Recently I signed up for the free magazine of train and did not think I would really care for it but I was mistaken. I very much enjoyed reading the magazine. One of the articles included with this magazine was a mini magazine on the ten most influential locomatives . Some of the engines being seloecteddid not surprised me as being selected, such as the American 440 , I was surprised by some of the diesal selection such as the RS1.I thought that several of N&W locomatives should have been selected but none were. Anyway while reading this article I began to wonder what my fellow modelers would consider the top ten most influential locaomative and why you would select them.Look forward to seeing your responses.
Well "influential" means something that influences how people do things or see things. For example, the RS-1 was the first diesel road switcher. Before the RS-1 diesels were pretty much just little yard switchers or streamlined passenger engines. The RS-1 showed that a diesel could handle wayfreights or switching or passenger trains, and made people realize how versatile a diesel could be. N&W created some great steam engines, but except for their 2-8-8-2 (which I believe was the basis for the USRA 2-8-8-2 of 1918-19) N&W engines generally weren't widely copied or particularly groundbreaking.
Well, this is going to be VERY arbitrary from modeler to modeler and for completely different reasons. The location and interest of the modeler will also influence their choices.
With that said, if you are strictly adhering to the term "influential" then it has to be locomotives that 1) pushed the boundaries of technology (for that time) and/or 2) had the largest impact on railroading because of their ubiquitous-ness. In no particular order and isolated to the US.
Personally, I would not include the 4-8-8-4 Big Boy because of it's limited scope and regional-ism. However, I'm sure it (and other large multi-driver locomotives) will be included by others because of their sheer size.
Other than the John Bull, the rest of the locomotives mentioned were used in virtually every region of the US. That's why I think they were the most "influential".
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Which locomotives were the `top ten' by any set of criteria you care to name will give a very subjective list, open to discussion, dissent and argument!
I won't even suggest mine - except to say that the #1 was set up on a Japanese beach by Commodore Perry - an amusement park ride, the first rail vehicle in Japan, which led, by inevitable concatenation, to Shinkansen.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck,
how´s that:
But back to the OP´s question:
My personal view is that the 4-4-0 "American" was certainly the most influential locomotive design ever, not only in the US. It was the loco that build a nation and provided the basis of new developments in steam locomotive design for higher speeds. Second to that I see the F series Diesels, as they facilitated the transition from steam to Diesel (even if I may not like this ) Third on my list is the PRR GG1 - for me the epitome of electric locos in the US. Fourth is the PRR K4 as the best Pacific ever, challenged only by the A4 Pacific of the LNER or the 231 of PLM. Number five is the class 19 steam motor loco of Deutsche Reichsbahn, for its innovative, maybe revolutionary technology, but unfortunately a victim of WW II. No. 6 is the class 52 Decapod of Deutsche Reichsbahn, probably the most successful steam locomotive design in the world, with over 7,500 built. This type of loco saw regular service way into the 1980´s and even now, there are quite a few in operation. I leave up to others to fill the remaining ranks.
Just my personal view...
My biased list would include:
Tom Thumb on the B&O
4-4-0 American
2-8-0 Consolidation
2-8-2 Mikado
4-6-2 Pacific
Mallet
ALCO Boxcab Diesel
EMD FT Diesel
EMD GP9
Shay
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTER My biased list would include: Tom Thumb on the B&O 4-4-0 American 2-8-0 Consolidation 2-8-2 Mikado 4-6-2 Pacific Mallet ALCO Boxcab Diesel EMD FT Diesel EMD GP9 Shay Enjoy Paul
Problem with this list is that it's biased toward North American practice.
My list:
Stephenson's "Rocket"
Eastwick & Harrison 4-4-0 (1837) - Not the first one (Henry Campbell beat them to it, but E&H came up with the swiveling pony truck).
2-8-0 (Baldwin) First built for the Lehigh Valley in 1866 when the Lehigh Valley was "Consolidated" out of three predecessor railroads. The 2-8-0 went on to become the most numerous freight locomotive in the US and an extremely popular type elsewhere.
New Zealand Railways "Q" class 4-6-2, The first Pacifics ever built. While originally designed for use on New Zealand's 3'6" gauge system by Baldwin, the Pacific eventually became the most popular steam passenger locomotive in the world.
Well known examples (not an exhaustive list):
US: PRR K4, USRA light (various roads), Santa Fe 3400 class, NYC K-3, Southern Ps-4
Canada: CPR G-3, CNR J-4
UK: LNER A-1, A-3, A-4, LMS Princess Royal Class, Southern Merchant Navy Class, BR Standard class 7
Australia: NSWGR C-38
NZGR: Q, A, Ab
Germany: O1 in various variants
China: RM
Japan: C51, C52
Beyer-Peacock 0-4-0+0-4-0: Built for Tasmanian Government. The first Garratt type. Garratts were particularly popular in Africa where their great power and flexibility were used to good advantage.
Old Maud 0-6-6-0: The first Mallet built for use in the US. Mallets and their simple derivatives became the largest steam locomotives ever built and were the premier heavy freight movers until the advent of the diesel-electric.
EMD #103: EMD's FT Demonstrator. Basically, the diesel that started it all as far as freight dieselization goes in North America.
ALCO RS-1: The first "hood unit" or road switcher. Essentially, an Alco S-2 with a stretched carbody and AAR trucks. Variations of the RS-1 (most notably the RSC-1) were built during WWII and used in several strategic locations, most notably Iran.
PRR #4800 (aka "Old Rivets): The first GG-1. Combined the running gear of the NYNH&H EP3 and a streamlined carbody (later smoothed out by Raymond Loewy). GG-1's had a total service life of 48 years (1935-1983).
GE U25b. GE's entry into the US road freight locomotive market. The forerunner of all subsequent GE designs and the instigator or the "horsepower race:" in the 60's. By the end of the decade, single engine locomotive horsepower had gone from 2500 in the U25b to 3600 in both the EMD SD45 and the U36b's and U36c's. By the mid 1990's GE had become the premier diesel locomotive builder in the world, supplying not only North America, but Australia and China as well, among others.
Andre
Some good answers. The only one's I would add are the GP40-2, SD40-2, and GG-1(already noted but still a great one)
Springfield PA
I would have to go with: loco - why
1. The John Bull - proved the advantage of the front pilot to increase stability and speed.2. The American 4-4-0 - probably the longest in-service wheel arrangement. I was the loco used to prove out all the "science" used in later designs - driver diameter, compound cylinders, reverse action, etc.3. EMD FT - a diesel can do freight and have power added in units as needed.4. Alco RS-1 - a loco can be designed so the engineer can see out of the cab. 5. The Northern 4-8-4 - I consider the first of the super steam (1927).6. The GG1 - longest in-service locomotive. Proved a locomotive could do all things and carry a nice design too.7. M-1000 and CB&Q 9900 - A diesel is a viable power source for a loco.
Hmmmmm gets harder.8. One of the first 10 coupled steamers. I don't know if I would consider Santa Fe's 5000 as the leader or one of B&Os - Proved one could really put out the power.9. The NP Z-5 - enormous fire box proved one could burn dirt that was almost coal to power a train.10. The GE AC4400CW - while it was not the first alternating current loco (actually Tesla designed one in 1903) it was the one that really proved electronics can greatly increase the performance and fuel economy of the locomotive.11. EMD dash 2 series (SD40-2 GP40-2).
The list should include Richard Trevithick's Penydarren Locomotive of 1804. It was the first locomotive ever built.
http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/PenydarrenLocomotive.htm
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
[Admission: I know next to nothing about steam or diesel outside N. America, so you will understand my N. America-centrism in what follows.]
Steam: (Early)
Trevithick and Stephensons engines for reasons that will be clear to those who know the history of steam locomotives.
The Stourbridge Lion
4-4-0
4-6-0
(Later steam)
4-4-2 Atlantic
2-8-4 Berkshire
2-10-4 Texas
4-6-6-4 Challenger
Diesel (early) [SWAG]
RS
H24-66
ALCO RSD-7
(late)
SD-45
C44-9W
SD-70Ace
You are very correct in stating that it will be VERY arbitrary from modeler to modeler. And as someone else has stated, it is biased to NA prototypes, as I'm not very familiar with most foreign prototypes.
I chose these and why. Be gentle with my mistakes as I'm doing all of this from memory at 1:30 in the morning.
1. Stephenson's Rocket- Proved that steam powered locomotives were practical.
2. John Bull- Proved practicality of pony or pilot truck.
3. 4-4-0 American- I believe that I read somewhere that this was the longest manufactured loco type ever. Made for a minimum of 60 years.
4. 2-8-0- Most popular wheel arrangement post 1870 in NA IIRC.
5. 2-10-0- Most popular wheel arrangement worldwide.
6. Mallet- 0-6-6-0 first articulated framed loco. Proved the practicality of this design.
7. Lima's 2-8-4. First of what was to become known as "super power" .
8. 4-6-6-4- First articulated that not only had high tractive effort, but also high speed.
9. Alco Boxcab Switcher.- Proved the practicality of the diesel electric locomotive.
10. FT- Diesel electric that made steam obsolete in NA.
Notice I left out locomotives like the Big Boys, Allegheny's, Y's, & GG1's. These were loco's that ran on just ONE railroad and ONE railroad only. By that alone, makes them not very influential. All the wheel arrangements that were mentioned were used on multiple roads. Example, the 4-6-6-4 was used on UP, Rio Grande, Clinchfield, Northern Pacific, and maybe another I've forgotten. The 2-8-4 was used on the B&A, Nickel Plate, SP, Pere Marquette, C&O, L&N etc...
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
How about something, ah, different, & still puttin power down!!!!! Eh?
Umm Kay, Yeah it hauls, Umm Kay.....
The Trains Mag picks are as follows:
1) 4-4-0 The American = Settled American west, won the civil war, reliable, cheaply built able to run over cheaply built tracks, could be found on short lines up to 1950. Estimated 25,000 built
2) 4-6-2 The Pacific = Fast, first built in 1901 by Baldwin for New Zealand ,It was used at the head of the passenger train into the 20s. Last used in the 50s.
3) 2-8-4 The Berkshire= Built by Lima who broke thru barriers to extend the use of steam. By using a larger boiler, four wheel trailing truck , it was known for its power and speed.
4) 4-6-6-4 The Challenger= An articulated engine that could pull heavy freight and do so fast. 252 were built.
5) EMD FT = "Steam Assassin" operated in temp. that ranged from 40 below to 110degrees. first used in 1939 and continued to be used into the 50s.
6) Alco RS-1 = First Road Switcher, Built by Alco Had the longest diesel manufacturing run which ended in 1960. The first mass produced diesel used for light weight commuter or freight trains.
7) EMD GP7= General Purpase diesel produced over 2700 from 1949 to 1954 inspired future four axle road switchers
8) GE U25B First true competition=drove ALCO out of the diesel buisness. Its 752 traction moptors were very reliable and the reason for its success.
9) EMD SD40-2 = Replaced the aging diesels with over 4000 produced. It had a reliable 16 cylinder engine and better support package,Versatile, Tough
10) GE ES44= Lean , Mean, Green= 12 cylinder that is more effient and has more power than a 16 cylinder engine, steerable trucks , diagnostic alerts crew to problems before they happen
How do you feel about these choices ? Agree or not agree ?
One item I think is amusing is that people here are using a steam engine's wheel arrangement to define it. IOW, 4-4-0's are credited with being in production for 60 years and have had 60,000 made and all that... But a slide-valve 4-4-0 built in the mid-1800's probably weighed less than a loaded tender for a "modern" superheated 4-4-0, yet they are considered the "same" engine type. This is biased against all electrics and diesels which are being defined as individual engine types and not their wheel arrangement. So a GG-1 gets docked points because it was only built for one railroad, yet 2-C+C-2 electrics were more widespread for NH, MILW, NYC, and others.
Speaking of the GG-1, some have included Old Rivets and all GG-1's here due to the longevity of 48 years in continuous revenue service. Well, what about FL9's? The oldest were first built in January 1957 and the last were finally retired by Metro-North in March 2009. That's 52 years in continuous daily revenue service (and several are still pulling tourists around). Even the last 30 FL9's that were built in 1960 had more time than the GG-1's...
Paul A. Cutler III
Not that I'm not biased for the GG1 (though i am a fan of the FL9), but i think the GG1 has more historical sway.
While the FL9s did beat it longevity wise, what else did they do? they ran passenger trains in and out of NYC. It wasn't the first F-unit, and although it was notable for being dual mode, and for lasting so long, what else did it really bring to the table?
Meanwhile, the GG1 had been a regular site on passenger and freight trains across the PRR's extensive electrified system (which expanded into the New Haven area when Penn Central absorbed it). It can be argued that the GG1 was superior to almost all locomotives it came up against, outlasting its contemporaries, and holding its own against replacements like the E60s. There is a reason that GG1s were retained in freight service even after PRR scrapped all other electrics in favor of E44s.
the FL9 service reccord doesn't really compare (though i suspect you only meant to point out longevity doesn't mean everything)
Modeling Conrail, Amtrak and NJ DOT under the wires in New Jersey, July 1979.
"the FL9 service reccord doesn't really compare (though i suspect you only meant to point out longevity doesn't mean everything)"
Green_elite_cab , Please let me correct you on your statement. These are not my opinions. These were taken from a "Trains" article. I like you would have made different choices. The orginial question was what would your ten choices be and why.
Paul3One item I think is amusing is that people here are using a steam engine's wheel arrangement to define it. IOW, 4-4-0's are credited with being in production for 60 years and have had 60,000 made and all that... But a slide-valve 4-4-0 built in the mid-1800's probably weighed less than a loaded tender for a "modern" superheated 4-4-0, yet they are considered the "same" engine type.
I find it interesting more people have choosen the 4-6-6-4 than have choosen the earlier Mallets. The Mallets not only proved the articulated design but also showed the efficiency of using the steam twice.
Good points on the GG1. I don't dock it points for being a single railroad locomotive. It did become the electric locomotive which other electrics were measured against.
yougottawanta6) Alco RS-1 = First Road Switcher, Built by Alco Had the longest diesel manufacturing run which ended in 1960. The first mass produced diesel used for light weight commuter or freight trains. 7) EMD GP7= General Purpase diesel produced over 2700 from 1949 to 1954 inspired future four axle road switchers How do you feel about these choices ? Agree or not agree ?
I didn't quote and can't say I know enough about the Berkshire to comment, was it the first to burn lower grade coal? I gave the Z-5 credit for paving the way to buring lignite on a modern loco, but I would be willing to negotiate that and give the Berkshire the spot. The NPs Z-5 fire box was so large they set up a dinner table and served railroad dignitaries supper in there. Thre is probably a similar story out there for hte Berks.
I only have a few in no order
F units, (obviously)
SD40-2. Became standard on most roads
Genset, First truly green engine
SD70Ace, First green (sorta) road engine
ES44, another first Green road engine
and finally,
Big Boy, in a time of distress in America, it gave people a sense of pride and attachment to the RR