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Where in the world is model railroading the most popular?

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Where in the world is model railroading the most popular?
Posted by gilshrat on Friday, January 21, 2011 9:22 PM

Does anybody what the top five or ten countries where model railroading is the most popular based on the percentage of the population in the hobby. If you do, could you please site your source? 

Thanks

Gilshrat

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Posted by Aralai on Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:23 AM

UK is popular.

Source = my opinion :)

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:32 AM

It is hard to come by actual figures, but when I do a count on membership figures in model railroad clubs registered in the two big associations we have in Germany, I end up to the tune of a little over 4 million members, out of a population of 82 million. That makes it 5 %. Applying that figure to the US, it would mean 14 million model railroaders - how happy the Kalmbach folks would be to have that circulation figure!

Model railroading has its own TV show, a bi-monthly 30 minute affair, dealing exclusively with the "Little Trains". Model railroading is still the # 1 hobby in Germany, despite all attempts of the industry to price itself out of the market.

I guess that Holland and Belgium sport equally high figures.

In Japan, model railroading seems to enjoy a growing popularity. I just read an article about more and more younger folks being attracted to the hobby. Usually, it is their mothers who get them started with trains ...

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Posted by Forty Niner on Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:31 AM

Hey Sir Madog,

Are people who live in Hamburg known as "Hamburgers"?

Mark ;-)

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Posted by CNJ831 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:09 AM

There was an accounting in an MR editorial a while back indicating that, per capita, Japan led the way in the numbers. Perhaps this is not overly surprising since when I visited the Japanese a while back I found that those folks seem to dive in head first into any hobby they happen to get into and adult hobbies were very common. There are even locations over there that will rent you running time on their large commercial layouts using your own trains from home, or will even rent you the trains to run!

According to the MR piece, the Europeans came next. However, I recall that their figures for hobbyists in the individual countries were decidedly smaller than Ulrich has suggested. Obviously different source material and, of course, what actually classifies one as a model railroader in the minds of those conducting the survey.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:12 AM

gilshrat

Does anybody what the top five or ten countries where model railroading is the most popular based on the percentage of the population in the hobby. If you do, could you please site your source? 

Thanks

There is no reliable data on this, especially in the United States. Ulrich's information on Germany is likely the best info to be had on any country.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 7:45 AM

Here it is in black on white, the data on MR in Germany:

Link to PDF file

It shows what Ulrich says but in the figure of 5 million people in the Hobby!

And even though the figures are MUCH smaller in other countries we can make a rough calculation of, let´s say 2% in the industrial countries. That gives us about 20 000 000 interested or active in model railroading (low estimate), That is why the industry actually survives Smile

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Posted by CNJ831 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:19 AM

Graffen

Here it is in black on white, the data on MR in Germany:

Link to PDF file

It shows what Ulrich says but in the figure of 5 million people in the Hobby!

And even though the figures are MUCH smaller in other countries we can make a rough calculation of, let´s say 2% in the industrial countries. That gives us about 20 000 000 interested or active in model railroading (low estimate), That is why the industry actually survives Smile

Certainly interesting reading, but I would point out that as far as I can see no justification, basis for, or method of deriving the "estimated 5 million" model railroaders, is offered. At least I didn't find reference to same. In contrast, other statistics presented in the report seem to involve a survey(s) of just a few thousand hobbyists.

I would hope that, presented in the way that it is, that the figure presented of 5 million is more than just opinion. I'll try to locate and properly cite the MR editorial on this topic, but I will say right up front that the MR figure was but a very small fraction of what's claimed in the PDF offered here.

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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:42 AM

Don´t forget that almost all data is based on statistical surveys, and in some cases based on a test group of maybe as little as 500 people!

Everytime someone asks how big or widespread this hobby is, there is almost always a response of "we´re almost alone" and all of that ....

If you just look at the number of printed copys of MR that is being sold every month (maybe120 000?), AND don´t forget the OTHER model train magazines!

I think a number of maybe 2 000 000 persons is interested or active in model trains in the US, based on that if there maybe is 400 000 magazines sold every month on model railroading of some sort in the US, the total number of active hobbyists could be about 5 times the number of magazine readers.

That gives a rough figure of 1%, wich gives a gender based 2% figure, as there is a male dominance in the hobby.

 

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Posted by CNJ831 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:58 AM

In fact, Graffen, no more than a combined 200,000 copies of model railroading magazines are sold in the U.S. monthly (with e-zine subs only about a tenth of that) and there is nothing to indicate that more than perhaps 100,000 hobbyists are on-line here in the States. Even generously extrapolating from such numbers wouldn't suggest there to be more than say half a million individuals pursuing the hobby here in even the most basic fashion,. And a decided percentage of these are simply armchair people, not actual modelers in any sense. Very few of us pursue the hobby in absolute isolation. We all buy books, magazines, or go on-line sooner or later, all of which can be documented in some manner. So large extrapolation of figures are not supported.

That's why I have to question a number like 5 million in a country with a dramatically smaller population than the U.S. and in the face of drastically contradictory figures offered by the publishers of the world largest model railroading magazine. With a figure of 5 million German model railroaders, it might be reasonable to expect that at least something like 500,000 would be subscribers, or at least readers, of the German model railroading magazines. Is this in fact found to be the case? Perhaps Ulrich can offer these figures.

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Posted by mokenarr on Saturday, January 22, 2011 9:00 AM

I suspect its most popular in my garage in Mesa Az.  :)

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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:49 AM

If I would compare it with another "declining" model hobby: RC Airplanes.

I have been active in RC Airplane modelling for almost 30 years now and at the Forums and clubs during the last 10 years it has been the same arguments as in the model railroading community; that the number of active hobbyists are declining to a degree that the manufacturers and dealers are slowly vanishing.

As an example: The biggest (and only...) National society for Model airplanes had less than 6000 members out of a population of 9 000 000. A bit less than 0.1 %!

But a survey made by the dealers showed a figure that more than 200 000 people would be involved in the hobby, that is almost 4.5%!

As a result, my model airplane club made a small survey and we used my neighborhood; of the 50 households I asked (at the town meeting) almost 1/3 (16) had (or had been) owners of model airplanes!

And of the 16 positive, 6 of them were still active. But I had only seen ONE of them at our club! That makes a unrecorded percentage of 83%!

To put that in railroading numbers would say that  there should be 3 000 000 model railroaders in the US....

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Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, January 22, 2011 11:18 AM

gilshrat

Does anybody what the top five or ten countries where model railroading is the most popular based on the percentage of the population in the hobby. If you do, could you please site your source? 

Thanks

 

 

Liechtenstein, a small constitutional monarchy situated between Switzerland and Austria, where it is mandatory for every naturally-born citizen over the age of twelve to train for the military. So upon a person's twelfth birthday, they are taken to local military Amory whereupon they engage in the pastime of model railroading. Some, of course are a bit reluctant at first, but in time most come to enjoy the hobby and in fact often go to great extremes in its pursuit. Usually while drinking Liechtenstein Brauhaus beer and eating strudel. And of course, yodeling. There's always lots of yodeling. Some people believe it keeps the goats from eating the static grass. It is estimated that nearly 97.8% of the population of Liechtenstein is either actively engaged in the hobby, or else has retired with honors from a lifetime of service to the hobby. In fact, Liechtenstein in world-renowned for its openness and tolerance of Model Railroaders, and the only real drawback to engaging in the hobby is the unusual scarcity of Lichen. Apart from that, Liechtenstein is considered by many to be the "Model Railroading Paradise on Earth". Strange, perhaps. But true.

 

John

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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:30 PM

jwhitten

 

Liechtenstein, a small constitutional monarchy situated between Switzerland and Austria, where it is mandatory for every naturally-born citizen over the age of twelve to train for the military. So upon a person's twelfth birthday, they are taken to local military Amory whereupon they engage in the pastime of model railroading. Some, of course are a bit reluctant at first, but in time most come to enjoy the hobby and in fact often go to great extremes in its pursuit. Usually while drinking Liechtenstein Brauhaus beer and eating strudel. And of course, yodeling. There's always lots of yodeling. Some people believe it keeps the goats from eating the static grass. It is estimated that nearly 97.8% of the population of Liechtenstein is either actively engaged in the hobby, or else has retired with honors from a lifetime of service to the hobby. In fact, Liechtenstein in world-renowned for its openness and tolerance of Model Railroaders, and the only real drawback to engaging in the hobby is the unusual scarcity of Lichen. Apart from that, Liechtenstein is considered by many to be the "Model Railroading Paradise on Earth". Strange, perhaps. But true.

 

John

?

What should this have to do with the question? Or is it some reaction against the big interest in model railroading we obviously see here in the old world......

Generally we don´t hide our model railroad interest here as opposed to what I´ve seen in the states.

And maybe just that is enough to erradicate the "geek-stamp" that seems to be a big no-go in the US!?!

Even at my wife´s work there is model railroads as one of the priests is modelling in H0, and has some of his collection at work. It has lead to that people talks about them and the interest spreads.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Saturday, January 22, 2011 1:51 PM

Liechtenstein, a small constitutional monarchy situated between Switzerland and Austria, where it is mandatory for every naturally-born citizen over the age of twelve to train for the military. So upon a person's twelfth birthday, they are taken to local military Amory whereupon they engage in the pastime of model railroading. Some, of course are a bit reluctant at first, but in time most come to enjoy the hobby and in fact often go to great extremes in its pursuit. Usually while drinking Liechtenstein Brauhaus beer and eating strudel. And of course, yodeling. There's always lots of yodeling. Some people believe it keeps the goats from eating the static grass. It is estimated that nearly 97.8% of the population of Liechtenstein is either actively engaged in the hobby, or else has retired with honors from a lifetime of service to the hobby. In fact, Liechtenstein in world-renowned for its openness and tolerance of Model Railroaders, and the only real drawback to engaging in the hobby is the unusual scarcity of Lichen. Apart from that, Liechtenstein is considered by many to be the "Model Railroading Paradise on Earth". Strange, perhaps. But true.

 

John

A remarkable achievement considering that Liechtenstein has a population of around 35,000  and only  9.5 km of rail line (and that's operated by the Austrian Federal Railways). I actually went through Liechtenstein on an Inter-City train about 25 years ago. We didn't stop, but it seemed to me that the entire population of Liechtenstein was out taking pictures of our train.

Let us all lift our steins and toast Liectenstein.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by DavidH on Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:10 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the very high participation numbers in Europe.  I recently spent a month just outside the city of Sion, Switzerland, with a population of about 28,000.  It is a couple of hours east of Geneva.  In Sion there were two full service hobby shops with extensive MR inventories.  We'd be lucky to have two shops like that in NA with cities of ten times the size!

 

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Posted by da_kraut on Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:13 PM

Hi,

great question, one that I also asked some time back.  I took a look at the amount of items for sale on E-bay.   Not sure if one can use e-bay as a way of measuring the interest in a hobby,

The German speaking ebay which includes Austria and Switzerland has over 165,000 items for sale, while the English speaking ebay has over 123,000 items for sale.   Here is a link to the start of the German ebay:  http://modellbau.shop.ebay.de/Modelleisenbahn-Spur-H0-/9053/i.html?_catref=1

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Posted by steemtrayn on Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:40 PM

da_kraut

Hi,

great question, one that I also asked some time back.  I took a look at the amount of items for sale on E-bay.   Not sure if one can use e-bay as a way of measuring the interest in a hobby,

The German speaking ebay which includes Austria and Switzerland has over 165,000 items for sale, while the English speaking ebay has over 123,000 items for sale.   Here is a link to the start of the German ebay:  http://modellbau.shop.ebay.de/Modelleisenbahn-Spur-H0-/9053/i.html?_catref=1

Frank

This only means that more Germans than Americans are willing to get rid of their trrains.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:42 PM

The NMRA has only about 20,000 members. If there really are as many modelers as some claim, we need to get a few more to join the NMRA and have a voice of some kind.

Of those 20,000 there are 4,000 in the Mid Atlantic and Northeast. That does fit with other population stats here in the US.

So what percentage of modelers are NMRA members? Maybe we should poll this forum?

I belong to the NMRA.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Medina1128 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 3:13 PM

Graffen

Don´t forget that almost all data is based on statistical surveys, and in some cases based on a test group of maybe as little as 500 people!

Everytime someone asks how big or widespread this hobby is, there is almost always a response of "we´re almost alone" and all of that ....

If you just look at the number of printed copys of MR that is being sold every month (maybe120 000?), AND don´t forget the OTHER model train magazines!

I think a number of maybe 2 000 000 persons is interested or active in model trains in the US, based on that if there maybe is 400 000 magazines sold every month on model railroading of some sort in the US, the total number of active hobbyists could be about 5 times the number of magazine readers.

That gives a rough figure of 1%, wich gives a gender based 2% figure, as there is a male dominance in the hobby.

 

According to Wikipedia, as of 2007, Model Railroader Magazine had 160,000+ paid subscriptions. I realize that this doesn't include general magazine sales, but even if you tripled that number, it would still mark a low percentage of the general population. I'd also imagine that MR is the biggest seller of magazines for Kalmbach publishing.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:08 PM

I, also, belong to the NMRA.  Since 1972.

Paul

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Posted by andrechapelon on Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:19 PM

What should this have to do with the question? Or is it some reaction against the big interest in model railroading we obviously see here in the old world......

Generally we don´t hide our model railroad interest here as opposed to what I´ve seen in the states.

And maybe just that is enough to erradicate the "geek-stamp" that seems to be a big no-go in the US!?!

Even at my wife´s work there is model railroads as one of the priests is modelling in H0, and has some of his collection at work. It has lead to that people talks about them and the interest spreads.

Bit of an overreaction there, Graffen. He was being facetious. He could have just as easily chosen Monaco or San Marino for his "joke" since they have populations similar in size to Liechtenstein.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:12 PM

I don´t call it an overreaction, I reacted to the way that post ridiculed the question and the way we tried to discuss it!

If I had made the same kind of post, but made it against the US, this thread would have been locked by now......

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Posted by RAYMOND T on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:23 PM

I think your question should be,Where in the world is model railways the most popular.

the proper term is RAILWAYS.

 

 

RAYMOND T

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Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:26 PM

Graffen

I don´t call it an overreaction, I reacted to the way that post ridiculed the question and the way we tried to discuss it!

If I had made the same kind of post, but made it against the US, this thread would have been locked by now......

 

You are absolutely correct. I apologize profusely. And to make it up to you, I'm going to have Swedish Meatballs for dinner. Fair enough??

 

John

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Posted by Graffen on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:28 PM

All okay! Big Smile

And I can vouch for the amount of modellers in my region, as we have five model shops in a 30 mile radius  from where I live of wich the closest is only 10 miles away. there is only a population of 120 000 in the region wich gives us roughly 24 000 people per shop.

I have talked to some friends of mine regarding this question, and the consensus was that it is probably not as many % modellers today as it was 30-40 years ago, BUT as the population increases the amount of modelers will roughly stay the same.....

My Model Airplane club is a good example of that, it has had 35 members since it was started in the early 80´s.

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Posted by wjstix on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:45 PM

I would go with Great Britain (who I suspect have the highest percentage of railfans ("train spotters")) and Germany/Austria. Look at the manufacturers there - Preiser, Marklin, LGB etc.

Forty Niner

Hey Sir Madog,

Are people who live in Hamburg known as "Hamburgers"?

Mark ;-)

Yes they are. The American "hamburger" name comes from the "Hamburg sandwich".

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Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:48 PM

Graffen

All okay! Big Smile

 

Whew! I was beginning to suspect that maybe Sweden and Liechtenstein had some sort of Mutual Aid Treaty or something....

 

John

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Posted by andrechapelon on Saturday, January 22, 2011 6:57 PM

Graffen

I don´t call it an overreaction, I reacted to the way that post ridiculed the question and the way we tried to discuss it!

If I had made the same kind of post, but made it against the US, this thread would have been locked by now......

I'm really curious. How did it ridicule the original question? The question is basically unanswerable to begin with. The PDF you linked to referred only to Germany and came nowhere near providing an answer to the question even assuming the data are accurate. If someone were to ask me where the hobby is most popular, I would have answered that it was probably a pretty close match between the UK and Germany in terms of participation per 100,000 population but that would have only been based on personal observation as I have attended events in several countries.

JWhitten's reply only attempted to to inject some humor into the discussion and I am totally at a loss as to how anyone could look at it as an attack on Liechtenstein in particular or Europe in general. Liechtenstein has one of the highest per capita GDP's in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita If the Liechtensteiners aren't avid model railway buffs, they should be. They certainly can afford it.

I was going to close with some observation on the big model railroad in the Vatican basement, but thought better of it. Some would accuse me of promoting religion and others would accuse me of ridiculing religion. You just can't win no matter what you do.

Andre

 

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:23 PM

RAYMOND T

I think your question should be,Where in the world is model railways the most popular.

the proper term is RAILWAYS.

 

 

RAYMOND T

Proper acording to who? Based on the corporate names of the companies in that business, All three terms are correct - Rail Road, Railroad and Railway.

And a few from the past used no such indentifier:

The Reading Company

The Sourthern Pacific Lines

 

But what do I know, I've just been studying this stuff for 40 years.

Sheldon

    

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