as you descibed. On my BLI Class A you have to double press the F6 key to make it startup. Programming the decoder or resetting it will not change the disconnect/standby/shutdown. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so very much Knewsom, that did the trick.