I can't compete with the other posters but does one lonely J 3 cub on floats count? I built it from a plastic sheet. Runways scale out so large that it's hard to allow enough space, Even with the Cub, I had to scale it to "N" or it would look to large for the lake. A 10000 foot runway, well you get the picture.
I need to get back in the air.
Lee
Radek Hi, I want to add one reason for adding airport to layout: fuel for planes. Even a medium size commercial airport today uses a lot of fuel, and it is often delivered by rail. The fuel unload and storage facility is usually away from rest of facilities, and fuel is (usually) delivered to planes by tanker trucks or (sometimes) by underground pipes going to aircraft parking ("apron"). The "away from rest" part of previous statement means that you would have to selectively compress quarter (or more) of mile of grassland between the fuel terminal and planes. !
Hi,
I want to add one reason for adding airport to layout: fuel for planes. Even a medium size commercial airport today uses a lot of fuel, and it is often delivered by rail. The fuel unload and storage facility is usually away from rest of facilities, and fuel is (usually) delivered to planes by tanker trucks or (sometimes) by underground pipes going to aircraft parking ("apron"). The "away from rest" part of previous statement means that you would have to selectively compress quarter (or more) of mile of grassland between the fuel terminal and planes. !
It certainly is possible to model train traffic to an airport, even in compressed form. Here are some pictures showing tracks around Oslo airport Gardermoen in SE Norway:
Closeup of passenger RR station area (lower left end of picture), RR tracks continues north in a tunnel under the airport terminal building. Btw - note long shadow of airport control tower in the middle of the picture:
Little easier to see the tracks in this map showing the lower left part of picture above:
A youtube video by someone showing passenger trains arriving and departing from the airport RR terminal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3kpoxe8qdE
Here is a image of the jet fuel terminal, between the road and the mainline at left of picture:
Map showing track configuration of the fuel terminal:
Here is a youtube video showing a Di8 diesel switcher train taking a daily train of empty jet fuel cars towards the harbor tank terminal in Oslo to get more fuel for the airport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHf54gxjf6Y
Note flexible hoses running between the top of the cars - in effect turning the cut of cars into one large tank. Maybe easier to see in this video, showing the jet fuel train pulling out of the harbor terminal in Oslo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0Y9oPidPs
The video also shows the 1:1 scale "weathering" on the trains pretty good - these are not all that old - the airport opened in 1998.
Edit - 4 april 2011: woops. Looks like we had a fire in one of the Di 8 diesel road switchers on the Jet Fuel tank train today. Fortunately the crew in the engine up front noticed that the temperature in the rear pusher went up, so the stopped, ran back and uncoupled the engine from the rear before pulling the tank cars away from the burning road switcher. One of our papers have a photo of the Di 8 on fire tonight: http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/04/04/nyheter/innenriks/tog/brann/16072083/
Anyways - it clearly is possible to model train service for a commercial passenger airport.
It has been done before - there was a model railroad at Gardermoen airport information center for several years while the new airport was being constructed - pictures and description can be found here: http://www2.dmmh.no/~ses/index.php?aut=&vis=234&nid=3&engelsk=1
But what is hard to do is to cram "hundreds" of die cast planes, quite possibly varying in scales from 1:72 via 1:250 to 1:600 into a "town", and still have it look realistic.
Smile, Stein
Radek Hi, I want to add one reason for adding airport to layout: fuel for planes. Even a medium size commercial airport today uses a lot of fuel, and it is often delivered by rail. The fuel unload and storage facility is usually away from rest of facilities, and fuel is (usually) delivered to planes by tanker trucks or (sometimes) by underground pipes going to aircraft parking ("apron"). The "away from rest" part of previous statement means that you would have to selectively compress quarter (or more) of mile of grassland between the fuel terminal and planes. Fuel tanks in airports are underground ones, because of safety reasons, so don't model them above the ground! Fuel facilities in airports had been build like that since dawn of commercial aviation in 1920', so you may use this element even on layout with steam engines running - remember, that in 1920' and 1930' even the small shipments were done by rail and industrial spurs were ubiquitous. Another idea is to model heliport or small "airtaxi" or business jet airfield, maybe at outskirts of big city. Here you may have small models of helicopters or puddle jumpers just across the fence from commuter rail or industrial spur. Cheers!
I want to add one reason for adding airport to layout: fuel for planes. Even a medium size commercial airport today uses a lot of fuel, and it is often delivered by rail. The fuel unload and storage facility is usually away from rest of facilities, and fuel is (usually) delivered to planes by tanker trucks or (sometimes) by underground pipes going to aircraft parking ("apron"). The "away from rest" part of previous statement means that you would have to selectively compress quarter (or more) of mile of grassland between the fuel terminal and planes. Fuel tanks in airports are underground ones, because of safety reasons, so don't model them above the ground! Fuel facilities in airports had been build like that since dawn of commercial aviation in 1920', so you may use this element even on layout with steam engines running - remember, that in 1920' and 1930' even the small shipments were done by rail and industrial spurs were ubiquitous.
Another idea is to model heliport or small "airtaxi" or business jet airfield, maybe at outskirts of big city. Here you may have small models of helicopters or puddle jumpers just across the fence from commuter rail or industrial spur.
Cheers!
You're very close to the way modern ops are concerned. If you look around any major airport, you will find a large above ground fuel farm, which is typically serviced by trucks or a pipeline, however could easily be served by a rail line (and probably is in some cases via the pipeline).
As far as actual aircraft fueling on the ramp, almost all large airport ramps have in ground refueling for the aircraft. The fuel farm is tapped piped into the under ramp area where small pump carts are used to tap into that and pump the fuel into the aircraft. They are the rectangular yellow carts you see parked under the wing.
Smaller airports (HSV as previously mentioned, TLH, and the like) require tanker trucks to refuel the aircraft.
I looked up the SDF yard abeam the airport.... that is quite the operation!
Anyways, great suggestions so far.... if you're looking to model modern airport ops, the key will be to marginalize it and use some artist's interpretation on the space. I strongly considered squeezing in a portion of a ramp or taxiway into my layout, but couldnt do it on a 10x12... still might try to squeeze in a part of a dirt runway with a 172. :) The 757 just won't fit....
Hold my beer... ya'll watch this!
AntonioMartin Hey Rock: Check Model Power at your local hobb shop. They have a DC-3 in American Airlines colors, plus many others (notably a Aer Lingus plane painted all lime green and a Lufthansa JU-2). Hope I can be of help! God bless! Antonio
Hey Rock:
Check Model Power at your local hobb shop.
They have a DC-3 in American Airlines colors, plus many others (notably a Aer Lingus plane painted all lime green and a Lufthansa JU-2).
Hope I can be of help!
God bless!
Antonio
You mean this one?
DC-3 1935 era.
Scale is 1:200, how much off is that for HO? I get confused with all these different scales but if slightly too large or even to small the base would be removed and hung ( by the neck LOL ) with 10 lb. monofilament fishing line.
How about this one?
It's 1:250 scale in the 1933 era. also Die Cast.
I'd rather have plastic as it is lighter but I have a couple good solid hooks in the ceiling with about 25 lb. test, which ought to do it if I go this route? I'll be sure to use the fishing line before string as string would break a lot easier than monofilament line, also this line is invisible at different angles.
Thanks for the info.
Wadda ya mean I'm old ? Just because I remember gasoline at 9 cents a gallon and those big coal burning steamers.
Not all airports have their fuel tanks underground. Maybe most but not all.
Pictured are the fuel tanks for Dulles International Airport outside of Washington D.C.
As you can see they are even close to a highway which I have driven on many times.
Happy Railroading
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
WOW Navyman, thanks for that post! I had no idea and loved the history behind your writing.
MacArthur Islip used to have international service to my country of Puerto Rico back in the day! That was with Carnival Airlines, the air subsidiary of Carnival Cruise Lines. Now it's only a terminal for Southwest and believe me, living where I live, at Phoenix, watching Southwest planes land all day long can get tiring, lol!
I guess competing with JFK and with LaGuardia CAN be hard..lol!
Anyways again, thanks and Im glad I've inspired you to dd something to your layout!
Yeah, but..I have over 100 airliners to display...LOL
Thanks for the picture. As stated an airport takes up to much room,I think I will hang the aircraft on a aproch landing patteren and leave it at that! Maybe a picture of the end of a runway at the end of my layout. Things to think about.as I get closer to finishing that end of the layout.
B&M RR any where in New England Bob
If you don't mind modeling July, 1929, you could probably do the Port Columbus Terminal. It was part of the train-plane-train operations with TAT, PRR and Santa Fe. The Terminal was for air traffic and rail traffic both.
It was only in operation for about 18 months but here's a nice photo showing just how close those K4's are to the Ford Tri-Motor.
http://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=40179
Oh, and by the way. . .
Might not be what you're thinking of, but where I grew up on Long Island, NY we were accustomed to seeing airfields lined, surrounded by and criscrossed with track. Mainly the airfields I refer to were those of the huge manufacturers like Grumman, Fairchild and Republic Aviation. They had huge airfields with every bit of equipment we would expect at a good-sized airport. But they were also major industrial plants, known worldwide for R&D and aircraft testing and construction. Modest passenger terminal, yes, but they had one even if only for company use.
The huge plants in places like Farmingdale and Wyandanch, were only central hubs for the activities I mention. They were surrounded, at varying distances, by smaller air fields with smaller control and industrial plants that supported the same activity as at the larger hubs. One of the outlying airfields later grew into Long Island MacArthur Airport, which now is the regional commercial air hub for Long Island.
Another thought - both Idlewild (now Kennedy) and LaGuardia also had significant rail presences of varying characters. Railways and airfields have always gone together. I don't recall ever having seen an air field of any kind without some sort of rail presence, most often heavy rail. (I grew up in heavily industrialized areas, though) Light rail (subway) didn't show up at Kennedy, for instance, until decades after the former Idlewild became the major air portal for NY City. But we always had to cross or pass by lift or swing or other fascinating kinds of bridges over the tidal approaches to Kennedy when we went to visit the grandparents in Coney Island by train or by car.
There are tons of variations, size ranges, and possibilities to justify the presence of an air field on a layout. As I said, nearly every one of the ones I grew up were heavily dependent on and co-located with extensive busy trackage. The Long Island Rail Road, the huge and historic commuter rail leader, ran both passenger and freight to and from all of the fields I refer to above. Passenger/Commuter ops with five-minute rush hour headways brought the tens of thousands of employees to Grumman, Fairchild and Republic, which were, back then at least, pretty much in the middle of nowhere on the sparsely populated central pine barrens of the Island. For a lot of my young years it always seemed as though one of the LIRR's long rush hour passenger trains would just pull up in the middle of nowhere - because there wasn't anything but pine barren on one side of the track. But out the other side window it looked like the Kennedy Space Center now looks like. And nearly all freight arrived and departed by rail. As kids we never got over being down by the tracks and watching what looked to us like a complete F-one-oh-something fly by on a flatcar. (Okay, so no wings installed yet! We were three, five and seven, so who cared?)
Sorry, by now I'm prolly waay off thread, but this is really engaging. I oughta be mad at you for starting this thread, because I just went through a year+ long process of conceptualizing a brand new dream layout. Now I gotta go add an airfield.
It seems as though some of the posters tend to be discouraging of the thought of modeling air service on your layout, and to be sure, many concerns expressed about size (especially), etc., are all too real. What has surprised me is the relatively small size of the response content that includes the usual and frankly brilliant info about improvising, kitbashing, etc. that we're used to finding.
I'm in no position to gainsay the gainsayers, so to speak. But I do want to express the hope that since your idea sounds so nifty, that you make a point of posting A TON of pics when you get farther along into it. It sounds like a really great idea and one that will inevitably be a ton of fun to chase down and implement.
Best of luck!
You wouldn't need too much space to represent an airport on a layout.
A bit of the end of a taxiway large enough for a single display aircraft to sit, a fence to seperate it from the tracks, and navigation marker or two, period pylons and flags, or modern lighting strobes, and you're set.
and if it's a bit under scale.it will add to the depth perspective.
I have a Lockheed TWA Connie all tucked away for just such a layout scene.
Lots of people saying no planes close to trains in real life. Well, you'd need a little selective compression (but don't we do that all the time) and Reagan airport in Washington, DC fits the bill.
Here's the google maps link (if it works)
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
Those are the gates in the circular shape, so there could be plenty of planes.
Another view showing more planes
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
Like others I have one plane in the air. It's a Ford Tri Motor but who cares. Being in the air removes the fact that it isn't HO scale IMO.
Louisville kentucky stanaford airport has a large yard right off the west side of the airport. google earth it.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
MisterBeasley I've been to Huntsville a number of times, and I also noticed the intermodal facility by the airport. But, once again, it illustrates the big issue here. The airport, a relatively small one with only a dozen or so jetways, is immense when compared to the intermodal facility. For most of us, even modeling a modern intermodal facility is best done by putting it against a backdrop image to get the size to come remotely close to what it would need to be.
I've been to Huntsville a number of times, and I also noticed the intermodal facility by the airport. But, once again, it illustrates the big issue here. The airport, a relatively small one with only a dozen or so jetways, is immense when compared to the intermodal facility. For most of us, even modeling a modern intermodal facility is best done by putting it against a backdrop image to get the size to come remotely close to what it would need to be.
Huntsville is a great example!
There is a HUGE railyard to the south of Chicago-Midway as well, however it is not actually tied to the airport like the HSV intermodal yard.
Being an airline pilot that flies the 737, and just came off of the 757/767 a year ago (looved flying the 757), I tried to find a way to put some sort of airport scenery in my layout...maybe even an airliner if it would fit. The problem is, they are HUGE.
For example, HSV is a relatively small airport... but each runway is 12000 feet long and 150 feet wide and separated a mile apart. The terminal complex is sandwiched in between the two runways that run north/south, with the freight complex on the east side that runs north south. They routinely get both Atlas and Cargolux 747 freighters, as well as the usual UPS 757s and Fedex 727s, 757s and maybe even an A300 or MD-10. The parking spots at the terminal are spaced to fit a number of widebody aircraft, each in about a 280 foot square box. Looks like from the sat photos that there are about 8 747/widebody parking spots. Something that size in itself would be about a mile long or more.
Anyways... even though train engines are large, a standard size airliner can even dwarf them.
There are ways to take them out of real scale... like trying to model the full intermodal yard at HSV would take up an entire basement. Perhaps taking some bit sized chunks and having the rest off in imagination land?
Very neat concept and the joining of two worlds that greatly interest me.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hey rockislandnut;
Recently, Revell made a 1/90th scale ( close enough ) plastic model of a DC-3, its an older kit but looks good. You should find it at the usual places: Hobby stores and other outlets ( Benny's here on the East Coast ). It may not be in the current catalog, but look around.
Have more Fun!
Yes Walthers made the DC 3,/C 47 and P 51 .I have several of the kits but as stated, to make an air field take up too much room. Bob B&M any where in NEW England
Check out Minatur Wunderland on YouTube for an interesting scale airport operation. It fills an entire room, but has amazing animation, and sound is even coming to the planes soon.
jmbjmb tomikawaTT: As a former aircraft maintainer I can understand why you want to incorporate aircraft into your model railroad efforts - but, in truth, the two are a poor fit. In addition to the scale issue I raised, there's the detail that most facilities that serve aircraft don't have rail service, or don't have rail.service in close proximity to the tin birds. The exceptions are major city hubs served by rapid transit (NOT freight or Amtrak) lines. Also, a credible model of even a small commercial airport is BIG! That's a lot of space to devote to non-rail activity. Here's an interesting tidbit though -- Huntsville Al. One side of the airport is a large intermodel facility. I think MR or MRP did an article about it a few years ago and I have been by it fairly often when business takes me to Huntsville. In some ways a great LDE -- linear tracks, large cranes, modern intermodel, with an airport & jets as the backdrop. Oh, and to make it even better, an RS-1 to handle switching. About 60 years of transportation history in one prototype view.
tomikawaTT: As a former aircraft maintainer I can understand why you want to incorporate aircraft into your model railroad efforts - but, in truth, the two are a poor fit. In addition to the scale issue I raised, there's the detail that most facilities that serve aircraft don't have rail service, or don't have rail.service in close proximity to the tin birds. The exceptions are major city hubs served by rapid transit (NOT freight or Amtrak) lines. Also, a credible model of even a small commercial airport is BIG! That's a lot of space to devote to non-rail activity.
As a former aircraft maintainer I can understand why you want to incorporate aircraft into your model railroad efforts - but, in truth, the two are a poor fit. In addition to the scale issue I raised, there's the detail that most facilities that serve aircraft don't have rail service, or don't have rail.service in close proximity to the tin birds. The exceptions are major city hubs served by rapid transit (NOT freight or Amtrak) lines. Also, a credible model of even a small commercial airport is BIG! That's a lot of space to devote to non-rail activity.
Here's an interesting tidbit though -- Huntsville Al. One side of the airport is a large intermodel facility. I think MR or MRP did an article about it a few years ago and I have been by it fairly often when business takes me to Huntsville. In some ways a great LDE -- linear tracks, large cranes, modern intermodel, with an airport & jets as the backdrop. Oh, and to make it even better, an RS-1 to handle switching. About 60 years of transportation history in one prototype view.
I remember that article, and I beleive I've seen it in one fo the magazine-ettes they sometimes include.
-Morgan
tomikawaTT As a former aircraft maintainer I can understand why you want to incorporate aircraft into your model railroad efforts - but, in truth, the two are a poor fit. In addition to the scale issue I raised, there's the detail that most facilities that serve aircraft don't have rail service, or don't have rail.service in close proximity to the tin birds. The exceptions are major city hubs served by rapid transit (NOT freight or Amtrak) lines. Also, a credible model of even a small commercial airport is BIG! That's a lot of space to devote to non-rail activity.
There is a outfit that has cars that run on a flat wire that you can put under your road and then program them to run what ever rout you want them too. Well what i'm getting to is i seen on UTUBE an airport this same way and it was great!!!!!!! The air port took up an intire room and i think it's over in Germany or some place like that. Try to pull it up on UTUBE your going to just die when you see this set up!
Hope you find It! craftman63@gmail.com
As much as I like the nostalgic steam age and the exciting current true golden age of railroading, I wish there was more of a look to the future of railroading, including models that could presage equipment twenty or thirty years down the road. Included in that milieu would be the much needed hubs providing an air-rail link for passengers. Now THAT would be a good use for airplanes on a layout. I think this future view of railroading would attract the much needed youngest generation into model railroading. It's hard to attract the Call-of-Duty/Black Ops crowd to Indiana Railroad interurbans, Rio Grande Southern narrow gauge steam, or a Midwest Transition Era layout. Unbuilt bullet trains, undesigned eco-diesels, undeveloped dynamic freight systems--trains of the future, just might bring them in. So get those planes on your upcoming layout! Thx!
Sorry about the duplication
I once used a Revell DC-3 cut in half and placed against a mirror. The Model looked bigger with half the space. Make sure, the decals on the wing aren't noticiable in the reflection or just don't put them on. Lastly a hanger or runway could be done this way also.
Angel Garrido
Hey this is great stuff. Since we're expanding the topic beyond just commercial aircraft, take a look at Hallmark's Christmas ordiments airplanes. Some scale close to HO.
Gary B
Fox River Valley Railroad
I used a 1/16th scale model aeroplane (Revel Sopwith Camel) as a photographic platform to take some aerial photos of Sweethome Chicago.
...and the pilot
Jon
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