I had mostly powered units and had a revelation. Once again using Stewart locos as an example. I want an ABBA, ABBB, or AABBA set for the looks of it. A Stewart AB unit will pull about 55 cars and an ABB set will pull more than 65 cars. The layout max is about 45 cars. Since two units can pull the max size train it was a waste of money and effort to put decoders into the extra units. It was also a on going waste of power having them sitting there slurping current all the time. The AABBA set for a Raton Pass style Super Chief was really a waste since there were only 13 cars in the train.
My solution was to depower two of the units in each set. I used the extra space to put in bigger better speakers for the sound system as below:
I'm a big fan of Dummies in HO scale.
Much cheaper than powered units and generally HO Diesels are strong pullers so you don't need the extra engine until you get to the point where maybe 3 engines look right anyway. 2 powered and a dummy.
And I've done some of the other things mentioned here.
At my old club, I put a wireless camera in the nose of an old Athearn BB F7 Dummy and pushed it around with a second super series F7. The video was displayed on a television. It was one of the most popular things we did and would have been impossible in a powered unit.
In N scale however, when I was doing Nscale, I hated dummies. Even a good puller in Nscale is a dog compared to HO, so you can't afford adding dummies the same way.
Something similar to this may have been mentioned already, but here goes...
I find dummies quite useful; I model late 1990s Conrail in Upstate New York, and on occasion you would see a westbound power move with as many as 14 or so locomotives running light (since more traffic moved east than moved west)... Dummies are quite useful when modeling these moves since only two or three units need to be powered! Also at times, you'll see a switcher locomotive or two being moved in a road freight dead-in-tow behind larger road power; to simulate this I just place a switcher dummy behind the powered road units...
Dummies have their uses, yes, but as has already been said- you don't like them, you don't have to use them...
My little 4x10' HO layout may be small, and I may not have enough money to make it a masterpiece, but that doesn't make me any less of a modeler!
High Speed Metal Products Review:
http://reviews.ebay.com/Beware-of-High-Speed-brand-N-scale-engines-and-cars?ugid=10000000012107188
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
TA462
I like them because when I'm playing in my room the wheels don't drag on the carpet
you in canada?
Some times an engine is so small I do not have enough skill to fit a motor in it. Like my scratch built vertical boiler HOn30 Climax. The tank car trailing the Climax is motorized by an N gauge diesel mechanisim
Peter Smith, Memphis
BRVRR I have a few dummy locos on my layout. All of them have sound decoders and speakers in them. They are all paired with a powered unit and connected with Miniatronics two wire connectors. This doubles the electrical pickup and virtually eliminates the stutter so common with sound systems. NOTE: The photo below was taken before the units were electrically connected. Very few of my trains are more than 14-cars long because of my layouts size. One powered unit is enough for that. You tell me which of the locos below is the dummy! An old photo but it gets the point across.
I have a few dummy locos on my layout. All of them have sound decoders and speakers in them. They are all paired with a powered unit and connected with Miniatronics two wire connectors. This doubles the electrical pickup and virtually eliminates the stutter so common with sound systems. NOTE: The photo below was taken before the units were electrically connected.
Very few of my trains are more than 14-cars long because of my layouts size. One powered unit is enough for that.
You tell me which of the locos below is the dummy!
An old photo but it gets the point across.
Allen,Taking a guess I would say the one on the left is a "Super Powered" Athearn F7 while the one on the right is the pull along.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have a couple of those "high speed" N scale dummies. Don't know where I got one, and the other was stuck in a massive collection of my friend's Legos. They're not even proper dummy units, since they're actually not operational...
Back when a single engine would draw a half to a full amp on its own, dummies were needed to have multiple engines without overloading the power source. Hobbytown managed to find a way around it in their HO kits, which they called "multi-drive". Hobbytown's chassis already uses a shaft underneath the frame to drive the second truck, so they simply added further shaft extensions to power trucks in permanently coupled units, and used an O sized motor to run the setup. They could pull a house down.
_________________________________________________________________
All the "High Speed" labelled stuff is junk from a promotion years ago. Do yourself a favor and learn something about models before you buy anything else on eBay.
ok makes sens
BroadwayLION,
Thanks, I'll take that to heart, words of wisdom man!
Soldered Frame:
The dummy was the dummy who purchased the dummy locomotive, on ebay, without first asking about the details. LOL sorry, had to say that...
If the seller did not indicate this in his ad, you have a right to report him, and file a claim with ebay. "Item does not match description".
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
the dummy is on the left RIGHT LOL
mortor got it but still when i got the engine off ebay the seller did not say that it had no motor
all it said was ("HI SPEED SOUTHERN PACIFIC ENGINE AND TWO CARS") so i was a bit PIST OFF
ChadLRyan While I almost can't type correctly cuz I burnt my fingertipz trying to solder up some .060 sheet brass & some .100 channel to scratchbuild...
While I almost can't type correctly cuz I burnt my fingertipz trying to solder up some .060 sheet brass & some .100 channel to scratchbuild...
LION does not care what you were soldering.
LION's First Rule of soldering: Look at the soldering iron before picking it up.
LION's Second Rule of Soldering: Adjust eyeglasses before picking up the soldering iron.
LION's Third Rule of Soldering: If you drop the soldering iron, do NOT try to catch it.
I have some neuropathy in my toes and fingers, so I can get burned before I know that I am actually touching the soldering iron, therefore I keep it well out of reach, usually about three feet from where I am working. When I want it I need to look, see it and then reach for it.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I so guess the point is! Some people still find a use for dummies.(other than the trash can).
RMax
It is pretty neat to read all these comments in this thread.
While I almost can't type correctly cuz I burnt my fingertipz trying to solder up some .060 sheet brass & some .100 channel to scratchbuild a frame for a shell I was painting on.. It'll be a dummy untill I plant it with motor leads, or another doner chassis.. Although I bought a cheap loco for the (powered) chassis, I started to get to like'n the one I bought, so I have been building another chassis. It is sort of a two sided coin; frustrating that I can't seem to find the brass stock that I know I have, but rewarding when I fit parts that actually work & match their intended locations!! I guess, & hope, that I can call myself a 'Real Model Builder!'
n scale steamer -
To understand the logic of "Dummy" units you have to put them in context. They were very common when I started model railroading and way before my time as well. Back in the 60's when I was a kid a new powered Athearn locomotive was affordable at about $8.00 to $10.00 some were even cheaper. I could buy a "Dummy" unit for about $3.00 to $4.00 and "double" my roster. When you have a 4 X 8 railroad empire you don't really need more pulling power so "Dummies" were a great thing for anyone wanting to save money. I don't have many left now and at the cost of todays locomotives the small savings of a "Dummy" wouldn't make sense. One other place I did like them was before DCC I used to use them as "Mid Train" helpers on long trains so if my "Lead" Units and "Mid Train" units were in different electrical blocks it wouldn't be a problem. So you see they did have a point in their day.
"I've spent most of my money and time on trains, the rest I've just wasted."
I have a few non-powered units. Most were bought for the shells so later & can turn them into powered units. I bought a BB non-powered B&M GP40-2 from my old LHS. Brought it home & switched out the drivetrain from a UP GEEP & voila! a powered B&N GP40-2. Now the UP is a leaser for my railroad.
Bought a CPR AC4400 off of Kijiji, paid $10 for it & buddy delivered it to me in Whitby from Hamilton.
All i need now is a doner for the drivetrain.
I always have a want & desire for non-powered units, think of the spare parts one can have for just such an emergency!
Just my 2 cents
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Out of 27 units I own, six of them are dummies. Some of my dummies look just as good as the powered ones. If you run light-engine moves, dummies come in handy. If you like running lots of units, having dummy units is good. Running six powered units on one train could tax your power supply if you don't have DCC. NS 9155 is a dummy unit. Earl...
I have about a dozen dummy locos. Some were converted to dummies because the mechanisms ran poorly. I have a mixed bag of them (SD40s, GP7s, RS3s, an FB-2, an SW1200RS, and an S-2).
BRAKIE Look at it this way..Which a better a $45.00 pull along or a working locomotive?
Look at it this way..Which a better a $45.00 pull along or a working locomotive?
That would be best for you totally depend on what effect you are looking for. Like most other things, the use of dummies are tradeoffs.
It can be a tradeoff between price and appearance (cost less, create appearance of having more engines - you can buy an A-B-B-A set of two powered and two dummies for the cost of a powered A-B-A set, and if the B unit always is moved with an A unit anyways, the lack of a motor in the B set matters little for the kind of train lengths most people run on their model railroad anyways).
It can be used to create more traction on the A unit, if you can relocate e.g. the decoder and speaker from a sound equipped A unit to the B unit, and fill that space in the A unit with more weight instead. At the cost of needing to keep the A unit and the B unit permanently coupled.
And so on and so forth. There is no simple "best" here. It is, like most other things in design, a set of tradeoffs. It is not a given that using a dummy will always be good or always be bad under all circumstance on all layouts.
Me, I don't use dummies. For me, with the kind of space I have available and the kind of theme I like (urban switching with diesels in the late 1950s), the core design issue is to keep train lengths short. When trains are 5-8 cars long, adding an extra engine is (for me) a waste of space I could have used for an extra freight car instead.
For me, if I need more space in the engine or more traction, it makes more sense to buy a slightly larger and heavier engine instead of having two engines. E.g. to use one RS-3 instead of two NW2s.
But that's me. For you or for someone else, the tradeoff may be different.
Smile, Stein
I see some of you have mentioned putting sound and other DCC equipment in them.
It came to me that they would make an excellent place to put your minicam and power for it, all in one unit that would look natural at the front of your train.
Have fun,
Richard
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
It depends on your finances whether $60 is "just a tad" cheaper. In either case, you are not very likely to be running a cabless powered B unit around on it's own a lot ....
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I would grit my teeth and buy the powered B unit so I can have a power set instead of another pull along.
I second what RMax says...
Excellent models for the price of rolling stock, lets you (me) practice paint schemes, doesn't cost any electrical draw (unless you want it to), & makes an excellent consist.. More than likely the dummies have everything but a motor & some gears to make them into a real 'working' machine. at times they are better than just a 'shell' project, especially if you were going to replace everything anyway..
I wish there were more dummies other than Athearn & F B-Units available.. SD's & GP's detailed up like Kato & Atlas would be incredible!!!! In my fleet who would know if they are powered or not, one or two powered locos could pull (my) entire layout length.. Add a couple dummies & it would look neat! I guess I'm on the side of do not Poo Poo dummies.. (have any of you seen my units run?) Prolly not, as I have not seen yours, & if I did, I could not tell you who, or what, was actually powered up & tractive...
The upper one was a dummy, got detailed, Cannon cab, & motorized with 'Ernst' gears & an A-Line motor.. It needs a limiting resistor (DC) & much weathering. It turned out a much better performer than the lower factory one. However, it did cost a little more in time, effort, & parts. But it rolls, pulls hard, & does not complain. Dummy to Top Gun!
I buy dummies for around $10 to $15. That's far less money than a powered unit with decoder. I think the least expensive powered unit would be a Bachmann at around $40. The dummy also takes no power from the layout which means I can have more powered units running. I also like undec dummies. I can experiment with painting and weathering without worries of messing up details and fancy paint.
So if anyone is going to throw them in the dumpster just send them to me. :)
BRAKIE Dummy engines is a waste of hobby dollars since most cost a tad less then a powered locomotive which is ten times ten better then a dummy since you can consist them or run 'em solo.A dummy needs to be pulled like a freight car.IMHO they're fit for one thing-locomotives in a scrap line.
Dummy engines is a waste of hobby dollars since most cost a tad less then a powered locomotive which is ten times ten better then a dummy since you can consist them or run 'em solo.A dummy needs to be pulled like a freight car.IMHO they're fit for one thing-locomotives in a scrap line.
A Stewart F3B powered - $105, an F3B unpowered - $45. Sum $150. A powered F3A + a powered F3B - sum $210. Difference in price $60. If you want an A-B-B-A consistm the difference in price is $120..
An F7 A/B pair with the A unit powered, B unit a dummy - $160. A powered F7A plus a powered F7B - $220. Difference in price is $60.