Any advice or comments will be greatly appreciated.
I'm going to Johns Hopkins in mid November. I will be in the Baltimore and Washington D.C. are for a few days. I'd like to hear from locals or other knowledgeable people there about what there is to see and do. Museums, public layouts, club open houses, and train stores.. Both Scale and Tinplate. I am an NMRA member.
I have been to the area once in '99. I went to the B&O Museum and if possible want to return. I have been to the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (was disappointed with the museum just on the mall after spending a lot of time as a kid at the Wright-Patterson Museum, Grandma lived there I had no idea Allen McClelland lived there until he had torn the V&O down and Grandma has since passed) and the American History Museum (Southern Ps-4 1401) and probably will go back to that museum. I will be there mid week so I realize some options may not be available.
Feel free to PM me if there is maybe more detail than belongs in a thread.
There is a second Air & Space Museum building out at Dulles Airport, but if you were disappointed with the Air and Space Museum I can't imagine what your museum standard must be.
You didn't mention WHEN you will be there, but Oct 29 & 30 there is a large model railroad show at the MD state fairgrounds in Timonium, MD. There is a light rail stop at the fairgrounds gate.
There is no way to list all the things there are to see and do in DC and Baltimore in this thread.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
B&O Museum, National Aquarium, & Fells Point in Baltimore. Canton Railroad, Patabsco & Back River + the steel mill/ship yard. There's lots of railfanning to be had.
When I first went to Baltimore in 1980, only my friend and I had any interest in the city being rail fans. It was pretty dismal. My wife and I stayed in Baltimore on our way to Virginia and really had a great time.
I know it may sound hokey, but we were glad that we didn't have to wait long to get in the Cheesecake Factory. Great restaurants abound. Go on Travel Channel's website. There's even a bar that serves unlimited bacon during happy hour.
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Mike Kieran
Port Able Railway
I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.
The Air & Space annex has much more room and much more stuff than the museum on the mall, so they have more of the collection displayed, and are expanding.
A seldom seen museum is the US Postal Museum, right next to Union Station in DC. Some really interesting stuff in there, including an RPO car you can walk through. The waterfront in Baltimore has lots of things to see.
Inner harbor in Baltimore is interesting,National Aquarium, WW !! sub, old frigate, water bus ride , many eateries. Probably more but it's been a few years since I was there. I believe MB Klein has a their store on the north side.
I forgot about the submarine! That was wild. I can't even imagine being in such a confining space for months at a time.
Phoebe Vet There is a second Air & Space Museum building out at Dulles Airport, but if you were disappointed with the Air and Space Museum I can't imagine what your museum standard must be.
NASM really needs a facelift. A lot of displays are old and in disrepair. The NMUSAF makes NASM look like a pathetic joke. As far as raw numbers of aircraft, the gap isn't really that big, but what NMUSAF has on site is amazing. And its huge. Like three times the size of NASM. They built the Udvar-Hazy annex to house the Enola Gay, the Concorde, SR-71, and Space Shuttle. One of the three "hangars" at NMUSAF is so huge that they have a B-2, B-1B, B-36, C-130, and some other bombers and transports in one section. With the space to surround them with dozens of fighters. You can do an entire tour of the museum online now too. Its probably the best museum that almost no one seems to know about.
Yes, I can vouche for the Aquarium at the Inner Harbor in Baltimore - awesome.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
NittanyLion NASM really needs a facelift. A lot of displays are old and in disrepair.
NASM really needs a facelift. A lot of displays are old and in disrepair.
Yeah, like that's going to happen in the current budgetary climate.
I would try the International Spy Museum at 800 F Street NW, between 9th and 10th (7 Blocks due East of the White House). It's one of DC's little known gems.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Just west of Baltimore is the Thomas Viaduct in Elkridge, an impressive stone structure built in 1835, and still in use by CSX. Several good vantage points off US Rt 1 (Washington Blvd).
Ed
I can understand about Wrtght-Pat. I grew up "across the street". It's phenominal, and pretty much everything else has a tough time measuring up. Back then, you could touch, and sit in a lot of the stuff. I was not dissapointed with the NA&S though.
King's Island had the same effect on me regarding roller coasters.Ohio actually has better theme parks than Florida!
B&O museum rocks. Lots of railroad and US history in that area.
The NASM annex is well worth the visit. In Baltimore go to Ft. McHenry. On the way there you will get a good view of the CSX coal facilities, former B&O and Western Maryland yards for coal export. While in Charm City take a walk through Penn Station, it has been nicely restored. Also a few blocks away is Mt. Royal Station. It is now the Maryland Institute of Art but the school security may let you in for a quick self guided tour. Camden Station is now a small museum but worth a look to see a well restored pre Civil War train station. Klien's has moved out of the city to the northern suburbs.
In DC don't forget Washington Union Station, it is partly a huge mall but the architecture is intact. The PS-4 at American History is a must also.
While you're in town, pick up a MARC commuter rail schedule. For a very modest fare you can travel up the Northeast Corridor to Perryville, crossing some of the beautiful rivers of the Chesapeake, then back to Washington, switch over to the Brunswick line, and ride all the way out to Harpers Ferry, West Virginia, or on to Martinsburg if you like. (Harpers Ferry is far more spectacular)
When in Baltimore, ride the Light Rail from Penn Station (but make sure you get on the right train, and transfer at North Avenue to go north to Hunt Valley) and get off at Warren Road. You'll be deposited just a block's walk from MB Klein (they moved out of downtown Baltimore several years ago), which is due north off of Beaver Dam Road.
If you've never been to the B&O museum, you owe yourself a trip there. The collection of railroad antiquity is unparallelled on the planet.
Good spots for railfanning in convenient and well lit locations are at the various MARC stations around. The best for watching the action on Amtrak is at Edgewood, Maryland in Harford County, or at Middle River a little closer in. Good spots for watching CSX do its thing include St. Denis (just east of the aforementioned Thomas Viaduct), Dorsey, or out at Brunswick in Frederick County.
Of course, I'd be remiss if you were going to be in town on Sunday if I didn't mention the Western Maryland Railway Historical Society's museum in Union Bridge, in Carroll County about 45 minutes northwest of the Beltway. You should also stop in and see Glen Stegmiller at Moose Caboose on Rt. 26 west of Eldersburg.
If you let me know via PM when you'll be in town, I might be able to swing an ops session for you.
Hope you enjoy your trip!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
If you like watching trains, go to St Denis. Its not to far from Thomas Viaduct. Plenty of CSX and MARC train action. There are usually other railfans nearby. If you're near DC, go to Riverdale, Md. On Friday evenings, there are usually about 10 to 20 railfans watching CSX freights on the Capital Subdivision(milepost 32.5). Earl...
I have to agree with the disappointment with the Air & Space Museum on the mall. Before I visited it, I had been to the USAF museum (twice), the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola a few times, and several others, including the museums in Seattle and San Diego. So my standards and expectations were pretty high to begin with before I ever got there.
I always heard so much hype about the NASM as being the "ultimate" air and space museum, and everyone I ever talked to who had been there was just blown away at "how much stuff they have in there!" When I finally saw it for myself, I was also astounded, but in a bad way. After I had walked through the entire bldg in a morning, I was like, "Is that it?... Seriously?" I kept thinking there was a hidden wing somewhere with thousands of other aircraft, but it wasn't so. I remember thinking not about all the stuff they had, but all the stuff they didn't have. A few years later, I visited the "other" NASM complex in Dulles, and was more satisfied with the selection, but still wouldn't consider it the best museum ever.
In short, it's worth a visit to the NASM on the mall just to say you've been there, and you've seen the actual Spirit of St Louis and the actual X-1 flown by Chuck Yeager, but IMHO, the museum definitely doesn't deserve its reputation as being the gold standard of air and space museums (can't complain about the admission price, though). The NASM complex in Dulles has more quantity and variety, but is not head and shoulders above all other museums, either.
PS - Besides the USAF and Naval Aviation museums mentioned above, another good one to visit is the Pima Air & Space Museum in AZ.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
So your definition of a great museum is lots of airplanes, rather than airplanes of historical significance?
They not only have the ACTUAL Spirit of St Louis and the ACTUAL X-1, but also the ACTUAL Apollo 11 capsule from the first moon landing, the ACTUAL Space Ship One that Burt Rutan built to claim the X-Prize, the ACTUAL Gossamer Condor, the human powered aircraft that won the Kremer prize in 1977 for flying across the English Channel, and the ACTUAL Wright Flyer that made the first powered flight. Then they have the ACTUAL Breitling Orbiter 3 Gondola from the first flight around the world by balloon, the ACTUAL Rutan Voyager that flew around the world non stop unrefueled.
I have to disagree with you about the museum being disappointing. Those things are one of a kind and cannot be seen anywhere else. Anyone can accumulate a collection of production aircraft.
Phoebe Vet So your definition of a great museum is lots of airplanes, rather than airplanes of historical significance? They not only have the ACTUAL Spirit of St Louis and the ACTUAL X-1, but also the ACTUAL Apollo 11 capsule from the first moon landing, the ACTUAL Space Ship One that Burt Rutan built to claim the X-Prize, the ACTUAL Gossamer Condor, the human powered aircraft that won the Kremer prize in 1977 for flying across the English Channel, and the ACTUAL Wright Flyer that made the first powered flight. Then they have the ACTUAL Breitling Orbiter 3 Gondola from the first flight around the world by balloon, the ACTUAL Rutan Voyager that flew around the world non stop unrefueled. I have to disagree with you about the museum being disappointing. Those things are one of a kind and cannot be seen anywhere else. Anyone can accumulate a collection of production aircraft.
I promise I'll add something to the end of this that actually has to do with thread, but first:
While the historical one-off aircraft are significant, it is sorta like building an art museum and having only the Mona Lisa, Scream, Luncheon of the Boating Party, and the statue of David. It would be a good, almost stunning, collection to pull all those to one place but if that's all you have you're a terrible museum. You're not providing a good cross-section of the art world and its historical progression. The other aviation museum like NMUSAF and the USN one down in Pensacola (which is even more of an unknown to the regular person and still amazing. The atrium with the four Blue Angel A-4s in a diamond formation suspended from the ceiling is really cool) do a very good job of this. The longer back in the timeline you go, the production units become solo examples. And they have the pull to have in service units on display. NMUSAF has an F-22 and a B-2. The USN one has the S-2 Viking that served as Navy One a few years back during that whole Mission Accomplished thing. There's also the second tier landmark planes, like Bock's Car, hidden away at these places. Makes me wonder if Great Artiste is out there somewhere.
They also seem to have, for whatever reason, a better job of assembling a "this is what the world was" and "here's what everyone else was flying." For instance, there's a display at NMUSAF of the ruins of Berlin and there's some Nazi items thrown around in the rubble like props. Except they're significant items: there's a solid gold Nazi legion eagle, one of the two that flanked the door to Hitler's office, and a gold Hitler bust, that sat on General von Runstedt's desk. And not far from that is all the goblets and the bottle of booze waiting for the last two survivor Doolittle raiders to make their toast.
Its not that NASM is a bad museum. Just that its really over-hyped, and mostly by people that I would think are more "look at the old airplane neat" than "this is REALLY THE ACTUAL ONE THAT DID THIS." Of course, I'm kind of a snob about stuff like this.
On the point though: Alexandria is a pretty nice spot if you want to see some trains. The Blue line parallels the tracks from Crystal City all the way to Franconia/Springfield. They're not super busy during daylight hours, unless you want to see Amtrak and VRE. And the Juice Train. Alexandria's station is a nice little thing too. Night time is busy for freight, but there are occasional daylight operations. From the Van Dorn metro parking lot, you can see where NS ties up power and there's some kind of office structure there. I've noticed northbound Amtrak trains love to lay on the horn if someone waves at them from the Braddock Road metro station. They've got a good straightaway there and they're flying through there.
I've tried to avoid this discussion of Museums :( I've been to USAF Museum, Marine corp museum (both old and new) Both the NASM Museums, the Museum in Az. (planes of fame) and several others. I've been in the Enola Gay when it was first being transported to the NASM when their restoration facility was in Silver Hill Md. This was early 1950ish.
There isn't one perfect Air Museum but the NASM does, in fact, have the greatest number of historic aircraft in the world, period. Try the Albatross DVIa.. There is only one other in the world that's complete and its in Austrailia. Try Bevo Howards Bucher 133? Try the Howard Huges planes and a host of others.
There are so many planes that aren't on display and needing restoration that you wouldn't believe it. I to think the NASM people can be snobish at times and that's a pity. But I do have to give them credit for their collection it really is the best in the word.
There is/was? a turntable at Point of Rocks Md. If it's still operational its pretty neat little place to visit. A nice small classification yard there as well.
And, just to be a rivet counter, the status of the ACTUAL Wright Flyer that made the first powered flight at the NASM is in question. The real one didn't survive the day's events. What they have is some salvage from the original, with a lot of unoriginal replacement parts put on in an attempt to replicate the original. Last time I was there, the exhibit text indicates that it's a close reconstruction, but they can't be certain that it's exact.
And while I can understand the sentiment about the number of aircraft and displays, I personally agree with Phoebe Vet -- the fact that these are the original, trend / record setting machines counts for more than numbers.
Get out to Harper's Ferry, West Virginia. Someone earlier suggested the MARC train, but I think that only runs westbound in the PM and eastbound in the AM so that might not work for you. It's a really nice drive, though, if you have the time.
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
Colorado_Mac Get out to Harper's Ferry, West Virginia. Someone earlier suggested the MARC train, but I think that only runs westbound in the PM and eastbound in the AM so that might not work for you. It's a really nice drive, though, if you have the time.
Also, if you're into Civil War history. Antietam is not far from Harpers Ferry. This whole area is full of great history if you have the time.
I grew up not to far from D.C, and concurrently not real far from Baltimore either, and spent a lot of time there. My own pics are:
D.C:
American History, Natural History, Air and Space (worth a visit seriously), Nat. Gallery of Art, Hirshhorn, Phillips, National Postal Museum, Union Station, Vietnam Veterans Memorial, and American Art Museum.
Baltimore:
B&O museum, Baltimore aquarium, the ships down on the water-front, science museum (geared more for kids but a lot of neat stuff is there) and though I've never visited M.B Klein's I don't know anyone who hates it.
Alvie
Thanks for all the responses. There are several possibilities. This was a better response than I'd hoped for.