G’day all,
I have a problem with a Life like Proto 2000 series E9 loco that have and I am hoping someone might be able to give me some suggestions on how best to fix it. I bought it new some years ago but it arrived just in time to see my part built layout being dismantled as I had changed jobs and in the process was moving house. The result was that I only had a chance to run the loco for a very short period of time before everything was packed for storage and it failed to impress me. I had intended to send it back for exchange but never got around to it and now some ten years or so later I still have it. The problem is a severe lack of power with the loco barely able to haul even a short train along a flat section of track. It would have no chance at all of hauling a reasonable length train around a layout with even modest grades.
Is this a common fault with these now older Proto 2000 series locos? If so, does anyone know of an easy solution to fix it?
Thanks in advance for you help.
Regards,
Dave.
Visit the "Boulder Creek Tramway" at: www.smex.net.au/bouldercreek
Clean the wheels good and lubercate the gears also check for any binding or a cracked gear. Clean around the motor brushes area with a pensil easer and see that all parts turn freely. good luck tell us what happens. rambo1...
also clean track rambo1..
Boulder Creek G’day all, I have a problem with a Life like Proto 2000 series E9 loco that have and I am hoping someone might be able to give me some suggestions on how best to fix it. I bought it new some years ago but it arrived just in time to see my part built layout being dismantled as I had changed jobs and in the process was moving house. The result was that I only had a chance to run the loco for a very short period of time before everything was packed for storage and it failed to impress me. I had intended to send it back for exchange but never got around to it and now some ten years or so later I still have it. The problem is a severe lack of power with the loco barely able to haul even a short train along a flat section of track. It would have no chance at all of hauling a reasonable length train around a layout with even modest grades. Is this a common fault with these now older Proto 2000 series locos? If so, does anyone know of an easy solution to fix it? Thanks in advance for you help. Regards, Dave.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
One possible problem could be heavy grease in the trucks. I have a pair of Proto SD9s that wouldn't move at all when purchased. I took the trucks apart and cleaned all the old grease out, regreased them with Labelle lubricant and they ran great. When the original lube gets old, it dries out and gets thick like tar. Well, almost!
Jim
Hi!
Typically the P2Ks run very well. Certain GP models years ago had gear sets that went bad, but I don't think the applies to your E unit (although it could).
Previous posters gave you good advice, and the only thing I can add is to make sure something - either wiring or shell parts are not rubbing onto the "drive shafts" coming out of the motor. I had this on another PK E unit and it surprised me how little force was needed to slow down the rotation of the motor.
Oh, one test you could do is to turn the loco upside down and run feeders to the wheels to see how fast/slow they turn without a load. If they run real slow, then pull the drive shafts and hook the feeders to the motor. If it runs slow the problem is the motor. If it runs smooth and fast, then its in the driveline/gearsets.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Dave,
As suggested, check the trucks as well for dried lubricant. Clean out any "gunk" and replace with the Labelle lubricant. I have a fleet of 11, older run P2K E-units that are solid runners and each of these "bricks" will outpull a typical modern Athearn six axle Genesis unit, hands down.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
"I bought it new some years ago but it arrived just in time to see my part built layout being dismantled as I had changed jobs and in the process was moving house. The result was that I only had a chance to run the loco for a very short period of time before everything was packed for storage and it failed to impress me."
OK, what where you not impressed by, pulling power or top end speed?
If it is pulling power, my bet is the wheels are not broken in. When I first got my PK 2000 SD-7 it was a real weak puller, maybe 15 cars or so. I was very disappointed with it and ran it with a SD45-2 most of the time. Then one day I ran it by it self and I was shocked when it dragged 30 + cars. Wheels broke in, and it was hooking up.
Is it the speed of the engine? While I have my share of E-6's, I have one E-7 with sound and it is much slower than the E-6's. They changed the gearing in some E units E-7's being one of them, plus it could not pull much either. Later it wheels all so broke in and it pull good now, not like the E-6's but I am happy with it!
While cleaning it is a very good idea with it being stored for some time. Give it some time to break in the wheels if dragging power is the problem.
Is it DCC? I am guessing it is DC with the age.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
mobilman44 Oh, one test you could do is to turn the loco upside down and run feeders to the wheels to see how fast/slow they turn without a load. If they run real slow, then pull the drive shafts and hook the feeders to the motor. If it runs slow the problem is the motor. If it runs smooth and fast, then its in the driveline/gearsets.
I have a dozen or so of these Proto E7,8,9 units and they all run great. The only one I have an occasional problem with is my RI E8. I use it for everything including track cleaning duty but there are times it sits for long periods. When this happens I have a double circle break in track set up. One circle is 18 radius and the other is 22 radius. I will put it on the 22 and let it run at slow speed forward for 15 minutes and then do the same backward. I will increase the speed and repeat until it is running normally. I use this track system for all my locos to keep them loose and running well. I agree that you need to clean everything and the wheels and track especially. I have the test track setup so that I can run DC and DCC units on the same track system using the DC power pack or the DCC system when needed. When the unit is broke in and clean it will haul a lot of cars and weight.
RMax
turn it turtle on the work bench and test, I'm betting it's an uncoupled drive shaft, or the flywheel glue let loose on one truck, and that you are either just dragging one truck along, or the shaft is slipping, offering no real power to one truck.
1st gen E units have enough pull to break couplers before they spin out, especially once the plating wears off the wheels.
I've got 4 E-8s, they will pull anything I tell them to. I once read something about Proto units (PAs in his story) having motors with high current draw. This is unsubstantiated, but something to check. Gummy grease is very likely, and would also show as high currect draw until you tested to motor seperately.
Mike
sanduskyI once read something about Proto units (PAs in his story) having motors with high current draw. This is unsubstantiated, but something to check. Gummy grease is very likely, and would also show as high currect draw until you tested to motor seperately.
Thanks for all the advice guys,
To answer a few of the questions above, it is a non DCC loco. I was not impressed with either the locos top speed or pulling power. I would guess that the top speed would be about half of what it should be compared to any other loco I have and with 6 streamline coaches connected it was even worse and came to a crawl on a very modest grade. As a comparison on the same track, my Spectrum GP30 could easily pull 30 freight cars by itself and barely slow down on the grade.
How long should it need to “run in” for? I would probably say that it got an hour or so running before being packed away and there was no noticeable improvement in that time. I generally give new locos a bit of running in but I have never had another loco that needed to be run in for the performance to shine through. They are generally very good strait out of the box.
I will give it a good clean and check for broken, misaligned, or unsecured driveline parts and see if it improves at all.
Thanks again for the advice.
Dave, while this is going to sound silly, my PK SD 7 took around 20 plus hours. My PK2 E-7 guessing even longer. I had been pulling 10 passenger cars and it could hardly make my 1.5% grade. It did set a lot.
Then one day I lashed it up to a 30 car freight train, not a problem? My E-7 is DCC and it can say the speed it is going, my best speed is still only 74 MPH which is slow for a E-7. My E-6's and F-7's and PK 1000 Eire's will blow past it. I was going to sale it on E-Bay, but now I am going to keep it.
If you deiced you don't want it, let me know.
I have two PK2 E9 locos and they are great runners and pullers.
As others have indicated, I doubt that there is anything wrong with yours that a good cleaning and lubrication wouldn't cure.
Rich
Alton Junction
Has a solution been found for the poor performance of this unit? I'm inclined to go w/ binding of the drive in one of the trucks ( drive shaft/ worm or gunk or flash in the gearcase). This is of coarse if the motor itself/ and/ or factory wiring (board) ck out fine first.
I know it can be frustrating to some about the top speed of these earlier P2K gearing of 18:1 running too slow, especially compared to other 14:1 units that you may want to mu with. My SD7s, SD50s pull coal drags, so top speed isn't an issue for me. Even though the Es in passenger service should run upwards of the 80+ mph who wants to run their trains that flat out and abuse them anyway? One SD or E should have the capability of pulling at least 10-12 passenger or 30+ freight w/o trouble.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Thanks guys,
The fact that it won't run at a fast speed really doesn't bother me as I have no interest in running it around at full speed anyway. I'm sure it should be running faster than it does though. The rest of my loco fleet consists of Spectrum and Athearn locos and running flat out, the Proto would be lucky to be 2/3rds the speed of any of the rest of my locos. The lack of speed is not my issue with it though. It's lack of pulling power is my main concern with it. I am guessing that it may be a binding problem and this is causing both a lack of top speed and a lack of pulling power. When I get a chance, I'll strip it down, clean and check everything and put it back together and see how it goes!
Boulder Creek Thanks for all the advice guys, To answer a few of the questions above, it is a non DCC loco. I was not impressed with either the locos top speed or pulling power. I would guess that the top speed would be about half of what it should be compared to any other loco I have and with 6 streamline coaches connected it was even worse and came to a crawl on a very modest grade. As a comparison on the same track, my Spectrum GP30 could easily pull 30 freight cars by itself and barely slow down on the grade.
Jeffery may be right. When I was running the E-6's I had a MRC 9500 DC transformer which has a lot of power so the light boards where not a problem. I have yet to convert my E-6 to DCC but when I run them on DCC (Digitrax) I speed if fine, but I have 5 amps.
Ken