What is the point of dummy engines ?
no moter !!!!!!!!!!!!
I HATE THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Easy way to make it look like you have more power.
No need to speed match motors, will match speed with anything they are hitched to.
Good for children that like to be the power of the train.
They may have a few other redeaming features, but they sure aren't very good pullers.
Have fun,
Richard
n scale steamer no moter !!!!!!!!!!!!
(edited)
At least now you know what a "dummy engine" is - it is an engine without a motor (BTW - note the correct spelling of the word "motor").
Dummy engines are quite a bit cheaper than engines with a motor, and they are used purely mainly for appearance - e.g. to make it look like you have two engines at the head of your train, even though only one of them is actually pulling, or to allow you to have more engines parked at an engine terminal, even though several of them are not runnable.
Stein
n scale steamer I HATE THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Prototype Dummies:
Also called a "Steam Dummy" it is a steam engine dressed as a street car used to pull street cars without having to look like a steam engine.
Railroads also have "B" units which are full size locomotives sans the cab position.This is different from a SLUG which has no motor but draws its power from the locomotives that it is attached to. It is usually filled with weights of some sort to provide better traction.
Railroads also run remote units, which look like any other unit but are either operated from the ground, or may be attached elsewhere in the consist, providing distributed power. The old helpers were not really distributed power since they had their own engine crews.
Finally we get to my favorite: the New York City Subway. In the old days of the BMT and the IRT trains had both "Powered Cars" and "Trailer Cars". They looked the same to the passengers (other than rail fans of course) but some cars were not powered, instead they struggled up the grades. Since the R-1s on the IND all cars were all powered. Some had only one motor per truck, but now all axles are powered.
Later they were set up in pairs with drawbars between them. Only the outside cabs were outfitted with operating controls. The inside cabs had the door controls only. While both cars are powered the share certain equipment, ie. the air compressor was only aboard the odd numbered cars. (or vice verssa, the LION cannot remember such details--detail being at de other end of de cat.) Now the cars are delivered in four and five car sets, permanently coupled, and generally run in consists of eight or ten cars depending on the line upon which they are being used.
LION used to use two powered locomotives with one dummy B unit in the middle, all coupled by draw bars, and all three units wired for power pickup.
Another good use for dummies on a model layout is for static display, perhaps in a shop or on a scrap line, or maybe just to be show off in the engine yard to make it look like you own more locomotives than you have.
Now DO NOT ask the LION how many locomotives he has. He does not know. Some work, some do not. Some are dummies and others just flat out broken. Some are literately broken into pieces and parked on a scrap line. Do you count powered subway cars as locomotives? LION runs six car subway trains, but some have two power cars and others only one.
Oh well, perhaps it takes a dummy to know one.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Rather odd way to start a thread that promotes good, helpful discussions don't you think?
Anyway, for those of us that model diesels, dummy engines or "non-powered" scale locomotives offer a very nice option in the DCC-sound realm, since there is plenty of room for speakers.
I have a pair of Proto 2000 E7B locomotives that I plan on installing sound in using the new QSI Titan decoder and the new, popular "Low-Bass" speakers. I hope to replicate the sound of twin 567 diesels under the carbody.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Dummy engines also can provide:
They have their place...
Dan
n scale steamer ?!! @#$!!@#@#%^& the heck is the point of dummy engines ?
?!! @#$!!@#@#%^& the heck is the point of dummy engines ?
Knowing that DUMMY engines are missing a MOTOR , I thought that you could use one of these.
Truck.
Don't use them then. I have only two on my layout. Two F7B's on behind a powered F3A and a powered F3B and F7B. Five F units looks like a lot of head-end power though only three are pulling.
That's cheating.
I love them! Do not have to buy and install decoders for them! Far less expensive.
RMax
I have an old Proto 2000, Alco PA that I had installed a sound unit and put the speaker under the large fan. It also has a oscillating light package. The motor had died in the unit and and would be more expensive to replaced than buying another PA.
Here is a YouTube video of my sound PA heading a passenger train.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=UueRH2q3cuw
Prototype railroads frequently run double-headed consists, even when the power requirements don't call for that much power. It provides the ability to turn the engines without the need of a turntable, wye or reverse loop. So, it's a way of giving our model railroads a prototype look for less cost.
I've got 3 dummy engines on my layout, an F7A, an F7B and a GP9. They are all old Athearns, neutered rubber-band-drive models. I added sound-only decoders to all of them. The F7A uses a decoder with function outputs, so it's got a headlight, too.
A F7 A-B-A consist looks sharp pulling a string of streamlined passenger cars. That's the bottom line for me.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
You know I felt the same way up to a few months ago. But I have changed my mind some what. Engines I have are pretty good pullers, my longer trains are between 30 to 45 cars can be pulled by just two engines.
So I have added a few dummy's to my line up. They are cheaper inmost case. I have use one that the motor had failed and have not re-powered yet. There is no speed matching, no decoder to buy and do not draw any power so you can run more trains.
There are a few reasons.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Dummy engines is a waste of hobby dollars since most cost a tad less then a powered locomotive which is ten times ten better then a dummy since you can consist them or run 'em solo.A dummy needs to be pulled like a freight car.IMHO they're fit for one thing-locomotives in a scrap line.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Dummy engines is a waste of hobby dollars since most cost a tad less then a powered locomotive which is ten times ten better then a dummy since you can consist them or run 'em solo.A dummy needs to be pulled like a freight car.IMHO they're fit for one thing-locomotives in a scrap line.
A Stewart F3B powered - $105, an F3B unpowered - $45. Sum $150. A powered F3A + a powered F3B - sum $210. Difference in price $60. If you want an A-B-B-A consistm the difference in price is $120..
An F7 A/B pair with the A unit powered, B unit a dummy - $160. A powered F7A plus a powered F7B - $220. Difference in price is $60.
It depends on your finances whether $60 is "just a tad" cheaper. In either case, you are not very likely to be running a cabless powered B unit around on it's own a lot ....
Smile, Stein
I buy dummies for around $10 to $15. That's far less money than a powered unit with decoder. I think the least expensive powered unit would be a Bachmann at around $40. The dummy also takes no power from the layout which means I can have more powered units running. I also like undec dummies. I can experiment with painting and weathering without worries of messing up details and fancy paint.
So if anyone is going to throw them in the dumpster just send them to me. :)
I second what RMax says...
Excellent models for the price of rolling stock, lets you (me) practice paint schemes, doesn't cost any electrical draw (unless you want it to), & makes an excellent consist.. More than likely the dummies have everything but a motor & some gears to make them into a real 'working' machine. at times they are better than just a 'shell' project, especially if you were going to replace everything anyway..
I wish there were more dummies other than Athearn & F B-Units available.. SD's & GP's detailed up like Kato & Atlas would be incredible!!!! In my fleet who would know if they are powered or not, one or two powered locos could pull (my) entire layout length.. Add a couple dummies & it would look neat! I guess I'm on the side of do not Poo Poo dummies.. (have any of you seen my units run?) Prolly not, as I have not seen yours, & if I did, I could not tell you who, or what, was actually powered up & tractive...
The upper one was a dummy, got detailed, Cannon cab, & motorized with 'Ernst' gears & an A-Line motor.. It needs a limiting resistor (DC) & much weathering. It turned out a much better performer than the lower factory one. However, it did cost a little more in time, effort, & parts. But it rolls, pulls hard, & does not complain. Dummy to Top Gun!
-------------------
Look at it this way..Which a better a $45.00 pull along or a working locomotive?
I would grit my teeth and buy the powered B unit so I can have a power set instead of another pull along.
I have a few dummy locos on my layout. All of them have sound decoders and speakers in them. They are all paired with a powered unit and connected with Miniatronics two wire connectors. This doubles the electrical pickup and virtually eliminates the stutter so common with sound systems. NOTE: The photo below was taken before the units were electrically connected.
Very few of my trains are more than 14-cars long because of my layouts size. One powered unit is enough for that.
You tell me which of the locos below is the dummy!
An old photo but it gets the point across.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
I see some of you have mentioned putting sound and other DCC equipment in them.
It came to me that they would make an excellent place to put your minicam and power for it, all in one unit that would look natural at the front of your train.
BRAKIE Look at it this way..Which a better a $45.00 pull along or a working locomotive?
That would be best for you totally depend on what effect you are looking for. Like most other things, the use of dummies are tradeoffs.
It can be a tradeoff between price and appearance (cost less, create appearance of having more engines - you can buy an A-B-B-A set of two powered and two dummies for the cost of a powered A-B-A set, and if the B unit always is moved with an A unit anyways, the lack of a motor in the B set matters little for the kind of train lengths most people run on their model railroad anyways).
It can be used to create more traction on the A unit, if you can relocate e.g. the decoder and speaker from a sound equipped A unit to the B unit, and fill that space in the A unit with more weight instead. At the cost of needing to keep the A unit and the B unit permanently coupled.
And so on and so forth. There is no simple "best" here. It is, like most other things in design, a set of tradeoffs. It is not a given that using a dummy will always be good or always be bad under all circumstance on all layouts.
Me, I don't use dummies. For me, with the kind of space I have available and the kind of theme I like (urban switching with diesels in the late 1950s), the core design issue is to keep train lengths short. When trains are 5-8 cars long, adding an extra engine is (for me) a waste of space I could have used for an extra freight car instead.
For me, if I need more space in the engine or more traction, it makes more sense to buy a slightly larger and heavier engine instead of having two engines. E.g. to use one RS-3 instead of two NW2s.
But that's me. For you or for someone else, the tradeoff may be different.
I have about a dozen dummy locos. Some were converted to dummies because the mechanisms ran poorly. I have a mixed bag of them (SD40s, GP7s, RS3s, an FB-2, an SW1200RS, and an S-2).
Out of 27 units I own, six of them are dummies. Some of my dummies look just as good as the powered ones. If you run light-engine moves, dummies come in handy. If you like running lots of units, having dummy units is good. Running six powered units on one train could tax your power supply if you don't have DCC. NS 9155 is a dummy unit. Earl...
I have a few non-powered units. Most were bought for the shells so later & can turn them into powered units. I bought a BB non-powered B&M GP40-2 from my old LHS. Brought it home & switched out the drivetrain from a UP GEEP & voila! a powered B&N GP40-2. Now the UP is a leaser for my railroad.
Bought a CPR AC4400 off of Kijiji, paid $10 for it & buddy delivered it to me in Whitby from Hamilton.
All i need now is a doner for the drivetrain.
I always have a want & desire for non-powered units, think of the spare parts one can have for just such an emergency!
Just my 2 cents
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
n scale steamer -
To understand the logic of "Dummy" units you have to put them in context. They were very common when I started model railroading and way before my time as well. Back in the 60's when I was a kid a new powered Athearn locomotive was affordable at about $8.00 to $10.00 some were even cheaper. I could buy a "Dummy" unit for about $3.00 to $4.00 and "double" my roster. When you have a 4 X 8 railroad empire you don't really need more pulling power so "Dummies" were a great thing for anyone wanting to save money. I don't have many left now and at the cost of todays locomotives the small savings of a "Dummy" wouldn't make sense. One other place I did like them was before DCC I used to use them as "Mid Train" helpers on long trains so if my "Lead" Units and "Mid Train" units were in different electrical blocks it wouldn't be a problem. So you see they did have a point in their day.
"I've spent most of my money and time on trains, the rest I've just wasted."
It is pretty neat to read all these comments in this thread.
While I almost can't type correctly cuz I burnt my fingertipz trying to solder up some .060 sheet brass & some .100 channel to scratchbuild a frame for a shell I was painting on.. It'll be a dummy untill I plant it with motor leads, or another doner chassis.. Although I bought a cheap loco for the (powered) chassis, I started to get to like'n the one I bought, so I have been building another chassis. It is sort of a two sided coin; frustrating that I can't seem to find the brass stock that I know I have, but rewarding when I fit parts that actually work & match their intended locations!! I guess, & hope, that I can call myself a 'Real Model Builder!'