Workin' on the Railroad and Trains of Thought

[Pruitt]

A lot of folks apparently don't care for Koester's and Strang's columns. I like both.

People have commented in several forums that Strang can be almost insultingly simplistic (and I agree), but when I first got into model railroading, sometimes that simplicity would have helped. Plus, Strang tends to write about little projects that otherwise might not quite make it as a stand-alone article. On more than one occasion after reading his column, I've made a mental note to do something similar (or exactly the same thing).

Koester's column is a free-form model RR opinion column, and I almost always enjoy it. I read a lot of criticism of the ballast story (December) - people are thinking it was a waste of time and space. I got a few chuckles out of it. The column gives a monthly peek at the human side, which can't always come out in the feature and short articles.

Hang onto those guys, okay MR?

[CNJ831]

I'd have to say, Mark, that my take is just about opposite your own regarding Strang and Koester. I suspected that Lionel is being asked to write those ultra simplistic columns. From long past articles by him I know that he is a much better author than what I'm seeing lately and I think MR should allow him to return to more complex subject matter, where he really shines.

Koester, on the other hand, I've always considered a waste of space in the magazine. I subscribe to read instructive articles, not to hear stories about, or opinions of, one modeler. And I certainly don't look forward to endless chatter about the new layout he's building or that his take on the hobby is the only "correct" one. If the column rotated between a number of authors it might have value. As it stands, I say drop it and provide readers with something worth while for the bucks spent.

John

[BRAKIE]

I for one like Tony K 's train of thought the way that it used to be when he gave some very indepth and dare I say,interrogative columns that would make you stop and think of the ways to improve modeling if one would choose to.But,I freely admit that to much of his column lately has been on his new NKP layout way to much in my humble opinon.however I did get a chuckle out of the ballast storey I can see how one would easily do that on the gosh,I am really human side of modeling.This type of story is a welcome relief to the normal revit counting and I model exactly right type of story that I find boring to say the least.
As far as Working on the Railroad,Well,I find it to be the dumbest one column I ever saw come down the pike in years! I am applaud,nay,outraged that they choose to drop good columns and keep this dumb column.I say away with this column and bring back some of the ones they dropped.I would love to see a column for readers views and opinions like a readers forum,a new question can be asked every month.I am sure this can be done.Russ, What do you think?
Enough said on my part.

[Anonymous]

Hey guys, firsy I have to say that Tony K. columns I don't realy have a coment on. Some are OK and others are OK too. But the Strang and Lionel collunms are the ones that definately shoul stay in MR. We must remember that not everyone reading MR is a long time veteran. The newer guys or younger guys need this type of article to help them along. Yes, some of these things are simple to do projects, but i'd bet when you guy were new and young to the hobby, this is just the thing you would have liked to read about and try..........Jamie

[Anonymous]

Tony Koester has a knack for writing an article and plugging his NKP Third Sub. I tell ya what, how often do you see any photos of him actually "working" on his pride and joy? I dont think his railroad either exists, or is not on the grand scale that he brings it up to be. If youre going to brag in every article you write about how great you are, and how great your layout is, back it up with something! Mr. Strang, when I need that much styrene to build projects, Im sure youre box will come in handy. BUt in the meantime, how about something useful, like a box to attatch to the fascia of my 4x8 layout to hold my DCC command station, and a multiple electrical outlet, along with having a map of the layout printed (or something) on the cover, keeping all the electronics nice and pretty, and best of all, hidden? How about that?

Matt

[gerryleone]

Count me as one of those longtime MR readers (23 years!) who likes both columns quite a lot.

I love Lionel's column because each deals with a single, easily implemented concept that may get lost inside of a larger article. It's sort of like the "Dollar Project" and "One-Evening Projects" of days past.

While I think Tony is one of the all-time greatest self-promoters in this hobby, I also think that what he has to say is valuable. He's a great writer and a great modeler, and while I completely disagree with most of his modeling philosophies, he presents ideas and concepts worth thinking about, and sometimes, worth aspiring to. Frankly, I hope that someday *I* can be as arrogant and self-confident in this hobby!

-Gerry

[BRAKIE]

Jamie,I was BORN in railroading and model railroading! Both my grandfathers,all of my uncles on both sides and my dad worked on the railroads,My dad was a model railroader,so you see I was born a model railroader.Ofcouse when I turn 18 guess what? I went railroading for a living.but today I no longer work on the railroads but,live model railroading.

[DavidH]

I agree with Gerry. Further, the value of Tony's opinions is evidenced to me by the fact that RMC hasn't been worth a darn since he left as editor.

David

[Anonymous]

LARRY, I under stand were you are coming from. You have obviasly lived the railroad life and I thank you and your family for helping the railroads build this wonderful country that WE live in. I wasn't trying to demine what you said, but not everyone in the hobby or reading MR has had the opportunity or or the time in yaers to do such a thing to gain the amount of working knowledge that you must have. I admire you for that. This is why some of these simpler articles are needed for some of the younger less experianced modelers. In fact, I think it was in the Dec. issue of MR were they explained Helper service and horn signals in depth. These articles were great to someone like myself who doesn't know these kind of things. I know this is getting away from the Tony. Lionel. and Strang articles, but it helps me to make my point. Larry, I would love to hear some of your stories of growning up and living "The railroad live". Just try to remember the Newer People from time to time. We like to learn of the things past that con no longer be lived..........Jamie

[Anonymous]

Personally, I could do without Koester's column. Everytime I read it, I get angry. Aside from his self patronizing tone and his pontifications, I wonder why he thinks he can write the rules for prototype modeling, or any other railroad modeling. Each model railroader builds his layout to suit his purpose. There is no right or wrong, only personal preference. Model Railroader would be a better read if they could stay away from the judgemental. Doing away with Koester's column would be a step in the right direction.

[thirdrail1]

OHHH, I get SO tired of the phrase "There is no right or wrong, only personal preference." This is also known as situational morality. IF you are attempting to recreate a prototype railroad in miniature, which many of us aspire to do, there is only one right way - and that is to make it as accurate and faithful to the original as is within our abilities and to strive to improve those abilities. You will never get the full satisfaction possible out of model railroading if you merely accept "good enough". Grow and learn! I've been at it a half century and am still learning......

[Anonymous]

GREGG, after fifty years of model railroading, surely you remember those days when just running your train on a little 4 by 8 table with just a little senery and let's not forget a tunnel was more than enough to make the ol' "Johnson" rise. I love what a lot of you do with your railraods to make them so real looking and to photo graph perfectly. That is without a dought a master piece in the works. But you can't really beive that the guy who built that 4 by 8, wasn't having just as much fun. Yes, as we get older an our skills are honed, we obviasly strive for more and better until it is as real as it gets. Or only as real as your ability will it get. Fun to one other than yourself might just be to have a simple layout and watch your train go around and around, expecially if it is your child or grand child laughing and smiling as they play. Yes others do like to rack their brains out getting every last detail down to the number of rivets on a bridge. We all have our own way of having fun..........Jamie

[Anonymous]

Gregg,

I would agree with most of what you have to say, but I'm having a problem with "situational morality". Is there morality in model railroading? My God, there must really be a "Model Railroad Bible"!

If I have an end in mind, but I don't have the requisite skill or the knowledge of how to bring it about, that is where Model Railroader comes in. But when they try to tell me what end I should have in mind (like Koester), then they waste my money and time. All model railroading is a compromise with limited space, time and money. If I just want to watch the trains run around (or whatever) I don't need to "grow", but I'm always willing to learn.

[thirdrail1]

Pardon the comment about situational morality. I've just been reading too much John Leo!

My wife says "I don't see how you can say you enjoy model building, you're always cursing at what you are doing!" But, she does realize that I do feel a sense of accomplishment when I have finally finished that scratchbuilt building or car that was frustrating me while I built it. I truly enjoy finding a prototype, gathering plans and photographs of it, figuring out what materials to use and recreating something in miniature. It may be difficult and frustrating, but I sure do enjoy the fruits of my labor!

[BRAKIE]

Gregg, That is a true saying. There is no right or wrong in model railroading! Why? Because it is a hobby.No one can really model a true railroad! At the very most we can try.If we would model any where near a real railroad most of us would find that we truely know nothing from Jack about it.If you fail to believe this then get a job on the real railroad and see for yourself.As I stated before I come from a long line of railroaders,when I was young and cocky I thought I knew every thing about railroading from listening to my family talk.When I hired out on the PRR I found that I knew very little,in a hurry.Today I am well versed on railroads as that is all I know or ever cared to know about.It is in my blood.But I refuse to force my modeling on anybody.They are free to choose the way they want to pursue the hobby.This is exactly what is wrong whit MR and most of the columns they are Holier then thou art,and down deep proberly could not tell you the very job of a brakeman with out fouling up.There is alot more to it the meets the eye.I know I was a brakeman.
As far as "good enough" Tony K did that on his old AM. Allen Mccellan did it on his V&O.Shall I go on? There is nothing wrong with good enough modeling. Who are we to tell anyone else they are wrong or right? Frankly, if any one is happy to run trolleys with out over head wire,well,I am happy that they are happy doing it that way.I will not laugh or make fun.This is fast becoming a big problem in model railroading today a few trying to tell the many they are wrong in their modeling.'nuff said already.

[Anonymous]

My hat is off to all the model RRers who can replicate a prototype right down to the last detail. Same goes for those "operation" guys, with their fast clocks, switch lists, car cards, etc...
But I get mildly annoyed, & somewhat amused when they insinuate that all other aproaches to the hobby are somehow not valid.
I started out just like a lot of people running trains around in circles on a piece of plywood. As thigs have evolved over the years, I've really gotten into building models, & scenery. Later, I got into photography. This got me into building & photographing dioramas. They're not necessarily prototypically correct. They certainly don't "operate". Does this invalidate me as a model railroader? I DO build models - of TRAINS...
But if guys like Gregg & Mr. Koester want to kick me out of the club - so be it. I'll just go on my merry, "immoral" way, just doing it the way I like.

[thirdrail1]

Brakie, if there is no right or wrong in model railroading, why then are those of us who TRY to faithfully model the prototype accused of being "elitist". I am tone deaf and cannot sing or play an instrument to save my life, but I do not call those who can sing or play well "elitist". By the way, I started my railroad career with the same company you did, the PRR. I am now retired, but have had the opportunity to "play" with the real thing, having helped to organize a short line (which failed) and negotiating the necessary agreements with the AAR and other railroads. I have been called some names here, but I do have 37 years of railroad experience as the dreaded "enemy" to you t&e people - a marketing and accounting type who went railroading because he was a fan! I also like to play "devil's advocate" and get a good lively discussion going!

[BRAKIE]

Gregg,When I was talking about the elitist I know who I had in mind.While I really have nothing against the "prototype Charlies" I do seem to get fired up when they imply that they are the only "true" modelers.Now, since you have worked on the railroads you should know what I meant when I said that about modeling a real railroad.You know and I know this can not be done.We may come close but,no cigar.But,I do like those that try their darnest.If you don't believe this, watch the model railroad experts work a yard or an industrial siding.Man the rules I see broke would get you fired to say the least or if you are lucky some time off.when these cats run a train across the layout they have no idea what the heck their trying to do.But,what the hay,it is just fun right? That is why I say nothing to them about the "right way". Gregg,Sorry,you are not the enemy.The only true enemy we have are those that try to force their views and the Holier then thou art types that like to find fault with the way others choose to model.I to like to play the "devils advocate" by defending those that persue the hobby in their own way.And I also like a good lively discussion.Nothing like 'em. Merry Christmas Gregg.

[Anonymous]

Larry, Gregg,and the rest of you, You guys are all right after all. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all.........Jamie

[Anonymous]

Count me as a reader who likes both columns and finds them valuable. Mr Strang focuses on quick to build, small projects which can bring a scene to life but are sometimes difficult to think of when there are other, larger projects to be done.
Sometimes a quick and easy project is a welcome and useful break from the major projects.

I find Trains of Thought to be interesting, very well written, and frequently thought provoking and challenging. I don't agree with everything Mr.
Koester says, but it is an opinion column, not a set of rules which everyone must follow.

[Anonymous]

Back to the original thread:
Regarding Strang's columns, my best impression of them is that they are uneven. He's a good writer but his choice of subject matter ranges from the ultra simplistic to interesting and informative and then on to... well, weird (as evidenced by his latest column).
Regarding Koester's columns, I feel that somewhere along the line he got too full of himself , and it shows up all too often in his columns. I used to really enjoy his editorials years ago when he was at RMC; they were interesting and informative. And the first few years of "Trains of Thought" were the same. But then I began to notice a change in the column's tone and attitude toward the reader. Some months the column had a tone of arrogance and near-condescension, particularly when he would start beating the "operating-is-the-only-way" drum. And now, we're beseiged with the NKP updates. As a result, I seldom read the column any more. I would be nice if the "old" Tony would start writing again. I miss those columns. I realize it is an opinion column, but I don't like the feeling that I've been beaten over the head or that I've been talked down to.

[Anonymous]

Koesters articles are a waste of time and paper.I`d rather see another ad in its place if a good column can`t be written. Gerald

[gerryleone]

I think you guys should realize that, while I agree that Tony's a bit of a self-promoter, the ideas he's espousing have been around for decades.
What's more the WAY he expresses those ideas has also been around for decades.

I'm holding the May 1951 issue of Model Railroader in my hands. In a picture caption to an article by the great Frank Ellison, the author states, "Both cross-country and suburban railroading can be modeled on small layouts
if the proper prototype is followed." Note the way he stated that -- sounds like something Tony could have written. But this was 50 years ago.

So, I guess, don't nail Tony to the cross for either the ideas or the way he expresses them. He's just another in a long line of "prototype practices" promoters. For better or worse.

-Gerry

[Anonymous]

Speaking as someone who writes for publication on a regular basis (but not about trains or model trains) I can tell you -- sometimes you are absolutely stumped for something to say. I thought the bullet proof box for styrene strips looked and sounded like something written by a guy who has a deadline and has perhaps run out of ideas. On the other hand the column on bracket supports for benchwork was well done and very practical -- especially note how very thorough and precise Strang is, very much a measure twice cut once kind of thing.
As to Koester's column, again sometimes you can sense a guy at a loss about what to say this month. Sometimes reading his stuff is a little like talking to a fundamentalist -- they know they should make "liberal" noises like how religion is a personal choice but they can't help feeling that there is only one right way and they have found it. I do remember one of his columns where he said he could not understand why someone would tear down a finished layout just because they enjoy building layouts -- when he suddenly did the same thing he did NOT apologize publicly to the guy he had belittled a few years earlier. Still and all there is usually something thought provoking in the column and I never fail to read it. Wonder what the next editor will bring to the table of MR ....

[Anonymous]

I'll take the old "Especially For Beginners" and "Bull Session" columns over these new ones any day. EFB had excellent, detailed instructional articles that not helped me grow as a beginner but that experienced modelers could gain tips from as well. Bull Session (BS??) was chock full of nuggets of various types regarding our great hobby, and was always presented in a positive, informative, and subtly humorous manner. I sometimes find Strang's subjects to be way too simplistinc and irrelevant, and Mr. Koester can miss the target and end up sounding annoyed and bothered. I'm not saying that I could write a better column, mind you, I just miss the more consistent quality of these older columns.