I preordered the entire 9 car set Walthers Broadway Limited Passenger Train. Factory Direct Trains called me today said they were shipping the first car. I also preordered the E8 AB with DCC/Sound.
Anybody else getting this set?
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I "had" this set pre-ordered through my LHS but halfway through the UP set he decided he was giving me too much of a discount on the items I purchased from him and told me I wasn't going to get it anymore. (Actually he "emailed" this news to me), I guessed that spending about $500 per month with him wasn't enough or something so I cancelled all of my orders with him at that time and haven't bothered to do much buying since. Just seemed like a good time stop for awhile but I'm still tempted as I already have the Proto diesels, (straight DC from the old runs), as well as a stack of K-4's and K-5's.
If the pictures are anything to go on they sure do look nice, but I'd still love to see some blue and gray MoPac passenger cars as I'm sure some others would as well. Someday maybe...............
Mark
Well, since I don't model the PRR, and I don't "collect" stuff outside the theme of the layout, and if I paid that much for a passenger car I would expect silly things like diaphragms that touch and stay touching during operation - I guess it's a "no" for me.
Sheldon
I'll post some pics, and a review once I get it, sometime next week.
Since I am a non-slobbering Pennsy Follower; and Retired PRR/PC/CR/Amtrak Engineer; I ordered two sets from two separate suppliers. Out of the box, the cars were basic WKW passenger fare. The paint and lettering are acceptable PRR, although not an exact match for previous WKW, or Centralia/Intermountain cars.
I ran them on my home layout, mixed with Centrailia P85br coaches, and Walthers sleeping cars. The cars performed without incident on curves as tight as 24" radius, including a shoving move, which is better than some previous Walthers cars, which required extensive modification to run on 28" radius curves.
Keep in mind, I don't count rivets or compare the color it to drift cards, and I'm modeling 1967 when the cars were a bit rattier than when new, so performance is higher on my priority list. The cars appear to be just right for what I'm looking for.
Joe Witcofsky
Forty Niner I "had" this set pre-ordered through my LHS but halfway through the UP set he decided he was giving me too much of a discount on the items I purchased from him and told me I wasn't going to get it anymore. (Actually he "emailed" this news to me), I guessed that spending about $500 per month with him wasn't enough or something so I cancelled all of my orders with him at that time and haven't bothered to do much buying since. Just seemed like a good time stop for awhile but I'm still tempted as I already have the Proto diesels, (straight DC from the old runs), as well as a stack of K-4's and K-5's. If the pictures are anything to go on they sure do look nice, but I'd still love to see some blue and gray MoPac passenger cars as I'm sure some others would as well. Someday maybe............... Mark Good for you. Serves him right. Sorry about your cars though. Some people can study a penny a bit too closely and miss all the dollars cartwheeling right on past. John
Good for you. Serves him right. Sorry about your cars though. Some people can study a penny a bit too closely and miss all the dollars cartwheeling right on past.
John
Motley I preordered the entire 9 car set Walthers Broadway Limited Passenger Train. Factory Direct Trains called me today said they were shipping the first car. I also preordered the E8 AB with DCC/Sound. Anybody else getting this set?
I'd like to have it, and I am interested in the Pennsy. It would make a great display item for sure. But it's too much for me. Maybe I'll be able to pick it up cheap off ebay someday after somebody richer 'n me gets tired of it. :-)
Good point there John, I have a basement full of stuff bought that way, just received a "pair" of Proto undec E8's this morning bought off of Ebay for $29.95 each. I've been wanting a couple more undecs for MoPac Jenks blue but refused to pay the current rediculous prices for them.
Everything comes to those who have the patience to wait for it, wise words from an old time model RR back in the early 1960s.
The reviews on the PRR boards are that it is spectacular and probably the best PRR passenger car ever produced. The PRRT&HS has a modeling comittee that will work very closely with any manufacturer to help produce the best quality, detail and paint achievable. They also keep things under wraps and do not spread information. Coupled with the fact that there are a lot of us who buy a lot of PRR equipment has started to wake up manufacturers to produce things correctly resulting in bigger sales. An example is the dark green paint on PRR engines which in the past has ranged from olive drab to Southern to all shades of green other than the right color. Currently there is a very high priced F unit with incorrectly placed nose lifting lugs and miscolored green paint. These issues could have been avoided easily by using the free consultation with the PRRT&HS. The nice thing with the Walthers cars is that there are numerous trains that can be made up using most of the cars being produced. I expect there will be numerous runs.
Not being a Pennsylvania modeler, I'll not be getting this set, though I imagine it'll be much loved by all but the most nitpicky of SPFs. However though, I am reserving an undecorated BM70m RPO as I'd love to paint one for N&W :) don't care if they did not have anything quite resembling it, I just like BM70s that's all.
Alvie
The cars are truely spectacular for 1953 - 1955, which is where the PRRT&HS appears to emphasise their interest. FWIW; the cars date back to 1948. and many lasted until Amtrak in May 1971.
For 1967, my era of interest, the first WKW Broadway car, the Budd 21 Roomette Pulman, had already been stripped of it's "Tuscan Red" paint and roomettes, and had been reconfigured as a coach seating 72. No doubt, this will be a future Walthers product. for post 1963 service along the NEC and system wide.
The upcoming 3DB mid train lounges were converted to 5 double bedrooms by 1956, These cars actually spent more service years in the 5DB configuration (1956-1967) than in the origional WKW modeled 3 DB - lounge configuration (1948-1955).
This is not to take away from the efforts of Walthers or the PRRT&HS to produce an accurate trainset for a given period; they did a wonderful job on the first car and I anticipate the balance will be of equal quality. In fact, they lived up to the advertised 24" minimum radius capability (although of course they will look and perform better on broader curves). The two 21 roomettes performed flawlessly on my home layout - unmodified out of the box.
It should be noted that the Broadway cars, are also appropriate for the "Liberty Limited", "Spirit of St Louis", "General", "Pittsburgher" and any other Postwar train bearing the "Blue Ribbon Train" designation. WKW's slab side PS 4140 10-6 and the old Rivarossi ACF 10-6, as well as the WKW PS 10-5 and Rivarossi 12-5 were also found on these East - West trains, as well as the Centralia/Intermountain P85br coaches, and the Walthers NYC 64 seat coaches, 25 of which were bought by the PRR around 1965 to replace P85br coaches dying of incurable Core 10 steel rot.
The Walthers and Intermountain/BCW B60b baggage cars; BCW M70 and BM70k mail cars, the WKW Budd Parlor and SAL service 52 seat Budd coach and the various custom side/core kit craftsman kits provide a wealth of available passenger cars for the modern era PRR modeler.
Now, if only someone would do the modern era P70 FBR/ FBA/FBD, and the ACFBM85, rebuilt from ACF baggage-lounges. The current Walthers line offers a PRR ACF lightweight Baggage mail, but it is a GN Empire Builder car, painted PRR. I understand there are differences between this offering and the BM85, although, it would probably be a close stand-in.
The PRRT&HS had no influence on the first release. In fact many were surprised by the era chsoen by Walthers. Before it is over they probably will release versions for the different paint and lettering schemes.
Hope you are right about subsequent releases. However, WKW has not released a follow-up TCL with the more common NYC letterboard vs the "Pullman" Letterboard. They also own the tooling for the NYC coaches, Budd grill lounge and Budd Bag/Dormitory needed to do a modern 1958 - 1966 TCL, except for the 16-10 Sleepercoach.
Getting back to the PRR train, hopefully, for me the coach version of the 21 roomette car will follow this Broadway closely. That version will prove most useful since they ran all over the system, particularly the NEC, and lasted well into the Amtrak era..
As with any company further releases are probably based on initial sales. From what I have heard which is strictly second hand at best the Broadway was a total sell out. I see Walthers ads showing NYC cars at reduced prices. My money is on further PRR cars over NYC.
I'm inclined to agree with the total sell out, based on what I observed on MB Klein's web site. That should insure future runs. Again strictly heresay, but certain body types of the TCL were also sellouts, in particular the 12 DB car. FWIW: I also "read" that sales were hurt by the "Pullman" scheme and a question of color accuracy.
On the other hand, P2k and WKW have offered several runs of E units in the five stripe scheme, both DGLE and "Red Passenger color. They have also had an E7 run in the single stripe with large lettering, but have ignored the 1960s "Keystone" schemes, This lack interest in the most "recent" PRR schemes sort of weakens the concept that "Pennsy Sells".
To my knowledge, only Atlas, Athearn and Bowser have done Keystone scheme locos, mostly of 1960s era locos. I'm not above stripping my stash of P2k Es and redoing them for my era, but it would be nice to have something from the post 1964 era.
wojosa31 The cars are truely spectacular for 1953 - 1955, which is where the PRRT&HS appears to emphasise their interest. FWIW; the cars date back to 1948. and many lasted until Amtrak in May 1971. For 1967, my era of interest, the first WKW Broadway car, the Budd 21 Roomette Pulman, had already been stripped of it's "Tuscan Red" paint and roomettes, and had been reconfigured as a coach seating 72. No doubt, this will be a future Walthers product. for post 1963 service along the NEC and system wide. The upcoming 3DB mid train lounges were converted to 5 double bedrooms by 1956, These cars actually spent more service years in the 5DB configuration (1956-1967) than in the origional WKW modeled 3 DB - lounge configuration (1948-1955). This is not to take away from the efforts of Walthers or the PRRT&HS to produce an accurate trainset for a given period; they did a wonderful job on the first car and I anticipate the balance will be of equal quality. In fact, they lived up to the advertised 24" minimum radius capability (although of course they will look and perform better on broader curves). The two 21 roomettes performed flawlessly on my home layout - unmodified out of the box. It should be noted that the Broadway cars, are also appropriate for the "Liberty Limited", "Spirit of St Louis", "General", "Pittsburgher" and any other Postwar train bearing the "Blue Ribbon Train" designation. WKW's slab side PS 4140 10-6 and the old Rivarossi ACF 10-6, as well as the WKW PS 10-5 and Rivarossi 12-5 were also found on these East - West trains, as well as the Centralia/Intermountain P85br coaches, and the Walthers NYC 64 seat coaches, 25 of which were bought by the PRR around 1965 to replace P85br coaches dying of incurable Core 10 steel rot. The Walthers and Intermountain/BCW B60b baggage cars; BCW M70 and BM70k mail cars, the WKW Budd Parlor and SAL service 52 seat Budd coach and the various custom side/core kit craftsman kits provide a wealth of available passenger cars for the modern era PRR modeler. Now, if only someone would do the modern era P70 FBR/ FBA/FBD, and the ACFBM85, rebuilt from ACF baggage-lounges. The current Walthers line offers a PRR ACF lightweight Baggage mail, but it is a GN Empire Builder car, painted PRR. I understand there are differences between this offering and the BM85, although, it would probably be a close stand-in. Joe Witcofsky
I agree with Joe Witcofsky that someone should come out with a PRR P-70 FBR and FBD coach. They are long overdue. I managed to stumble across two NJ Custom Brass FBR's fully decorated in the 1960's scheme (w/ keystone emblems) at a local hobby shop that someone was selling on consignment. I paid $200.00 for one which I thought was was too much. A friend of mine bought the other car. The only alteration I did was remove the clear windows and replace them with near-black tinted windows. (I recall that main line FBR's had either a blackish tint or green tinded windows). The seats were of a medium gray uphostery and had biege paper headliners over the tops of them. (These were the same seats that were also installed in all of the P85L coaches when they were converted from 21 roomette cars.)
The FBR's on both the PRR and PC that I was familiar with were used in mainline service between NY and Washington,DC. between 1965 and 1976. A few were used in NY- Chicago service. In the last days of the Pennsylvania Limited (PRR's very first premiere train), I recalled on more than one occasion that the train pulled into Newark, NJ having a red B60B baggage car, followed by the 10-6 sleeper LEHIGH RAPIDS, followed by a P85L coach, and then a red P-70FBD on the hind end. On on occasion it had an FBR instead of the P85L. On the in-between days it carried one of the other RAPID series cars. For those of you who aren't familiar with an FBD, it was merely an FBR that was converted to a snack bar coach. They were created in 1967. From what I can tell, the last three windows to the right on one side were sheathed over. Behind this blank area was the snack bar pantry and shelving. The other side may have had all of its original coach windows. Perhaps there was a safety bar along some of them on the aisle side opposite the snack bar but I can't confim it. The PRR car numbers for the FBD's were 3644--3650. After the PC merger they became 3244-3250. Only the 3247 was repainted in PC coach green. The rest remained in Tuscan red. Unless one knew by the car numbers what they were, the only identifier indicating that they were FBD's was a white cardboard sign in the last window to the right on both sides that read SNACK BAR COACH.
As for modelling an FBD, it would be easy to create one from an undecorated FBR by simply sheathing over the "three" windows described above. The problem is finding an FBR in the first place. Is the Eastern Car Works FBR suitable? I don't know- I never had one, not to mention they are made for 6 wheel trucks which would be a no-no. Secondly I have yet to locate a floor plan for an FBD. So far the PRRHS doesn't have one on their website.
In reference to Walthers' future 10-6 sleeper for their Broadway Ltd set, the window arrangement in the illustration appears to be wrong. They show only 2 wide view rectangular windows on the aisle side, where I believe there should be three. Can anyone correct me or elaborate on that?
Joe Wirzbicki
I just received the first car this week, it's the Budd 21-Roomette Sleeper. And it's goergeus, and I'm not a huge PRR fan either. But it's looking to be a very nice train.