As has been the case for quite a while, summer is a time when I take a hiatus from the hobby. Every year I have intentions of at least doing a little model railroading during the summer, but I never seem to find the time and this year was no exception. Before beginning this year's hiatus which began sometime in April, I had read that BLI was absolutely, positively going to finally release their long promised Dreyfus Hudson in July. As summer winds down, I am beginning to dabble a little bit with model railroading and one of the things I am curious about is whether BLI actually made their latest target date for release of his Hudson. I checked Factory Direct Trains and they are still offering this as a preorder. This leads me to believe that once again, BLI had failed to deliver on its promise. I quit gettting mad about this sometime ago. Now it is just comical and gets even funnier as one promised release date after another comes and goes. I'm just trying to confirm whether or not BLI finally met their target date for a release, or does their Dreyfus Hudson continue to be nothing more than an empty promise from a company that can't seem to get their act together.
The BLI Website says September 30th delivery as of today.
I have one on pre-order through my LHS. Maybe they got more orders than they could handle in time for release? Or maybe a problem came up and they wanted to fix it before delivery? All we can do is be patient.
I've seen plenty of posts of how BLI keeps delaying products. Believe it or not, it hasn't helped them to get it out any quicker.
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PRRT1MAN The BLI Website says September 30th delivery as of today.
Anyone betting they are going to make this one? Why do they even bother with a delivery date? They aren't going to make this one just like they haven't made the dozen delivery dates they have announced in the past. Every time they announce a new delivery date and fail to deliver, they make themselves look even more foolish. What a joke.
I just looked at the website and it only says "September" for the Hudson. The second run of the Centipede is scheduled for Sept. 30th.
Like I said before, it could be they got more orders than expected and couldn't fill them all in time, or there was a problem that needed to be fixed. Would you rather have them send what they've got and fill some orders, while other people still have to wait, or do you want to get something that may have an unresolved problem? I'd rather be patient.
jecorbettAnyone betting they are going to make this one? Why do they even bother with a delivery date? They aren't going to make this one just like they haven't made the dozen delivery dates they have announced in the past. Every time they announce a new delivery date and fail to deliver, they make themselves look even more foolish. What a joke.
Granted, the dates tend to be a "moving target" most of the time. However, BLI has to post something to keep people in the loop. Otherwise, they'd be getting dozens of e-mails a day inquiring when such-and-such a locomotive of piece of rolling stock was going to be released.
Things happen in industry that you just don't have control over - especially when your manufacturing plant is overseas. I'd rather have some sort of an "approximation" on a delivery date than no date at all.
Although I am looking forward to the Dreyfuss Hudson coming in on the arrival track, it'll get here when it gets here. I try not to get too bent out of shape over these sorts of things.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage jecorbettAnyone betting they are going to make this one? Why do they even bother with a delivery date? They aren't going to make this one just like they haven't made the dozen delivery dates they have announced in the past. Every time they announce a new delivery date and fail to deliver, they make themselves look even more foolish. What a joke. Granted, the dates tend to be a "moving target" most of the time. However, BLI has to post something to keep people in the loop. Otherwise, they'd be getting dozens of e-mails a day inquiring when such-and-such a locomotive of piece of rolling stock was going to be released. Things happen in industry that you just don't have control over - especially when your manufacturing plant is overseas. I'd rather have some sort of an "approximation" on a delivery date than no date at all. Although I am looking forward to the Dreyfuss Hudson coming in on the arrival track, it'll get here when it gets here. I try not to get too bent out of shape over these sorts of things. Tom
An approximation is when you announce something will be delivered in March, and the actual release date is June. When you announce something is "coming soon" in 2007 and you still haven't delivered it by the third quarter of 2010, that is a lie. What is even more ridiculous is that BLI has repeated this lie over and over and over again. They aren't going to deliver this product in September or any time in 2010. I'll gladly make a wager on that.
I once thought they were a great company. Now I consider them a joke. I don't care if they go belly up. They deserve it.
jecorbettI once thought they were a great company. Now I consider them a joke. I don't care if they go belly up. They deserve it.
And let MTH take over? Ehh, no.
Darth Santa Fe jecorbettI once thought they were a great company. Now I consider them a joke. I don't care if they go belly up. They deserve it. And let MTH take over? Ehh, no.
Say what you want about MTH, at least they can get their product to market. I've already bought their Empire State Hudson and will buy my Dreyfus Hudson from them as well. BLI could have had my money but their inability to deliver on their promises drove me to their competitor.
Funny how different people can be in their orientation to the hobby. I'd rather do without than purchase something with limited utility that costs as much or more to have in my possession.
I wouldn't call the only serious contender to MTH a joke. They may mislead in advertising, and I don't happen to agree with that practice, but when they produce their offerings you get a really nice HO locomotive that approaches brass quality in many cases. Heck, when did MTH bring a brass hybrid to market? And one that didn't have limited utility due to its operating system?
-Crandell
jecorbett Say what you want about MTH, at least they can get their product to market. I've already bought their Empire State Hudson and will buy my Dreyfus Hudson from them as well. BLI could have had my money but their inability to deliver on their promises drove me to their competitor.
When you get your MTH 20th Century Hudson, you'll notice that the side stripe on the tender and cab are about a scale foot or more too high. Looks like the BLI one is right where it should be. I'd just as soon wait a few months and get one that is right rather than rush into buying something because MTH's Chinese factory got their product out before BLI's Chinese factory did.
wjstix jecorbett: Say what you want about MTH, at least they can get their product to market. I've already bought their Empire State Hudson and will buy my Dreyfus Hudson from them as well. BLI could have had my money but their inability to deliver on their promises drove me to their competitor. When you get your MTH 20th Century Hudson, you'll notice that the side stripe on the tender and cab are about a scale foot or more too high. Looks like the BLI one is right where it should be. I'd just as soon wait a few months and get one that is right rather than rush into buying something because MTH's Chinese factory got their product out before BLI's Chinese factory did.
jecorbett: Say what you want about MTH, at least they can get their product to market. I've already bought their Empire State Hudson and will buy my Dreyfus Hudson from them as well. BLI could have had my money but their inability to deliver on their promises drove me to their competitor.
Just checked the BLI website. Delivery date has been pushed back again. Now it's October. October will roll around and then the delivery date will be moved back to November. Then December. Then early 2011. I would have been really happy to wait a few months for BLI's version. The trouble is I have been waiting 3 years. I can't believe people find this an acceptable business practice. I can live with the stripe being a scale foot too high. At least MTH has produced something I can put on my layout. BLI's promises won't pull much of a consist.
jecorbett Just checked the BLI website. Delivery date has been pushed back again. Now it's October. October will roll around and then the delivery date will be moved back to November. Then December. Then early 2011. I would have been really happy to wait a few months for BLI's version. The trouble is I have been waiting 3 years. I can't believe people find this an acceptable business practice. I can live with the stripe being a scale foot too high. At least MTH has produced something I can put on my layout. BLI's promises won't pull much of a consist.
What's your rush? Do you have a deadline that you need (not just seriously want) to have this on your layout by a certain date? If you've got an open house that you're hosting, or something like that, perhaps I can understand.
However, I see far too many things go wrong in the industry I'm involved in (IT/Software Development) principally because too many people wanted something too fast. I wonder if certain other big companies in the news during the past year got bitten by this. (following is all speculation, and my own NSHO): If Google had actually THOUGHT about data collection needs while preparing their Street View, then they could have avoided lawsuits in the US and EU. Maybe Toyota could have avoided taking a huge PR hit if they spent more time on brakes and ECUs? Maybe we wouldn't have a Gulf with millions of barrels of oil to clean up? Rushing often makes for shoddy product.
If you just need "something for your layout", i.e., anything that will pull trains, then go ahead and buy anything that's out NOW, and stop whining when a quality product takes time. Personally, I like that BLI is being honest and pushing dates back (although I'm not interested in the Hudson) because then I can reconsider my budget as necessary ("OK, that item XYZ which I was going to hold off until December because I'm expecting the Fox Valley Hiawatha steamer and cars in September, maybe I'll get it now instead.") Yeah, I won't have the Hiawatha for a couple of train shows this Autumn- so what? I won't lose any sleep over it, and I'll just run one of my other trains.
Yes, I know, my example describes a couple of months, instead of several years. Fine- so what? If it's so critical to have it NOW, it sounds like that's more-important than having it accurately detailed, or functioning well under DCC. Go ahead and buy the MTH, then. For myself, I'll be patient and wait for the product that meets MY needs.
jecorbettJust checked the BLI website. Delivery date has been pushed back again. Now it's October. October will roll around and then the delivery date will be moved back to November. Then December. Then early 2011. I would have been really happy to wait a few months for BLI's version. The trouble is I have been waiting 3 years. I can't believe people find this an acceptable business practice. I can live with the stripe being a scale foot too high. At least MTH has produced something I can put on my layout. BLI's promises won't pull much of a consist.
According to Matt Williamson on one of the BLI forum threads:
"These are scheduled to ship from our builder at the end of September. As always, something could come up, but I'm pretty confident these should be in stores in late October. I'll put a few final samples in the BLI Store later this month."
For me, I can live with waiting for a model that is going to be more accurate than getting one sooner that isn't. Again, that's me.
For a dabbler Jecorbett, you seem to be quite knowledgable about BLI, FDT, MTH, and a whole lot of other stuff. I'm curious why you felt the need to comment on the well-known delays in arrival BLI has had over the last few years. Not quite sure why your're getting so "mad" either since you went out and bought the MTH version.
I'll be bold enough to call a spade a spade and say definitively I doubt this is a real beef you have with some middling manufacturer of steam locomotives and their delivery schedules. Being from Utica, OH, you should have the good Midwestern manufacturing sense to know that rushing a product to market is what gets any company in trouble with quality problems (ahem, GM ring a bell friend?) .
I'd be a happier man if they spent the time fixing quality Chinese manufacturing at the front than having to send it down to Florida for a repair.
I'll sit back and be patient for my toy model I preordered. It's no big thing in the grand scheme of life. I'm only out $0.01 in the meantime. No worries.
I am no stranger to waiting for some product.
I just learned to make do with what is already out or will be out with a definite date. Atlas being one example. Sunset another. As some items have taken a number of years to reach the street. The wait was well worth it.
I have learned that no matter how long it took to get model x to the USA, there is ALWAYS at least one copy on sale on eBay after a time. Sometimes another Forum Member has something you want and a little business can easily be conducted without any trouble.
Everything has changed for everyone in the last few years or so. It aint what was 10 or more years ago. And I think in the future will see products from whoever is able to deliver it to the street first with or without mistakes or errors.
HI jecorbett...
I recently spoke with Ken Sylvestri from BLI at a train show and he explained that is a general rule, they will not produce anything until they have enough reservation demand to justify the cost of production.
This would explain why some products that have been announced take forever to get to market while others are either cancelled or get produced right away.
I good example of this is the release of the Centipedes - the popularity of this model has dictated 3 successive runs and the first run arrived in about 14 months - pretty good for BLI. Its really a matter of elementary economics for these guys.
At least they haven't asked for 20% down - then we the modelers start financing the company with our own money.
In regard to the 'near brass-like quality' of the Hybrid offerings, I can tell you having owned two of these myself( the UP 2-10-2 s), that the models simply did not live up to all the hype created about them. I returned mine after about a week - not because there was a problem with them - but just because I could not justify the higher cost of these models as compared to the Paragon - there really was no noticable difference - even the same old BLI sound files were used.
I think that a lot of modelers have lost faith with BLI too - I know I have. After exposure to some of their business practices, I'm not inclined to depend in them.
Still, I will probably buy future products - if there is something they are offering I want - we'll see. I own many of the older run models, like the executuve E9s, the PCM F3's and the WP Zephyer car set.
The recent fallout from the MTH lawsuit(which IMHO, was a justifiable action based on the merits of the case) has not helped them.
Another issue brought on by BLI's own decison, was to literally 'destroy' their dealer network - by 'mass dumping' of product on the open market at lower prices than what the dealers could by at wholesale - not a smart move. And amazingly, it is still going on - with the advent of FDT .
And with MTH having the advantage of far greater financial stability, the added advantage of having their own factory, and being able to bring high-quality models to the market on-time almost all the time,and at tremendous value, BLI is going to have an uphill climb.
The sales figures prove it - the once 'nose-snubbing' dealers who thumbed their noses at MTH coming into the HO market, are no longer able to ignore the fact that MTH is a player, is here to stay and is offering very high quality models that buyers want - at very competitive and affordable prices.
I just acquired my new SP Daylight 8- Car set and Articulated Car set from MTH. I was able to compare both MTH and BLI side by side and while both are excellent offerings, there is no comparision - thus my decision, they were also a little less expensive.
I hope BLI will change course and get back to the PCM days...that was a when the quality was at its peak.
Just my opinion.
Thanks,
HeritageFleet1
Sounds to me like another case of "I want what I want when I want it and if I don't get it I'll stomp my foot and throw a tantrum"!
Mark
Heritagefleet1 HI jecorbett... I recently spoke with Ken Sylvestri from BLI at a train show and he explained that is a general rule, they will not produce anything until they have enough reservation demand to justify the cost of production. This would explain why some products that have been announced take forever to get to market while others are either cancelled or get produced right away. I good example of this is the release of the Centipedes - the popularity of this model has dictated 3 successive runs and the first run arrived in about 14 months - pretty good for BLI. Its really a matter of elementary economics for these guys. At least they haven't asked for 20% down - then we the modelers start financing the company with our own money. In regard to the 'near brass-like quality' of the Hybrid offerings, I can tell you having owned two of these myself( the UP 2-10-2 s), that the models simply did not live up to all the hype created about them. I returned mine after about a week - not because there was a problem with them - but just because I could not justify the higher cost of these models as compared to the Paragon - there really was no noticable difference - even the same old BLI sound files were used. I think that a lot of modelers have lost faith with BLI too - I know I have. After exposure to some of their business practices, I'm not inclined to depend in them. Still, I will probably buy future products - if there is something they are offering I want - we'll see. I own many of the older run models, like the executuve E9s, the PCM F3's and the WP Zephyer car set. The recent fallout from the MTH lawsuit(which IMHO, was a justifiable action based on the merits of the case) has not helped them. Another issue brought on by BLI's own decison, was to literally 'destroy' their dealer network - by 'mass dumping' of product on the open market at lower prices than what the dealers could by at wholesale - not a smart move. And amazingly, it is still going on - with the advent of FDT . And with MTH having the advantage of far greater financial stability, the added advantage of having their own factory, and being able to bring high-quality models to the market on-time almost all the time,and at tremendous value, BLI is going to have an uphill climb. The sales figures prove it - the once 'nose-snubbing' dealers who thumbed their noses at MTH coming into the HO market, are no longer able to ignore the fact that MTH is a player, is here to stay and is offering very high quality models that buyers want - at very competitive and affordable prices. I just acquired my new SP Daylight 8- Car set and Articulated Car set from MTH. I was able to compare both MTH and BLI side by side and while both are excellent offerings, there is no comparision - thus my decision, they were also a little less expensive. I hope BLI will change course and get back to the PCM days...that was a when the quality was at its peak. Just my opinion. Thanks, HeritageFleet1
My problem with BLI is not their practice of generating enough preorders before they will begin production. That is a business decision they have every right to make. My problem is their practice of announcing delivery dates they have no intention of meeting. I expect companies that want my business to be honest with me. They should never have announced a single delivery date until their first production run was scheduled. They announced this product 3 years ago as "Coming Soon". It wasn't coming soon back then and I doubt it is coming soon now. In the mean time they have had a continuous string of promised delivery dates that just keep getting put off indefinitely. There is no nice way to put this. BLI has lied, and lied, and lied again to their customers. It is the old story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf. At some point, you just can't believe anything they tell you. I reached that point with BLI a long time ago. Businesses who treat their customers like this don't deserve to stay in business and I don't care if BLI does.
jecorbettMy problem is their practice of announcing delivery dates they have no intention of meeting. I expect companies that want my business to be honest with me. They should never have announced a single delivery date until their first production run was scheduled. They announced this product 3 years ago as "Coming Soon". It wasn't coming soon back then and I doubt it is coming soon now. In the mean time they have had a continuous string of promised delivery dates that just keep getting put off indefinitely. There is no nice way to put this. BLI has lied, and lied, and lied again to their customers. It is the old story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf. At some point, you just can't believe anything they tell you. I reached that point with BLI a long time ago. Businesses who treat their customers like this don't deserve to stay in business and I don't care if BLI does.
tstageAccording to Matt Williamson on one of the BLI forum threads: "These are scheduled to ship from our builder at the end of September. As always, something could come up, but I'm pretty confident these should be in stores in late October. I'll put a few final samples in the BLI Store later this month."
This is a pretty good sign, I'd say. I agree that BLI should've come up with a more solid delivery date, but at least we know they're honestly trying. Not much you can do if the actual builder won't get them out on time. I'm willing to be patient and wait for the BLI product.
Darth Santa Fe This is a pretty good sign, I'd say. I agree that BLI should've come up with a more solid delivery date, but at least we know they're honestly trying. Not much you can do if the actual builder won't get them out on time. I'm willing to be patient and wait for the BLI product.
BLI maybe be trying but I certainly don't agree with the honestly part. Honestly would have been to say we are taking preorders for this item and when we get enough to justify a production run, we will announce to our customers a delivery date. Had they done that, I would not have had not problem with the long delay. I ran out of patience with BLI a long time ago and I am not willing to wait for their product. Why should I wait indefinitely for them to make good on their promises given their track record of lying to their customers when one of their competitors has a product on the market I can use now?
I have waited for Haritage loco's from Walthers, Intermountain, Kato, and so on. They all were delivered at least 3 or 4 months after their scheduled release dates. I can't see why you got to pick on BLI, all the manufactures do it. Pick on Rapido some guys have been waitng for over a year for their stuff me being one of them. But I am not SNIVELLING about it.
Truck.
Truck I have waited for Haritage loco's from Walthers, Intermountain, Kato, and so on. They all were delivered at least 3 or 4 months after their scheduled release dates. I can't see why you got to pick on BLI, all the manufactures do it. Pick on Rapido some guys have been waitng for over a year for their stuff me being one of them. But I am not SNIVELLING about it. Truck.
I would have been delighted if BLI had only missed their target date for this product by 3 or 4 months. If they had done that I would have had their product on my layout for the past 3 years and they would have had my money that long. As it is, they have missed by three YEARS and still haven't delivered it. It flabbergasts me that so many people find this acceptable. I know of no other business where a company could stay in business by putting off their customers that long. Their customers would abandoned them for their competitors long before that. When I was in the work force, I could never have missed a target date on a project for that long. I would have been fired long before that. I don't care how good a product BLI makes. If they can't deliver it to me, it is useless. BLI is not a sacred cow to me and MTH is not Satan. If BLI can't deliver what I want in a timely manner and MTH can, MTH gets my business. If other people want to put up with BLI's "when we feel like it" atttude that's their business. I'm going with the company that can give me what I want in a timely manner.
I think the hudson will be coming out by the end of this year at the latest. According to Broadway's site, they are now officially sold out...
http://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx
rjake4454 I think the hudson will be coming out by the end of this year at the latest. According to Broadway's site, they are now officially sold out... http://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx
That's what they said last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. If and when BLI does ever actually get this product to market, the MTH version will already be on my layout and my money will be in MTH's bank.
jecorbett That's what they said last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. If and when BLI does ever actually get this product to market, the MTH version will already be on my layout and my money will be in MTH's bank.
JE:
HeritageFleet1 again...
I understand your frustrations and the Dreyfuss Hudson will probably eventually get to market - but who wants to wait 2-5 years for a product?? That's a felony prison term.
But I digress and I think the MTH version is a worthy competitor and will definitely be a better performer - there's a lot of MTH bashers that can't stand it when someone praises them so I'd just keep that in mind with advice about waiting for BLI.
On the other hand, The BLI model which has not been seen or reviewed to my knowledge, will most likely be a very good model too - my gripes with BLI are not necessarily about the models they produce - it's just how they keep on re-inventing themselves - it appears that they simply cannot make up their minds what they want to be as a model company.
With the vast majority of LHS and distributors not wanting- or willing- to carry their products anymore due to prior business practices, it will be very hard for them to achieve the status they once had.
I hope that the MTH model will be pleasing to you and I'm sure you'll be satisfied with your engine once you recieve it, should you go that direction.
Good luck to you.
BLI just updated their delivery schedule. It looks like there isn't much in the way of change with several models coming due over the next three months. Time will tell.
jecorbett rjake4454: I think the hudson will be coming out by the end of this year at the latest. According to Broadway's site, they are now officially sold out... http://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx That's what they said last year. And the year before that. And the year before that.
rjake4454: I think the hudson will be coming out by the end of this year at the latest. According to Broadway's site, they are now officially sold out... http://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx
That's what they said last year. And the year before that. And the year before that.
Not that I'm aware of, jecorbett. Every time I've viewed BLI's Product Delivery Schedule web page, it's always had "Yes" listed under the Still accepting orders? column for the Dreyfuss Hudson.
Heritagefleet1On the other hand, The BLI model which has not been seen or reviewed...
Reviewed? No. Seen? Yes!
At present there is 1 painted and 9 unpainted pre-production pics on the web site. (Click the View More Images link on this page for those samples.) Matt said that he'll post more painted Hudsons pics as time draws near.
I wouldn't worry about them being sold out. If they really have been delayed for so long, there will be plenty available because people died of old age waiting for them.
Springfield PA