Jim, I'll be picking up mine on Tuesday. I hope this driver thing isn't too common; anyone else have wobble problems?
Hal
I've decided that if I buy this set, it will be from my LHS and only after I see the loco test driven. It there are problems with the passenger cars, I'm sure I can work that out, but I'm not going to spend more than five hundo if the loco is a piece of junk. I don't care how good it looks, if it doesn't operate well, it's not going to be worth the investment.
Darth Santa FeThis actually isn't the first time the Hiawatha's been released in plastic. Anyone remember the bakelite Rivarossi model?
I just unpacked my six passenger cars and put them on my test track, The coupler height on all but one were all over the place. All the cars seemed to suffer from coupler droop! The Kadee couplers are very sloppy in the boxes. The floors in some of the cars push up very easily into the shells causing coupler height problems. Some of the screws holding the coupler housings were not screwed down tight allowing slop. Also some of the Kadee (copper) spring pockets protrude and rub against the housing. Worst of all was the baggage car. I had to place washers at the truck king pins to lift the body and couplers to near to the correct height. It took me a good couple of hours to get all six cars couplers to match the Kadee height gauge.
The train overall does look good but it needs a good deal of work to get it running well.
Jim.
UPDATE - I installed the Tsunami sound decoder onto another engine after this episode and it works perfectly on the other engine. Therefore, this issue is linked to the circuit board or wiring present on the FVM Hiawatha as it came out of the box... I have emailed FVM to ask for at least a pin-out wiring diagram (as well as another DC board if they can...) for the leads coming from engine into the tender through their 8-pin plug. Even though the leads are numbered onto a small circuit board under the bigger DC board, I cannot assume that they follow DCC protocol. Obviously, an easy fix for all of this is to install a DCC Sound decoder by soldering wire by wire directly onto the relevant leads (once I confirm those...) and just bypass the factory DC board with NMRA 8-pin plug altogether... And I can also take the engine apart further to trace the leads but I prefer to work from a good diagram even if I do that...they may have a pinched or incorrect lead soldered in by mistake. More to follow...
djcwardog
HO C&O and Southern passenger-oriented layout is a work-in-progress. Union Station gives plausible reason for other roads to visit. KATO snap-track got me running as I scenic sections at a time.
I bought a Tsunami yesterday, Cab Forward version, it has the 4449 horn. It has a 9 pin designed in with wire leads, I bought a 9-8 pin interface, sliced out the wire harness and installed the interface. Based on the numbers on the DC plug I installed it that way. The engine ran backwards when forward. The headlight would not work, usually when its backwards creepy things can happen, I flipped the connector around adjusting the decoder placement, now everything is fine. The engine is geared high and the chuffs never line up tho I boost the chuff rate. I may look into the cam use, or see if chuff rates are further adjustable. I thought about trying to regear the engine slower, but would not be easy, I will try to have the BEMF enabled to control the slow speed better.
At DCC throttle 10 this engine is already flying.
AustraliaJim Finally received my Hiawatha set in Australia a couple of days ago and I must say I'm disappointed in the loco. Both main driver sets wobble. The loco goes along the main straight like a dolphin. Although the axles are not sprung I have on wheel that goes up and down and one that goes in and out. I have contacted Fox valley but as yet have not had a reply. Also another weird thing, I installed a digitrax decoder and the loco ran terribly. It would speed up and slow down without me moving the throttle. I reset the decoder to factory default and it was just the same. I pulled out the digitrax and put in a Lenz Gold and the loco ran like a charm? Go figure! However it still bounces along the track. Any one had the bouncy problem? Jim
Finally received my Hiawatha set in Australia a couple of days ago and I must say I'm disappointed in the loco. Both main driver sets wobble. The loco goes along the main straight like a dolphin. Although the axles are not sprung I have on wheel that goes up and down and one that goes in and out. I have contacted Fox valley but as yet have not had a reply. Also another weird thing, I installed a digitrax decoder and the loco ran terribly. It would speed up and slow down without me moving the throttle. I reset the decoder to factory default and it was just the same. I pulled out the digitrax and put in a Lenz Gold and the loco ran like a charm? Go figure! However it still bounces along the track.
Any one had the bouncy problem?
Jim
digitrax has bemf enabled, if the wheels have a wobble problem causing friction issues that can force moptor slowdowns and the decoder tries to throttle compensate. wobble wobble. The other decoder might not have bemf or not enabled. My main driver has a slight wobble amd I notice a tiny crack in the plastic where the wheels are mounted. So far its solid, but sometime I may open it up in a workshop and see if the wobble and be ironed out.
The solution would have to be removing the drivers and checking for evenness, being careful not to break the wheels. I would use a NWSL Wheel puller for adjusting.
But its pretty obvious its a manufacturing flaw, I would see if you could tweak it better but might still have a slight wobble. Hope there are replacement drivers or FV do a warranty repair/replace.
dinwitty I bought a Tsunami yesterday, Cab Forward version, it has the 4449 horn. It has a 9 pin designed in with wire leads, I bought a 9-8 pin interface, sliced out the wire harness and installed the interface. Based on the numbers on the DC plug I installed it that way. The engine ran backwards when forward. The headlight would not work, usually when its backwards creepy things can happen, I flipped the connector around adjusting the decoder placement, now everything is fine. The engine is geared high and the chuffs never line up tho I boost the chuff rate. I may look into the cam use, or see if chuff rates are further adjustable. I thought about trying to regear the engine slower, but would not be easy, I will try to have the BEMF enabled to control the slow speed better. At DCC throttle 10 this engine is already flying.
You can adjust the CV's to limit the engines speed. Synchronizing the chuffs to steam engine can take a long time, I got it "pretty good" on one engine by lowering the engine speed and adjusting the chuffs, then every so often went back and did more adjustments, until now it's really pretty good. But it's never going to be as perfect as an engine with a cam.
BTW re an earlier post, the AHM/Rivarossi hiawatha engine was the later 4-6-4 streamlined engine, not a 4-4-2 like this new one.
wjstix BTW re an earlier post, the AHM/Rivarossi hiawatha engine was the later 4-6-4 streamlined engine, not a 4-4-2 like this new one.
If you checked the site, the Rivarossi model indicated is the 4-4-2, just like the Fox Valley model, in addition there was another version with a black paint scheme
http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_American_Locos/Riva_Atalntic_Hiawatha.htm
Because of this thread I pulled my loco out of the box this weekend and put it on a test track.
I did not see any of the wobble wheel problem the others mentioned. I did however break off one of the marker lamps - grumble.
Texas Zepher Because of this thread I pulled my loco out of the box this weekend and put it on a test track. I did not see any of the wobble wheel problem the others mentioned. I did however break off one of the marker lamps - grumble.
replace it with a tomar lit marker lamp....
I tend to believe the driver wheel problem is a manufacturing fault and a testing/quality failure. Some may be perfect, others, with varying degrees of wobble issues.
Litchfield Station are now advertising a Tsunami for the 4-4-2 Hiawatha (with a horn)
Normal 0 http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999003364&cat=0&page=1&featured
I might have to get one!
AussieJim
I got my set today, and concur about the coupler/floor problems in the cars. The engine doesn't wobble sideways, but it pitches fore-aft some in response to crossing turnouts, to be expected with only two driver sets.
The gear ratio seems too low for the torque of the motor used, as the engine can run very fast on level track, but running light at a medium 40 mph or so, it slows down drastically on a 2.5% grade. This means I probably can't add weight to the cars as I would like. It also means the ratio of the driver revolutions to chuff rate of a Tsunami without a cam will probably be grossly affected by load and grade. If there is a higher torque motor or higher ratio gear box that could be substituted, I would change it. This would also make for smoother "creep" speeds. I find the same problem of gear ratio too low for the motor torque in smaller Bachmann engines like the Decapods.
A few nights ago I finally opened up and inspected all the Hiawatha passenger cars and I ran the locomotive on my DC test track. There was only one wheel off a truck and one coupler that needed its height adjusted.
I am very disappointed in the performance of the locomotive. It “dolphins”, that is, bops up and down, as it goes down the tack. And there is an irritating clicking noise. It would not make any sense to add a sound DCC decoder and speaker to this locomotive since the clicking noise is so loud. I have not located the cause of the clicking. As I only own about ten steam locomotives, I perhaps have been lucky, but this is only the second locomotive I have had that has had problems like this out of the box. (The other was a Bachmann 2-8-0 which the company immediately replaced.)
Several people have now posted complaining about the performance of the locomotive. Has anyone made contact with Fox Valley to see about repair or replacement? Any recommendations on how to proceed?
This is indeed an impressive train set, the painting, the details, etc., are great, but watching it pulled by defective locomotive greatly takes away from the appeal of the train. It appears that Fox Valley has quality control issues with its Chinese manufacturer.
JPD A few nights ago I finally opened up and inspected all the Hiawatha passenger cars and I ran the locomotive on my DC test track. There was only one wheel off a truck and one coupler that needed its height adjusted. I am very disappointed in the performance of the locomotive. It “dolphins”, that is, bops up and down, as it goes down the tack. And there is an irritating clicking noise. It would not make any sense to add a sound DCC decoder and speaker to this locomotive since the clicking noise is so loud. I have not located the cause of the clicking. As I only own about ten steam locomotives, I perhaps have been lucky, but this is only the second locomotive I have had that has had problems like this out of the box. (The other was a Bachmann 2-8-0 which the company immediately replaced.) Several people have now posted complaining about the performance of the locomotive. Has anyone made contact with Fox Valley to see about repair or replacement? Any recommendations on how to proceed? This is indeed an impressive train set, the painting, the details, etc., are great, but watching it pulled by defective locomotive greatly takes away from the appeal of the train. It appears that Fox Valley has quality control issues with its Chinese manufacturer.
I'm betting that clicking means that somethings not in sync between the gearing attacvhed to the drivers and that of the motor. I'm not sure how Fox has theirs set up, but in most steamers, the drivewheel chassisi si separte form the motor/weight insdie the shell. If you push down on the steamer as she runs, (not so hard as to force a bind, but a gentle push) does the clincking stop or lessen?
-Morgan
I picked up my set yesterday and looking at it I'm very pleased. If the locomotive has some problems I'll be disappointed but I've been wanting the class A since I was 4 or five years old so I'll bite the bullit. I'm 67 now soon to be 68. Time flys when your having fun. Since this is Fox Vallys first try at steam and in H.O. I'll cut them some slack. From what I hear from the N scale guys they are a good company. We'll have to see how it goes.
I'm also in 7 1/2 inch gauge live steam. How about the HI in that? No problem trying to find a sound decoder for it.
"......Any one had the bouncy problem?"
Jim,
Have had the same problem with TWO so far...waiting to hear back from Fox Valley.
I'm disappointed to say the least.
Below is a copy of my post on RR-line forum. I'll post again if I get any answers.
Cheers,
Michael ( rockrailsnsnow )
Boalsburg , PA
Good Morning,Anyone out there get the new Fox Valley Hiawatha?Tested it yet? Problems??I placed the first engine on the test stand as usual to break it in on DC before installing a decoder, and found it wobbled front to back like a dingy in waves. I thought it might be the traction tires, but rather it seems the front set of drivers were +/- .0015 out of round. This translated into about 3/32" of bobbing at the rear of the cab roof.I contacted the dealer I purchased from and they immediately replaced it with another. (Kudos to Internet Trains for fast response and excellent customer service)Still no joy...same problem with second unit. Have since talked with several others and another dealer and others seem to have found the same. I am reluctant to have them send a third until I find out if it is a common problem, or these are isolated cases, and I just have extremely poor luck. (2 out 2 bad ) I have sent an email to Fox Valley and am waiting for a response. My purpose here is to encourage anyone else who may have a problem to do so also. It is too expensive to be a shelf piece, and I suspect there may be a manufacturing QC issue. If it is a common problem and they are made aware of it, I am hoping they can at least provide replacement drivers to cure the problem.Thanks,MichaelBoalsburg, PA
Michael, I've written three emails to Fox Valley over the past week. I've had no replies?
I have two more sets of these in transit from the US. I hope they're not the same.
I have my model almost two weeks now and overall, i´m happy with it. I installed a Digitrax decoder with no problems. The engine runs good, no whobbling on the drivers. The loco nods when running over unlevel track but as said before, thats quite normal for a loco with only two drivers. I had some optical issues with the engine, the shell was unlevel by means the cab was sitting a bit lower than the front. Putting a set of plastic washers under the rear screw lifted the shell a bit, which sits now level on the frame. I also think the cars are a bit too light, but since disassembling them is very easy it might be no problem to add some weight. Some of the couplers are a bit low as well, but since i generally remove the trip pins that doesn´t mind. Overall, i´m very happ with the set!
I intend to try a Tsunami Heavy Steam decoder in a day or two. But first have been working on painting and populating the cars. When I put the first car back together, the figures disappeared, and I realized that the seats don't line up properly with the windows in any of them. I found that I could solve this in the coaches by removing the front 1/8 inch or slightly more of the interior plate and extending the 14 slots so it would still snap in place enough forward to be correct..
To fix the coupler height, I adjusted each floor end and put a drop of glue on both sides so it would stay put (which is why I was doing the interiors first). This wasn't possible on the Tap Car, so I swapped the couplers for KD 47's.
Just received a very polite message from Matt at Fox Valley Models. He's been overseas and just returned home. He says he's had a few emails regarding the wheels and is looking into the problem. As soon as he has an answere he'll get back to us.
This is a hopeful development.
Installed a Tsunami Heavy without a problem, except to get the chuff rate right at low speed required using the 28-step speed table. Startup is about as realistic as possible without a cam.
I'm a little annoyed that the Tsunami airhorn isn't very well done. If QSI Solutions comes up with a good file, I'd consider changing to it. I have an extra Loksound and the programmer, so will see what I can cobble together when possible.
Now that the couplers heights are fixed by gluing the floors with small dabs, the cars run flawlessly here and at the club/
SECOND UPDATE - Matt responded to my email to Fox Valley (info@foxvalleymodels.com) in a very nice manner and offered to (and did) send me a replacement tender frame. I got everything but the tender shell - which we agreed I would just drop on from the first one. Unfortunately, even with that now connected to the loco, it does not move when I try it out on my DC test track. It sits still and just operates the headlight (dim in one selected direction, bright in the other). It would appear that this incident was either caused by a problem in the main loco, or that it now created a problem there. I could take the shell off and look for burned up wires, etc, but I will wait and see what Matt wants to do... I think he is a stand-up guy who will make this product run as great as it looks.
I had noticed a bit of bobbing from the main drivers but it seemed to run fine otherwise when I ran my initial DC test before trying to simply plug in the 8-pin decoder on the tender frame - which resulted in the fun described earlier in my thread! I planned to investigate that issue once I had the DCC done.
djcwardog, I pulled my loco apart to check it out after I noticed the wheel wobble problem and I found that the wires from the tender come up through the metal chassis in front of the cab and are held in place with a curved metal cap. This metal cap actually pinches the wires down onto the metal chassis to hold them. If one of these wires is shorting out where it is pinched it could be causing your problems! It's easy to get the loco shell off. maybe you should take a look.
Cheers
don7 wjstix: BTW re an earlier post, the AHM/Rivarossi hiawatha engine was the later 4-6-4 streamlined engine, not a 4-4-2 like this new one. If you checked the site, the Rivarossi model indicated is the 4-4-2, just like the Fox Valley model, in addition there was another version with a black paint scheme http://www.rivarossi-memory.it/ENGLISH_VERSION/Riva_American_Locos/Riva_Atalntic_Hiawatha.htm
wjstix: BTW re an earlier post, the AHM/Rivarossi hiawatha engine was the later 4-6-4 streamlined engine, not a 4-4-2 like this new one.
"Produced by Rivarossi from 1948 to 1954"
Well, that was before my time!! I only knew of the Milwaukee Hudson. Interesting link.
Well after a couple of weeks sitting in the box, I finally got a chance to set a test track and run the 4-4-2. It ran great going forwards, smooth running with no noises or wobbling. I ran it forward as a break-in run for about 10 minutes, then put in in reverse. I noticed the rear headlight didn't come on. After about five minutes, it stopped dead. No headlight, nothing. Drivers locked up tight. I could see no obstructions or anything. Very odd that it would go from running fine to nothing in a matter of seconds.
Having problems with mine, stop and go, will not run smooth, did you do anything to pick ups? Any hepl would be great!