When manufacturer's put a delivery date on any item they usually tend to run late these days, however in your opinon what manufacturer is the worst at running late and the best at staying close to those advertised delivery dates?
Well...I see a good chance for this thread to go down in flames at some point. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.
With that said, Atlas is probably the best; BLI, the worst.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I don't think I can disagree with my friend Tom. When he's right, he's right....and he's rarely wrong.
BLI is my stable provider. I must have 8 of their steamers, and they are all wonderful. However, they have had several swap-outs of items and delays in others on their schedule.
Crandell
Atlas is the best as far as on time goes...as for the worst..could be a tie between MTH or BLI...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I like BLIs products also but they have a long list of stuff that never saw the light of day or was delayed to the point of driving away potenial customers.....case in point the U.P 4-12-2
I don´t know what insight we will gain from knowing which manufacturer is the best or the worst in keeping delivery dates - if he´s the only one making it and we dearly want to have it, we have to bite the apple.
As long as this thread stays civil, I will let it roll along.
In the good old days, the entire production process was in one hand - from product design and development to prototyping, pattern making, parts production, assembly and quality control. Now this takes place in a distributed environment, in most cases with an ocean and a language barrier in between, making the process hard and costly to control. For better control and performance, you need to have a process manager on site with your manufacturer, one you pay and not the manufacturer. Market prices, however, don´t allow for these extra costs. Unless we are prepared to spend more, the issue of announced but not met delivery dates will haunt us for more than just a little while.
While I haven't been in this hobby as long as most of you, I have made some observations among different manufacturers and their products being delayed.
These are my observations:
1. Every company experiences production delays. Sometimes it is beyond their control, sometimes it isn't.
2. I have observed that Athearn, Atlas, Walthers and many others have had delays at some point. I could name specific models, but I am not going to go into great detail.
3. Lately Atlas has been running behind on product releases, but they usually have quite a few different models in numerous roadnames released at the same time.
4. Athearn has had some delays, but lately they have improved somewhat.
5. Walthers has had very few delays within the last 6 months.
6. I have seen BLI and MTH mentioned, but I haven't personally kept watch of what they offering. Their products don't appeal to me at the moment.
7. The only company that doesn't publicly announce a delay is ExactRail, but it is because of the way they release their products, which is different IMO.
Sometimes, I don't mind a delay. For example, InterMountain has delayed production on the GE ES44DC locos. I really want one, but can't afford one. Maybe I'll be able to save up for a new one by then.
Will
I've been patiently waiting through a couple of delays over two years or so from Rapido for a sleeper; as it's in two of the liveries I collect AND has the name of my school on it, I will continue to patiently wait...besides, when they do arrive, they set the industry standard.
Fox Valley has assured me that when just the engine & tender of their Hiawatha start being sold individually, they will call me...but I'm taking other calls in the meantime, y'know...( they liked my idea of a new LeHigh Valley Streamliner, though; so, I think I'll keep in touch...)
Paul
tstage Well...I see a good chance for this thread to go down in flames at some point. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong. With that said, Atlas is probably the best; BLI, the worst. Tom
LOL. I agree with Tom on both points. Hmmm, do I smell smoke?
Rich
Alton Junction
Allow me to use the manufacturers I buy from since I am patiently waiting on releases from both companies...
It seems Atlas and Athearn has about equal delays and I don't fault either company since the slow down seems to be their supplier.
On the positive side my hobby budget is getting some black ink instead of red ink.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
TA462 The worst at meeting delivery times has to be any of the manufacturers that produce the higher end stuff that only appeals to a smaller amount of model railroaders. BLI for example has a poor track record of meeting delivery times but look at their product. The people that actually buy these things for the most part don't really care. Same goes for Rapido. I'm surprised they can do what they do with only 3 employees. Some of their stuff has been very late getting to market but like I said, the people that buy the stuff for the most part are willing to wait. I waited three years for my Turbo's. These two company's make great products that everyone drools over. The problem is they for the most part build to order and they won't start production until they have enough orders to cover the costs. They aren't like Atlas or Athearn who can produce large amounts of stuff and have dealers sit on them until they are sold. It doesn't make good business sense to sit on for example 10 of Rapido's Canadians that only appeal to a small market when you can stock 20 different Atlas loco's or Athearn boxcars that you know will sell quicker. Not many people walk into a hobby shop and drop 400 bucks for a loco or 1500 bucks on a passenger train but lots of people will spend 150 bucks on a Atlas loco or 25 bucks on a nice Athearn boxcar.
The worst at meeting delivery times has to be any of the manufacturers that produce the higher end stuff that only appeals to a smaller amount of model railroaders. BLI for example has a poor track record of meeting delivery times but look at their product. The people that actually buy these things for the most part don't really care. Same goes for Rapido. I'm surprised they can do what they do with only 3 employees. Some of their stuff has been very late getting to market but like I said, the people that buy the stuff for the most part are willing to wait. I waited three years for my Turbo's. These two company's make great products that everyone drools over. The problem is they for the most part build to order and they won't start production until they have enough orders to cover the costs. They aren't like Atlas or Athearn who can produce large amounts of stuff and have dealers sit on them until they are sold. It doesn't make good business sense to sit on for example 10 of Rapido's Canadians that only appeal to a small market when you can stock 20 different Atlas loco's or Athearn boxcars that you know will sell quicker. Not many people walk into a hobby shop and drop 400 bucks for a loco or 1500 bucks on a passenger train but lots of people will spend 150 bucks on a Atlas loco or 25 bucks on a nice Athearn boxcar.
Agreed, yet it would seem that the actual production cost is less than the research and development cost. Once you commit to build 10, or 100, or 1,000, or 10,000, how much more can it cost incrementally to build a few more? So, if that is true, why announce and then wait 1 year, or 2 years, or 3 years to produce?
TA462 Rich, I was thinking the production cost as the all in cost, research and development included. Thinking like you are I believe the cost would be small to build a few more or 1000 more. You would think it would be worth while for them to do it wouldn't you? Sometimes I wonder if they would sell more if the price was lower. I'm sure they would. The more you make the cheaper the all in cost would be. Some company's just don't want to do this because their product appeals to such a small market.
Rich, I was thinking the production cost as the all in cost, research and development included. Thinking like you are I believe the cost would be small to build a few more or 1000 more. You would think it would be worth while for them to do it wouldn't you? Sometimes I wonder if they would sell more if the price was lower. I'm sure they would. The more you make the cheaper the all in cost would be. Some company's just don't want to do this because their product appeals to such a small market.
Sometimes that kind of thinking, though, can hinder a small company like Rapido. As a 3-man operation, they may be missing a skill set that can rationalize supply and demand and set the price accordingly.
In this case, the Canadian may not be as limited in appeal as some may think. This, and other, threads indicate that this particular train is not limited, in appeal, to just our Canadian members.
Let me see, I am still waiting for the BLI GN S1 4-8-4 that I originally ordered in 2006.
Six or seven years ago, Bachmann announced plans to produce a G-scale steam engine on a pre-order basis only. It never was manufactured because they didn't get enough pre-orders. It's been so long ago that I don't even remember what it was going to be.
Texas Zepher Let me see, I am still waiting for the BLI GN S1 4-8-4 that I originally ordered in 2006.
Same here, did not BLI also announce another Pacific locomotive other than the Pensy model that also never saw daylight as well.
don7 Texas Zepher: Let me see, I am still waiting for the BLI GN S1 4-8-4 that I originally ordered in 2006. Same here, did not BLI also announce another Pacific locomotive other than the Pensy model that also never saw daylight as well.
Texas Zepher: Let me see, I am still waiting for the BLI GN S1 4-8-4 that I originally ordered in 2006.
At least even with delays, most manufacturers eventually manage to produce what they promise. But BLI, and I love them dearly for the steam engines they do produce, seems to stand alone in the realm of broken promises. How many locos have they announced but then never actually produced?
It could very well be. Maybe their market is a little smaller?
Then again..after how many times did they advertise something or other only to see it not being produced...
Chicken and egg scenario....
I actually am now wondering if the dumping of their product on to their store did not produce this issue for them
TA462 Rich, I wonder if they don't get produced because of people not willing to preorder?
Rich, I wonder if they don't get produced because of people not willing to preorder?
True, but at some point in the past, BLI announced new products that did not require preorder and then never produced what was previously announced.
johngriffey18ca1 When manufacturer's put a delivery date on any item they usually tend to run late these days, however in your opinon what manufacturer is the worst at running late and the best at staying close to those advertised delivery dates?
The delivery date delays are a very different issue from waiting for sufficient pre-orders to schedule production.
This is a somewhat educated guess on my part - but I believe there is a significant inverse correlation between bank reserves and the optimism of the delivery date.
Most planners know that assuming everything will go well is a guarantee that the schedule (and likely budget, too) will be busted. Risk management is the name of the game, and risk is addressed by adding contigency schedule and contigency funding.
For an under-capitalized or minimally capitalized-project, the contingency is simply not available. Everybody loves to under-promise and over-deliver instead of the other way around, but it takes deep pockets to ride out the inevitable bumps in the road. If your cash flow is short, you have to advertise before taking delivery to get the orders (and $$) coming in. And this means promising a delivery date that may prove unachievable.
With the inverse correlation I mentioned, it follows that the very small cottage producers will be the most likely to miss delivery dates. And I find this generally to be true.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
bigpianoguy I've been patiently waiting through a couple of delays over two years or so from Rapido for a sleeper... Paul
I've been patiently waiting through a couple of delays over two years or so from Rapido for a sleeper...
Paul, if you want a real "sleeper", stuff a 427 into a Chevy Citation.
Marlon
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