proto 2000 locomotives

[west willow and laurel]

Any opinions on the Proto 2000 series of locomotives? Especially switchers.

How well do they run. Will they run on code 75 track?

 

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I have only a couple of the Proto2000 switchers, both SW type. The others are mostly big E units and Alco P units. They run very well. I use code 100 track but several of my friends use code 83 and they run fine on that. They should run on code 75.

[bogp40]

All my P2K switchers (SW600/1200) run very good. Never had any problems with them.  I don't run them as extensively as my other Protos, but they are nicely detailed, good paint and lettering and fairly responsive. They tend to be a bit light, compared to BLI (SW600) or Atlas (Rocco S2)  but not a problem. Then again my Stewarts are the lightest, but the smoothest runners.

You shouldn't have any trouble on code 75, they use decent RP25 wheels. 

[Texas Zepher]

west willow and laurel

Any opinions on the Proto 2000 series of locomotives? Especially switchers.

I have different opinions depending on when the unit was produced.   Proto-2000 started off being a top-of-the-line brand for Life Like.  Now Walther's owns the name. 

How well do they run. Will they run on code 75 track?

They run very well.  Yes, code 75 is no problem.

[MisterBeasley]

I've got an S1, which came as a DC engine, and an SW7, which came with DCC and sound.  I added DCC and sound to the S1.  It's a solid performer.

The SW7 also runs fine, but it's very light.  They took out a lot of weight to add a decent speaker.  To compensate, they added traction tires to one pair of wheels.  So, the engine pulls quite well, but it only gets power from 6 wheels, not 8, so it occasionally will stall on a dead frog.

I run these on Code 100 and Code83 track with no problems.  The S1, though, has very low clearance in the center of the trucks.  If you use Kadee between-the-rails magnets, they must be mounted no higher than the rail heads or this engine will run aground on them.  The Kadee spec calls for mounting a bit above the rail head, which won't work with this engine.

[tstage]

I have a Proto 2000 0-8-0, S-1, and H10-44 switcher.  Beautiful detailing and all run very smoothly on Code 83 track.  I also have an SW8 but haven't put a decoder into it to try it out yet.

Tom

[riogrande5761]

Life Like Proto 2000 I have:

11 EMD GP30's

2 EMD SD7's

2 EMD SD9's

1 EMD GP60

1 Alco PA

Walthers Proto 2000

EMD F7ABBA set

 

As others say, they run on Code 70 and up and as a rule run pretty smoothly.  They aren't Atlas or KATO but not far behind.

Beware the GP series can have cracked gears, and you'll probably have to replace quite a few but the process isn't difficult. 

[richhotrain]

I have a fair number of Proto 2000 (Life Like) switchers and they are all excellent runners, and they look good.

Rich

[swoodnj]

I've been very happy with my various Proto locos, and the ones I have run on Code 70 no problem.

Some early Proto units suffered from a cracked gear issue. If you come across such a unit contact Walthers, and if they can't provide replacements then you can use the equivalent Athearn part. But I think that problem existed before Proto did any SW type locos. The only units I have that ever exhibited that problem were early runs of the GP-18.

 

[farrellaa]

I have several P2000 locos and most had the cracked gears, which i replaced with Athearn gears; an easy  fix. They all run great and as mentioned, look good too. I think the issue of running on code 70 track is really a case of the engines having RP25 profile wheels, which most all manufacturers follow. The early Rivarossi engines and cars had the deep flanges which wont even run on code 83, but hat is another story.

  -Bob

[rrinker]

 The switchers run great, only thing better than my S-1's are the Stewart Baldwin switchers. I have four GP7's as well, the Reading versions were all released during the time period of cracked gears so I just replaced them all with Athearn gears without waiting for the originals to crack. Other than the potential or the gears to crack, these locos also run very smoothly.

                  --Randy

[Darth Santa Fe]

I don't have any switchers, but I do have four Proto diesels (2 P1K and 2 P2K) from the Life-Like era.

P2K SD60 - extremely smooth and quiet runner with a lot of power.
P2K E7A (older design) - very smooth and powerful,  but universals and flywheels cuase a lot of vibration.
P1K DL-109 - very smooth, quiet, and powerful.
P1K RDC - extremely smooth and pretty quiet, but lacks traction.

I would expect their switchers to also run very well, and the newest ones since Walthers purchased LL should be just as good or even better. I've never had a poor running Proto!

[Colorado_Mac]

My Proto 0-6-0 switcher runs and sounds great.  I don't think it  will pull a huge train, but that's not what I use it for.

[New Haven I-5]

I have a Proto 2000 GP20. It's very quiet, even with the sound muted. Strong sucker too, can pull a couple of my locos, and my RSD-15(which is MUCH bigger than the GP-20),cannot pull the GP20. The GP20 has no traction tires either. 

[aloco]

Of the Proto 2000 switchers,  I have the following:

24 Life-Like GM switchers (SW9/1200, SW8/900).  My best running locos.  Flat can type motor, smooth running, slow switching speed.  The only problem is that they're a little too light at the cab end.

14 Life-Like Alco Switchers (S-1, S-3).  Open frame motor, a little noisier than the GMs,  slow switching speeds.  Lighter than the GM units.

2 Walthers FM switchers (H10-44).  Somewhat noisy like the Alcos, slow switching speeds, flat can type motor, weigh as much as the GMs but evenly weighted.

[Geared Steam]

tstage

I have a Proto 2000 0-8-0, S-1,   Beautiful detailing and all run very smoothly on Code 83 track.  

Tom

Like Tom I have the 0-8-0, very nice runner, and the details are great, on Atlas Code 83. Kind of a light puller but adding weight fixed that.

[CP guy in TX]

I have an older ABBA set of Alco F1s that look absolutely awesome with a bit of kitbashing and wire handrails.

They're amazing to look at, but on our club layout, there's always at least one dead unit in the lash up. You can hear the tsunamis rebooting all the time, and it's very annoying.

These are the older style with the open style motors, and I had the tops off several times cleaning and checking, to no avail.

I finally pulled them out of service and run remotored brass in their place. I'm thinking that repowering them will help big time, but it's not on my close in "to do" list.

If they'd all keep running, they'd be just about perfect, IMHO.

They are the only units I have that do this on the club layout, so it has to be a problem with the units themselves.

I have a couple Alco S type Switchers, and an 0-8-0 as well, and they all run very well.

I used to run an older E8, and it ran very well on straight DC, but when converted, it ate Tsunamis for lunch. It got pulled out of service due to current draw problems. I hear the new release E units are MUCH better than the old ones.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a newer P2K of any style. Incredible detail for plastic, and great runners as well.

[CTValleyRR]

I agree w/ CP Guy.  New P2K's are at the top of the plastic model heap. I would buy more without question.

[don7]

I certainly have noticed that the Proto Heritage Steams locomotives have certainly been rising in price. While the MSRP is not necessarily the real street price I notice that the Proto Steamers are  discounted very little. I wait for the Heritage units to be sold off at low prices at the larger on line discounters who routinely end up with large batches on an almost reguare basis.

Have saved a lot of money by waiting for these clearance sales. Could not afford the Heritaqge engines otherwise.

[CTValleyRR]

don7

I certainly have noticed that the Proto Heritage Steams locomotives have certainly been rising in price. While the MSRP is not necessarily the real street price I notice that the Proto Steamers are  discounted very little. I wait for the Heritage units to be sold off at low prices at the larger on line discounters who routinely end up with large batches on an almost reguare basis.

Have saved a lot of money by waiting for these clearance sales. Could not afford the Heritaqge engines otherwise.

That's generally good buying advice for anything, though.  Decide what you'd like to get, and then be patient until you can find it at a fairly deep discount.

[CP guy in TX]

And if you're willing to do some repainting and aren't concerned about the roadname you get from the supplier, you can usually do alot better as far as a discount goes.

Especially with the USRA stuff. Most roads made their own changes anyway, so you will end up adding/changing details anyway..

[hobo9941]

They're amazing to look at, but on our club layout, there's always at least one dead unit in the lash up. You can hear the tsunamis rebooting all the time, and it's very annoying.

If you keep these locos together in a lashup, you could wire all the power pickups together, for 32 wheel pickup. That would eliminate the problem of the occasional dead unit. A couple of small gauge black wires between units would simulate the MU cables.

Or, just put sound in the lead unit, and a second speaker in the second unit. You don't really need sound in all four units. I've done both with good results.

[CP guy in TX]

You're right on the sound thing for sure. I learned that too late.

Hard wiring them is a good idea. I'll probablly do the two A-B sets that way, so I can at least break them into pairs.

Still, you shouldn't need to do that.  For what they want for them, they should be expected to run. I've seen old Tyco trainset locos be more reliable than these.

What frustrates me is that they're the only P2K stuff I have that acts up like this

[RMax1]

I have 11 E's, 1 SD9 and a bunch of 1000 F3's.  They all run great!  I use an RI E8 for everything , testing, track cleaning, pulling everything imaginable.  I recently moved and my new layout will be much smaller so I too am interested in switchers.  The big deal to me is which ones are DCC ready.  I hate installing decoders with a passion.  The new E8's are awesome.  Remove the shell pull the plug and stick the decoder in good to go!

 

RMax

[bogp40]

hobo9941

They're amazing to look at, but on our club layout, there's always at least one dead unit in the lash up. You can hear the tsunamis rebooting all the time, and it's very annoying.

If you keep these locos together in a lashup, you could wire all the power pickups together, for 32 wheel pickup. That would eliminate the problem of the occasional dead unit. A couple of small gauge black wires between units would simulate the MU cables.

Or, just put sound in the lead unit, and a second speaker in the second unit. You don't really need sound in all four units. I've done both with good results.

That would be alright to do if always ran as an ABBA set on DC. These however from the initial response are DCC Sound units. I would set them all to the same address, then if one would keep dropping out, look to a fault in the decoder  first.  Dirty track, wheels and/ or problem trackwork can also cause this. I have some "old" Digitrax 150Ks that one B will loose the MU. With 3 other Stewart/ Katos dragging it around, I won't even know for some time- Did you say flat wheels?

[CP guy in TX]

Yup,

They are all DCC with Tsunami sound.

All set to the same address as one 4 unit locomotive.

I ran them last night and paid attention this time.

One or more was always dropping out. Never the same one, either. There was just as much chance of the lead or any other dropping out at any time. The others just drag it along until it fires back up. I'm surprised it hasn't pulled a coupler off yet.

I noticed that they all start and idle fine, then once rolling, there can be issues right away,but after running for 10minutes or so, they smarten right up. I guess once they get warmed upor something.

I've cleaned the wheels, checked the solder connections and my installations,and checked and cleaned the motor brushes.

All the decoders are hard wired, the weight is cut out under the radiator fans to hold a big round speaker, and the decoders are double sided taped to the top of the frames in the front. 4000/4400 run the front, 4002/4402 are running in reverse for a classic ABBA lashup.

Nothing odd or out of place, and the C-Liner ABBA lashup with the same set up rund great. I have several Geeps.. they run great. Also have an two RS-2s, one each RS-10 and RS-18 and they all run flawlessly.

I really hate to remotor the F1s because right now they are a nice match in speed to the rest of the P2Ks.

Sounds like I touched off a discussion here,so I'd sure appreciate any ideas or tips. This got me stumped.

[Curt Webb]

I have 3 P2K locos, a E7 A/B, PA/PB, and a H10-44. I love them and they pull well. The only issue that I have had was when I recieved the PA/PB the PA had  a broken wire in it that had to be repaired before it would run.

[WSOR 3801]

CP guy in TX

Yup,

They are all DCC with Tsunami sound.

All set to the same address as one 4 unit locomotive.

I ran them last night and paid attention this time.

One or more was always dropping out. Never the same one, either. There was just as much chance of the lead or any other dropping out at any time. The others just drag it along until it fires back up. I'm surprised it hasn't pulled a coupler off yet.

I noticed that they all start and idle fine, then once rolling, there can be issues right away,but after running for 10minutes or so, they smarten right up. I guess once they get warmed up or something.

I've cleaned the wheels, checked the solder connections and my installations,and checked and cleaned the motor brushes.

All the decoders are hard wired, the weight is cut out under the radiator fans to hold a big round speaker, and the decoders are double sided taped to the top of the frames in the front. 4000/4400 run the front, 4002/4402 are running in reverse for a classic ABBA lashup.

Nothing odd or out of place, and the C-Liner ABBA lashup with the same set up run great. I have several Geeps.. they run great. Also have an two RS-2s, one each RS-10 and RS-18 and they all run flawlessly.

I really hate to remotor the F1s because right now they are a nice match in speed to the rest of the P2Ks.

Sounds like I touched off a discussion here,so I'd sure appreciate any ideas or tips. This got me stumped.

Something to check might be the slots in the metal truck side sheets.  There could be some chemical blackening in there interfering with power pickup.  Newer Athearns are having similar issues.  Slight filing to get the paint/blackening off might set them right. 

An intermediate step would be to solder a wire to the side sheet for both sides, take the frame conduction out of the picture, unless you have already done that. 

The next step would be to solder wires to each of those bronze bearings the wheels ride in. 

That is all I can think of. 

I have a C-Liner here I need to investigate, I think the motor has partially failed.  Runs a lot slower than the other 2, howls and growls after a few minutes of running.  I have lubed the motor bearings a few times, still slows down after a bit of use.