Can someone tell me what HOn3 is? My understanding is it is HO scale on N gauge track. Does it actually use N gauge track? Do you use normal HO scale buildings, etc with HOn3? Is HOn3 used primarily to model a certain era/prototype, such as mining...or can you model anything in HOn3? If I had an N gauge layout, could I run HOn3 engines and cars on it, as long as the curves werent too tight? Are HOn3 engines and rolling stock smaller than HO? I am fairly limited in space but really like the detail and ease of working in HO. I want to get back into the hobby now that grandkids are showing up, and I am not familiar with HOn3.
Thanks.
It's narrow gauge HO so that the n scale track is the correct gauge for narrow gauge but still HO scale Everything else is HO scale as well.
mspringerCan someone tell me what HOn3 is? My understanding is it is HO scale on N gauge track.
HOn3 is still HO scale, 1:87th size relative to real, but the trains are models of prototype narrow gauge trains. Hence the "n" for Narrow gauge. Normal - Standard Gauge - in the United States, Canada, and Mexico is 4' 8.5" between the rails. Any railroad with rails closer together than that is considered narrow gauge. Railroads that use track with rails further apart is called broad gauge.
The 3 in HOn3 means there are three scale feet between the rails. This was a very common size in the US. Especially here in Colorado. The D&RGW was originally 3 foot. The Rio Grand Southern, the Denver South Park and Pacific, the Boulder Northwestern, the narrow gauge portion of the Colorado Southern were all 3 foot narrow gauge lines.
If I had an N gauge layout, could I run HOn3 engines and cars on it, as long as the curves werent too tight?
Are HOn3 engines and rolling stock smaller than HO?
I am fairly limited in space but really like the detail and ease of working in HO. I want to get back into the hobby now that grandkids are showing up, and I am not familiar with HOn3.
On the other hand you might want to consider On30. Bachmann has made some pretty nice trains this size. This is basically O-scale narrow gauge that runs on HO track. Much cheaper than the HOn3 stuff.
HI, Well, Uh, I somewhat disagree with the last post. HOn3 is NOT N gauge track.
HO: is 1/87.1
n: means narrow gauge (as previously posted correctly)
3: means 3 foot gauge, (which is NOT 'N' scale track).
HO n 3 is Awesome!!!
Narrow Gauge was used in Logging, Mining, & Industries that had non-standard tractive & space requirements/needs.
I am attaching a picture of an HOn3 Blackstone K-27 on a display I made with Dual-Gauge track. [notice the track in the picture] That means it is 3 rail track, it supports both standard gauge 5 foot 8.5 inch, & 3 foot narrow gauge units. (A note: dual-gauge was pretty rare in real track milage, but, because I needed a photo base, I made this one that way because I enjoy all HO (1/87.1) modeling. (Standard HO & Narrow HOn3)
If you want to model late 1800's to near post-WWII & some surviving local/regional & a slim few current tourist RRd's, then HOn3 is for you.
Also, HOn3 has set the bar for detailing & accuracy pretty high, don't let this scare you, rather - let it show you what can be done in HO scale.
Beware that there are different versions of narrow gauge, HOn30 & HOn2.5 both are less than 3 Foot in scale & some say that they are both 2.5 foot gauge, so beware the difference of 'n3' & 'n30' as they are different. (I believe 'n30' is compatible with 'N' scale track as the other poster may have been thinking).
Please feel free to ask me any questions, I'll be happy to help, -& please othewr forum users, please 'chime in' too...
Thanks,
First, in the real world, some railroads built their lines less wide than the 4' 8.5" of standard gauge. These were called narrow gauge railroads. One famous example would be the Denver and Rio Grande Western. Possible widths were usually 3' (most common), 2.5' (not very common at all, also called 30"), and 2' (most often in New England). During the era of the Civil War, widths varied by inches, meaning nearly every railroad had a different gauge. This was done so that a railroad assured that another railroad couldnt use it's track, damaging the competition.
Second, in Model Railroading, some people model these different gauges. Most often, we model with 3' track, however, the specialized track for this scale is usually very expensive, so manufacturers have made the equivalent of 2.5' or 30" gauge, which means that HO scale trains with wheelbases that are 30 scale inches apart just happen to be able to run on the much cheaper N scale track. This is called HOn 2 and a half, or HOn30. On another note, this is exactly the same thing for O scale and HO track: On30
Hope this helps!
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
Tex Zeph:
Great Explanation!
I was questioning this 3 years ago myself, & one day I found the answer too.
Thanks for pitching in & explaining so well !
I'm hoping our posts help out & guide our fellow modelers, Thanks!
And narrow gauge is a lot of fun. You can scratch build !
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
The usual nomenclature for model railroad scales is 1or 2 letters - Z, N, TT, HO, OO, S, O. If they are followed by a small n and a number they designate equipment that is the same scale but the wheels are closer together following a prototype that used a gauge less than standard (4' 8.5"). So HOn3 is HO scale using a track gauge of 3 scale feet. HOn2 is HO scale using a track gauge of 2 scale feet. HOn30 is HO scale using a track gauge of 30 inches.
Because narrow gauge is a niche market track, locomotives, car trucks are not always available (or are very expensive) for a particular scale / narrow gauge. To get around this some narrow gauges are modified a little to use these components from another more common scale. Thus you get
On30 which is O scale narrow gauge using HO track, locomotive mechanisms, and trucks.
HOn30 which is HO scale narrow gauge using N track, locomotives, and trucks
Sn3.5 which is S scale narrow gauge using HO track, etc.
Nn3 which is N scale narrow gauge using Z track, etc.
and the real odditity
Sn2 which is S narrow gauge using HOn3 track, etc.
Enjoy
Paul
Texas Zepher If I had an N gauge layout, could I run HOn3 engines and cars on it, as long as the curves werent too tight? No. six scale inches different.
However, you can run HOn30 (HOn2-1/2) scale trains on an N scale layout, providied there is sufficient clearance. On our Boothbay RR Village layout, we have been planning a 2 foot narrow gage section, but are in the process of completing a track plan*. One of our members models N scale, so when we recently got another HOn30 locomotive, he did a test run on his layout. 2 foot narrow gage rolling stock and locomotives are small in real life, so a 2 foot narrow gage boxcar in HO scale is not that much different in size than an N scale 40' boxcar.
*Peco has recently released a good looking HOn30 flextrack, but HOn30 turnouts are not as available so our track plan will be using N scale #6 turnouts.
Compare the photos of Peco HOn30 and N scale flextrack to see the diference, remember that the actual track gage is the same. Similar comparisons can be made between On30 and HO scale tracks
HOn30 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/552-500
N Scale http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/552-1709
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Because On30 has so many commercial models of 24 inch (Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes etc) and 36 inch (Rio Grande, mostly) prototypes and runs on HO standard gauge track, some modelers have the impression that the same relationship exists between HO narrow gauges and N scale standard gauge track.
Nyet!!!
HOn3 (HO scale, 36 inch gauge) is designed to run on accurately scaled track, 10,5mm gauge. HOe, aka HOn2 1/2 (according to MR magazine) or HOn30 (everyone else outside of Japan,) is used for 30 inch gauge prototypes and runs on N scale 9mm gauge track.
Granted that 30 inches was a most uncommon gauge in North America. In some parts of the world it was much more common. Japan had numerous 762mm gauge lines, ranging from loggers to electrified commuter lines. An odd few still survive, still running link and pin couplers in the 21st century!
Japanese HOn762 has a fair amount of commercial support, but mostly in the form of craftsman kits and at prices that would blow your socks off. You can buy a U.S. prototype 2-8-8-2, ready to run, for the price (msrp, international shipping, money exchange fee...) of a brass kit for a ten ton 4-wheel diesel-mechanical 'critter' about the size of a Y6 cab. NOT grandkid-friendly, unless, like mine, your grandchildren are college students.
My master plan actually includes two 762mm gauge feeders, of very different characteristics. As of now, both will be static displays. In the unlikely event that other construction gets close to completion I may provide them with running room on upper-level shelves.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
mspringer Can someone tell me what HOn3 is? My understanding is it is HO scale on N gauge track. Does it actually use N gauge track?
Can someone tell me what HOn3 is? My understanding is it is HO scale on N gauge track. Does it actually use N gauge track?
You have many answers above from guys with a lot more experience in the field than I have. But, I can't resist trying my own way of expressing what I understand. Sssoooo...
If you were to stand between two parallel tracks, with a steamer of some description on one and a steamer of a somewhat different description on the other track, you would be curious to know how they were different. Yes? You might notice that one track has the rails about a foot or more closer to each other...narrow gauge. But, aside from slight cosmetic differences, each engine might weigh the same, have the same energy application at the rails, sound the same...and so on. You could duplicate each engine, and they would both be in HO scale at 1/87. If the tracks were also in 'scale', they would have the same scale reductions in 'gauge'. The scale is a ratio of dimensions between all that is and the model. The gauge is merely the distance between the rails. You could have monster engines teetering on 24" gauge rails. But their scale would be a real world scale. Make a model of that in HO and you'd have a huge HO scale engine on a gauge that you could only realistically make for yourself. It would be silly, sort of, but that is the difference between scale and gauge. The gauge only relates to the distance between the rails. There were many gauges, even in N. America from Day One.
For convenience, the manufacturers, and tons of users, have made HO representations of our two engines, with some running in scale on what we call HO track...of a certain gauge, and the other engine that runs on N scale track because the real scale reduction of the real gauge is so close to our N scale gauge. If you wanted to purchase accurate gauge for your narrow gauge steamer, you'd have to purchase rare and expensive track elements, or make 'em yourself. Many just agree to call it a deal so that they can lay track for the narrow gauges quickly and cheaply.
-Crandell
I thought some photos of HO scale standard gage equipment alongside of HOn30 and N scale would help this discussion. Sorry for the late post, but what I wanted to photograph is over at Boothbay Railway Village and it is a 60 mile round trip for me, so I had to wait for our Thursday layout work session.
First to track. This photo shows, top to bottom
So, the first two tracks are HO scale, but the track gage (rail spacing) of the second two tracks are the same.
How large is rolling stock for these 3 tracks?
Finaly, two locomotives:
The reative size of these locomotives is correct. I have seen photos, paintings, and other models of standard gage and 2 foot gage locomotives together that confirm this. Also, the 2-6-2 is a LARGE locomotive for 2 foot gage, other locomotives like the 0-4-4 Forneys are smaller