Assuming you DO like sound locomotives (about half my engines have it), what is your opinion of the two companies QSI and Soundtraxx as far as which one has the more 'realistic' sound? Obviously you're not going to get great sound from a little 1 inch speaker in an HO scale engine but the sound that Soundtraxx produces seem, to me... to be much better than QSI's
I've been told by people that read it somewhere, meaning it's pretty much a rumor, that QSI uses more generic sounds, cut and paste, to make up the sound files whereas Soundtraxx records the actual engines to produce theirs. I don't know if that is valid or not and I wouldn't have any idea how the two companies actually make their sounds.
What I do know is that I have 3 steam engines with QSI and 2 with Soundtraxx. I had much rather listen to the Soundtraxx locomotives as they seem to be more realistic to me. I have no experience with Soundtraxx diesels.... yet.
Edit:
Cacole says..."I think you should include ESU LokSound in your question. To me, the new LokSound Select decoders have much better sound, but their current selection of available sound schemes is limited."
You're right, I've heard only one LokSound diesel and I thought it was superior to QSI also.
Thanks,
Jarrell
I think you should include ESU LokSound in your question. To me, the new LokSound Select decoders have much better sound, but their current selection of available sound schemes is limited.
I have 2 Steamers with Loksound 3.5 decoders and 4 QSI Steamers. Well first I have to say the 3.5 decoders speaker installation (PCM) is much better. All 6 engines have dual speakers, the QSI engines speakers have no speaker box, while the Loksound, each speaker box is about 3/4 of a inch tall.
I was very happy with the QSI sounds, till I got the Loksound 3.5 engines. Now the QSI engines, well sound like toy's in comparison.
Now, the speaker box can really make a big differences, one of the 3.5's I have was given to me by a member here! Reason, he did not like the sound! He sent me the speaker, which I did not use and got a speaker kit for the engine from Ulrich Models.He all so loaded the proper sound file for the engine.
Low speed control is much better with the Loksound.
Far as is the sound files more realistic for that engine? I have no clue, I have never heard a real Big Boy or Y-6b. But I do like what I hear when I run them!
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken says... 'But I do like what I hear when I run them!"
That's what I mean!
Thanks for the input Ken.
cudaken I have 2 Steamers with Loksound 3.5 decoders and 4 QSI Steamers. Well first I have to say the 3.5 decoders speaker installation (PCM) is much better. All 6 engines have dual speakers, the QSI engines speakers have no speaker box, while the Loksound, each speaker box is about 3/4 of a inch tall. I was very happy with the QSI sounds, till I got the Loksound 3.5 engines. Now the QSI engines, well sound like toy's in comparison. Now, the speaker box can really make a big differences, one of the 3.5's I have was given to me by a member here! Reason, he did not like the sound! He sent me the speaker, which I did not use and got a speaker kit for the engine from Ulrich Models.He all so loaded the proper sound file for the engine. Low speed control is much better with the Loksound. Far as is the sound files more realistic for that engine? I have no clue, I have never heard a real Big Boy or Y-6b. But I do like what I hear when I run them! Cuda Ken
well from the diesel side ,Dave bedard says it best "soundtrax better prime mover sound"..."Qsi better horn sound " I like em both and if I install it well be a soundtraxx ,in my p2k fleet stk Qsi . The stk p2k qsi set up w/2 speakers is very loud & clear and always needs to be turned down. haven't heard a factory soundtraxx install yet to compare,but in my installs it does NOT need to be turned down now for the budget its the digi sdh164 d ,default gp38 sound is good to me for less than half the price...Jerry
Jarrell, if they get the sound files right, it is hard to beat ESU LokSound. Their motion control for locomotives lifting a train is enviable...I think it is the best there is, and I'm pretty sure Tom Stage would agree with me on that one. However, if you tweak the CV's 117-119 (I keep forgetting which ones exactly, but a glance at the manual index will set it straight) in a Tsunami from Sountraxx, you would be amazed at how well they do the same thing! I had a Bachmann J that I couldn't get running well, so I sold it and got a Stealth BLI J. Installed a Tsunami, and it was better. Sort of...had to send it in for warranty repair due to a cracked gear. Even so, not the smoothest engine I have. Then I read on a forum about those CV's and fiddled with them...had nothing to lose. Wow!! That somewhat jerky steamer smoothed right out!
To me, diesels are a toss-up when it comes to the diff between Quantum Revolution and Tsunami. I found them both to do an excellent job in my Genesis SD75M's, although the QSI was loaded specifically with the correct prime mover and K5LA. The Tsunami is more generic, but sounds really good.
My quibble with QSI to include the Revolution is that their steam sounds are largely generic. There is no change in chuff, air let-off, injector, etc. Slow motion control is pretty good, but not up to par with the other two.
Crandell
Sountraxx - Tsunami is it for me! All others, That I have actually heard to know what their manufacturer was, are pretty much "also rans" to very poor.
Tweeking the CV's on the Tsunami Steam sound can usually make anyone happy, regardless, providing you dive into the spirit of CV altering and print out their massive tech ref. manual. Keep copius notes on specific CV data logged that works for you.
I remain stunned at the depth of Tsunami sound from the tiny HOn3 tender speakers on the Blasckstone C-19s and K-27s.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
"My quibble with QSI to include the Revolution is that their steam sounds are largely generic. There is no change in chuff, air let-off, injector, etc. Slow motion control is pretty good, but not up to par with the other two."
That's been my experience also, with steam that is. Haven't had a tsunami diesel yet.
selector Jarrell, if they get the sound files right, it is hard to beat ESU LokSound. Their motion control for locomotives lifting a train is enviable...I think it is the best there is, and I'm pretty sure Tom Stage would agree with me on that one. However, if you tweak the CV's 117-119 (I keep forgetting which ones exactly, but a glance at the manual index will set it straight) in a Tsunami from Sountraxx, you would be amazed at how well they do the same thing! I had a Bachmann J that I couldn't get running well, so I sold it and got a Stealth BLI J. Installed a Tsunami, and it was better. Sort of...had to send it in for warranty repair due to a cracked gear. Even so, not the smoothest engine I have. Then I read on a forum about those CV's and fiddled with them...had nothing to lose. Wow!! That somewhat jerky steamer smoothed right out! To me, diesels are a toss-up when it comes to the diff between Quantum Revolution and Tsunami. I found them both to do an excellent job in my Genesis SD75M's, although the QSI was loaded specifically with the correct prime mover and K5LA. The Tsunami is more generic, but sounds really good. My quibble with QSI to include the Revolution is that their steam sounds are largely generic. There is no change in chuff, air let-off, injector, etc. Slow motion control is pretty good, but not up to par with the other two. Crandell
"Tweeking the CV's on the Tsunami Steam sound can usually make anyone happy, regardless, providing you dive into the spirit of CV altering and print out their massive tech ref. manual. Keep copius notes on specific CV data logged that works for you"
I know what you mean. That's when it pays to have decoder Pro and a computer... :)
My RRCirkits interface died and so I can't use DP right now and I miss it.
narrow gauge nuclear Sountraxx - Tsunami is it for me! All others, That I have actually heard to know what their manufacturer was, are pretty much "also rans" to very poor. Tweeking the CV's on the Tsunami Steam sound can usually make anyone happy, regardless, providing you dive into the spirit of CV altering and print out their massive tech ref. manual. Keep copius notes on specific CV data logged that works for you. I remain stunned at the depth of Tsunami sound from the tiny HOn3 tender speakers on the Blasckstone C-19s and K-27s. Richard
To me the sound quality of QSI and the Tsunami are both very good. I have QSI sound in my BLI 2-10-4 and Mikado, and an NW-2 diesel, and Tsunami in an RS-11 and 2-10-0. I'd say the Tsunami has the advantage of having many more settings and features, like a graphic equalizer, reverb, and different options for horn/whistle and bell. Also, although both have an "automagic" brake squeal sound, the QSI one isn't adjustable and only comes on if you go up to around 40-50 MPH. The Tsunami can be adjusted so it will come on even at much slower speeds. Since I rarely run over 30 MPH, that's a plus.
To make this a realistic "fair" comparison...............................
1. Has anyone purchased or sampled QSI's new "TITAN" sound decoder?
2. Has anyone purchased or sampled LokSound's new "V4.0" sound decoder?
So far, the comments posted are in reference to units that have been on the market for a while, including QSI's Revolution.
From my limited understanding, the new QSI and LokSound units feature noticeable improvements and will supposedly give Sountraxx's Tsunami a serious run for the money. Would be helpful to read/hear input.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
For diesels - I have one Tsunami and it will be my last. QSI or Loksound from here on. The annoying startup lag, the inability to get the motor to rev before the loco moves without resorting to manual notching, and the lack of basic CV2/6/5 control for speed matching, not to mention the really weak horns, make the Tsunami the also-ran in my book. If QSI uses 'generic' sounds then why do they bother sending people out to record things like the last running Winton 201 prime mover (ok so it's in a boat, not a loco...)? Their first gen sounds may indeed have been electronically speeded up, although the only diesel with one I heard was an Atlas Trainmaster and it did not sound like it was just simulated beyond idle. But they are now on their third generation of decoders. Loksound is on theith 5th. Both QSI and Loksound have superior motor control to Tsunami.
QSI and Loksound also both allow the sound sets to be reprogrammed. Even without the complexity of actually trying to build your own sound files (NOT an easy task unless you happen to be an audio engineer), which is mostly a benefit for retailers but still a customer benefit as well, if you want to change the loco you've installed the decoder in. The Loksound steam sounds in my PCM locos are very good, and you couldn;t ask for better motor control - and that's now a version of their decoder that is 2 generations old. I haven't heard a Select or v4 yet so I don;t knwo what they are like, but surely they have to be at least as good as the 3.5. I did install a Rev-U for someone, but at the time I only had a very short test track to run it on so I could only verify basic functionality, not fully try out all the features. Sounds were solid and clear, and I was able to tweak the motor control to get it to run with a second loco that did not have BEMF. Like the Trainmaster with an OEM Q1 decoder, it was easy to get the loco to load up as if starting a heavy train, or just idle away as if running light.
I've had no problems programming any of them with my Digitrax equipment, no booster necessary, so that whole thing is a non-issue to me.
Youtube videos I've watched, QSI Alco sound MUCH more like an Alco prime mover than the Tsunami version, but of course without knowing the details of which speaker and enclosure used, there's too many variables.
STeam may be just the opposite, but I was always impressed by the sounds of the early Broadway locos with QSI sound that I ran. The first Tsunami I heard at the NMRA show at the Sountraxx booth was in one of their Blackstone narrow gauge steamers and the bell and whistle were practically inaudible. ANd before someone says "big convention center", over at the Loksound booth their sound decoders were easily heard and clear, not distorted from overdriving the speakers.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I would also like to hear from anyone that has purchased the newer versions of QSI and LokSound. It is interesting that the reason I brought this up for discussion is that I was listening to my BLI light mikado, purchased several years ago with factory installed QSI sound, and it is the one that I find most annoying. It reminds me more of an old Singer sewing machine. I usually run it with the sound off. But someone in this thread mentioned they have a light mikado and like it. It has to be a later version sound than mine.. :)
AntonioFP45 To make this a realistic "fair" comparison............................... 1. Has anyone purchased or sampled QSI's new "TITAN" sound decoder? 2. Has anyone purchased or sampled LokSound's new "V4.0" sound decoder? So far, the comments posted are in reference to units that have been on the market for a while, including QSI's Revolution. From my limited understanding, the new QSI and LokSound units feature noticeable improvements and will supposedly give Sountraxx's Tsunami a serious run for the money. Would be helpful to read/hear input.
Randy, just for the record I'm not anti QSI or LokSound. I have an Atlas dash 8 with QSI sound that I think is very good. Love to hear it idle especially. Don't tell my steam buddies I said that. I haven't had any experience with Tsunami diesels at all. I was mainly basing my like/dislike on the two Bachmann Spectrums, make that 3... I forget the Shay sometimes. But the 4-4-0 and the Consolidation sound, to my ear is very good and I have no problem with speed control at all.. knock on wood. My main dislike is with my BLI light mikado, don't care for it's sound at all. I'll have to find the box and see what QSI version it is.
rrinker For diesels - I have one Tsunami and it will be my last. QSI or Loksound from here on. The annoying startup lag, the inability to get the motor to rev before the loco moves without resorting to manual notching, and the lack of basic CV2/6/5 control for speed matching, not to mention the really weak horns, make the Tsunami the also-ran in my book. If QSI uses 'generic' sounds then why do they bother sending people out to record things like the last running Winton 201 prime mover (ok so it's in a boat, not a loco...)? Their first gen sounds may indeed have been electronically speeded up, although the only diesel with one I heard was an Atlas Trainmaster and it did not sound like it was just simulated beyond idle. But they are now on their third generation of decoders. Loksound is on theith 5th. Both QSI and Loksound have superior motor control to Tsunami. QSI and Loksound also both allow the sound sets to be reprogrammed. Even without the complexity of actually trying to build your own sound files (NOT an easy task unless you happen to be an audio engineer), which is mostly a benefit for retailers but still a customer benefit as well, if you want to change the loco you've installed the decoder in. The Loksound steam sounds in my PCM locos are very good, and you couldn;t ask for better motor control - and that's now a version of their decoder that is 2 generations old. I haven't heard a Select or v4 yet so I don;t knwo what they are like, but surely they have to be at least as good as the 3.5. I did install a Rev-U for someone, but at the time I only had a very short test track to run it on so I could only verify basic functionality, not fully try out all the features. Sounds were solid and clear, and I was able to tweak the motor control to get it to run with a second loco that did not have BEMF. Like the Trainmaster with an OEM Q1 decoder, it was easy to get the loco to load up as if starting a heavy train, or just idle away as if running light. I've had no problems programming any of them with my Digitrax equipment, no booster necessary, so that whole thing is a non-issue to me. Youtube videos I've watched, QSI Alco sound MUCH more like an Alco prime mover than the Tsunami version, but of course without knowing the details of which speaker and enclosure used, there's too many variables. STeam may be just the opposite, but I was always impressed by the sounds of the early Broadway locos with QSI sound that I ran. The first Tsunami I heard at the NMRA show at the Sountraxx booth was in one of their Blackstone narrow gauge steamers and the bell and whistle were practically inaudible. ANd before someone says "big convention center", over at the Loksound booth their sound decoders were easily heard and clear, not distorted from overdriving the speakers. --Randy
Oh, the motor drive in the Tsunami works just fine, it's as good as many motor-only decoders, it's just that the others are even better. Unlike the old LC ones, I relegated that to sound only in a dummy.
I'm pretty much sold on Tsunami sound, and personally, I've never had a problem with steam whistle and bell volume. Maybe it's the speaker placement that helps?
Tsunami low speed control leaves alot to be desired, though. ESU equipped units have amazing low speed control. Sure, you can fiddle with CVs on a Tsunami, but why can't they make it right out of the box like everyone else?
My one wish for Tsunami is that they'd have a 567 12cylinder prime mover for my switchers...
Used Loksound until Tsunami came along, and they tended to "scramble" their soundfiles over bad track. Very annoying.
Only owned one QSI - a Trainmaster, and it sounded like a tugboat on speed. Horrible, and a big joke.
If Tsunami just did a bit more tweaking of their speed controls, they'd be untouchable.
Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.
H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.
Well,
I harken back to my previous question...............
Has anyone here heard the new QSI Titan and/or new LokSound V4.0?
From what I've read on websites, QSI put a lot of work into the new Titan regarding sound schemes and getting rid of the "white noise" some modelers were complaining about. More horns and prime movers are available.
LokSounds new unit has a more powerful amplifier which, supposedly, was in response to some complaints that sound fidelity was excellent but volumes were low. I'm not an expert, just passing on what I gleaned off of several forums.
But as the saying goes, you don't know until the rubber hits the road.
I'm excited about both decoders and am only holding off until I finish my metalizer research/swatch projects which is quite time consuming. But I'm looking forward to getting sound inside of my P2K E-units.
CP guy in TX I'm pretty much sold on Tsunami sound, and personally, I've never had a problem with steam whistle and bell volume. Maybe it's the speaker placement that helps? Tsunami low speed control leaves alot to be desired, though. ESU equipped units have amazing low speed control. Sure, you can fiddle with CVs on a Tsunami, but why can't they make it right out of the box like everyone else? My one wish for Tsunami is that they'd have a 567 12cylinder prime mover for my switchers... Used Loksound until Tsunami came along, and they tended to "scramble" their soundfiles over bad track. Very annoying. Only owned one QSI - a Trainmaster, and it sounded like a tugboat on speed. Horrible, and a big joke. If Tsunami just did a bit more tweaking of their speed controls, they'd be untouchable.
The opposed piston Fairbanks-Morse motors WERE used in boats. It sounds like no other loco prime mover, so it SHOULD be vastly different than an EMD or GE. There are several Youtube videos of a prototype FM switcher starting and operating, and the Atlas Trainmaster matches that very well.
My main dislike is with my BLI light mikado, don't care for it's sound at all. I'll have to find the box and see what QSI version it is.
Jarrell, I have a Heavy Mike from BLI and the sound is awful. But, it is not the decoder fault IMO, it is the small tender. What I am planing to do is install good speakers and sound boxes in a freight car and use them and not the tender speakers.
I am a Audiophile, and when I give advices to a person getting started on limited funds but the money in the speakers then up grade as you can.
Case in point, a friend has a Big Boy with a Tsunami decoder, single speaker and no sound box. I was really disappointed when I heard here at the house. My Big Boy with the Loksound 3.5 just blew it away in sound quality.
Here is how my Loksound 3.5 speakers are set up. Note, this is how my speakers are set up, but not my tender. I got the picture off Ulrich Models website. My 3.5 uses the 21 pin connector on the main board.
Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
IMO improve the speakers before you bash the decoder.
I will have to go along with the speaker/baffle commenting. One can't never make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Sound is a function of all components, not just one. The baffle or "sound box", as some are wont to call it, is a part of the experiment. The best speaker layed out on a table will not do well. The best sound decoder with the finest sound will not be presented well using a crummy in a $1.00, 1-inch diameter speaker out of an old transistor radio, even in a fine baffle arrangement.
We have to be careful, as noted by many respondents here, that we are comparing apples with apples. To my way of thinking this is truly impossible within this discussion.
Unless someone is willing to try every current iteration of sound board offered in a fixed system or engine baffle that is known to be excellent, we will not be able to learn which sound board is best. This whole discussion is more related to the original manufacturers presentation of the entire sound system in any given engine. Too many variables, including one's own ability to be satisfied with what the brain interprets as a "good sound", are in play.
I can only say my original comments......within my experience, Tsunami steam sound, as presented in the amazing speaker/baffle combination within the Blackstone C-19 and K-27 engines, is the best sound I have ever heard issued from any sound steam locomotive as it works out perfectly for the size of these engines in a real life scenario. I don't do diesel so I can't begin to comment beyond, I have yet to hear a diesel sound I really liked on my friends layouts or at shows, train meets, etc.
Again, it is pretty much the finished presentation based on time and effort spent by the manufacturer of any specific piece of sound equipped motive power and the human perception here that makes one rave about or rail against what is in effect a "sound package"