Just happened to have one of my Genesis F units sitting next to one of my Proto 1000 F units the other day and was amazed at the difference between the two engines.
I guess I'm not much of a "rivet counter" as I had never noticed how much difference there is between the windshields and the nose contour between the two engines
At that point I got out one of my Intermountain F units as well as one of the Stewarts as well to compare them all.
The Intermountain is pretty much an exact double and the Stewart is very close to both of them but the Proto is way off the mark.
I don't have any of the Proto"2000" F units so I can't compare those.
I compared them both looking at them "head on" then from the side looking at the nose profile. Assuming the Athearn Genesis is "dead on" the money that Proto 1000 is way off, not really a serious problem until you park them side by side then it becomes noticeable.
I haven't dragged out one of my old MRC F units yet but it will be interesting to see how it compares with the Athearn and the Intermountain.
Nothing profound here, just the first time I had really noticed this....
Mark
No doubt the Athearn Genesis is among the best. I just acquired an Intermountain SP F7A shell and while very good it is not a nice as the Genesis. I have not seen a BLI or MTH next to a Genesis so I don't know how they compare.
Hi 49er,
Your point is quite understandable.
I consider myself a flexible "Protolancer" and can live with some minor discrepancies. The older run Proto 2000 E-units come to mind. The nose countour is off considerably, and although it bugs some modelers that I know, I can live with it.
Yet, the 1970s-early 90s Atlas FP-7 windshiels are too "squinty" eyed for me. A friend of mine improved his by filing the bottom of the windshiled opening about 2mm downward, which did improve the appearance.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Forty NinerI compared them both looking at them "head on" then from the side looking at the nose profile. Assuming the Athearn Genesis is "dead on" the money that Proto 1000 is way off, not really a serious problem until you park them side by side then it becomes noticeable.
Mark,
There's a vast difference between Proto 1000 detailing and Proto 2000 detailing. I think you'll find that the Athearn Genesis and Proto 2000s will rival one another.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I just did that not long ago with a Genesis F3A, an original Bachmann F9A, and a Life-Like/Mehano F9A. I knew the two cheaper ones were off, but I didn't realize just how off they are! And the Bachmann F9A is a direct copy of the Gem brass version, so I guess even brass has had a hard time getting it right.
_________________________________________________________________
Yes.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Say, there's an idea, perhaps if I filed the windsheild a bit on the Proto it wouldn't look so "squinty" either.
As for the nose, you really have to pick them both up and hold them side by side, otherwise that really isn't noticeable at all, unless you have "bionic" eyeballs in your head.
Mark, which F are you talking about? Are they F 2's, F'3's F-7's F-9's? I have Proto 2000 F-2, Proto 1000 F3's, Athearn F-7's and Stewart F-9's and they do all look different just like the Prototype do. (not that I could tell you differences) Are you comparing Proto F-3 to other F'3?
Long as they don't look stupid and run good, I don't real care if they are Prototypical or not.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
The model designation doesn't matter as I am comparing the windsheilds and the nose contour.............
I would think they could be different as well Mark. But a again like I know anything about details.
Ken
cudaken I would think they could be different as well Mark. But a again like I know anything about details. Ken
fortyniner has a point, there should be no difference between same brand/line F2, F3, F7, F9's regarding nose contour, windshields etc. I would expect that to be true for the Genesis F's, Proto 2000's and Stewart anyway, because the basic shell is the same part between all versions save the phase part which are installed based on which F unit is being offered.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It was much the same with the Alco FA cab units. Perhaps 20 years ago we assembled the offerings of something like 6 manufacturers from over the previous years and were awestruck at how they each interpreted the nose and cab windows so very differently. I can't remember which we decided was the closest, but it was a case of "the least wrong".
John
FWIW, all prototypical F-unit and E-unit noses were different from each other. Each one was handmade and involved lots of body filler and custom shaping to get the parts to fit. Therefore, minor variations should be okay. Grossly misshapened models are something else, however.
From what I've heard, Paul Lubliner of Highliner took measurements of 10 different F-units and averaged them to get the Genesis nose. I also heard he used a 1" grid and took data points at every grid point.
Paul A. Cutler III
I've looked at all the high-end plastic F-units, and in terms of appearance I rank them as follows:
Athearn Genesis
Intermountain
Walthers (Proto 2000)
Of the three, I like the Walthers units the least. I don't like the way the cab windows come to a point, and that boxy looking winter hatch looks absolutely hideous. If I decided to buy a Walthers F-unit that ugly winter hatch would have to go.
Hello,
I have been in the market for nice F units for a while as my hometown has an FP7 as a park display unit in MILW colors after the MILW line was removed from our area.
I rate them as the following;
Athearn FP7, Excellent
Highliners F Shells, Excellent (Identical, an exact match to Atherrn, thought ATH was a HL shell)
Intermountian FP7, Very good, Number boards are larger, & roof roll over winshield is a little taller than Ath & HL.
Proto 2000 F7 (most recent run), Very good, Head/Door lights are thicker/larger, numberboards are larger, roof roll over windshield is much taller & not as chamfered in, however, this would not be noticeable to many people. Also this needs a headlight treatment for the inside, I used a punch & drills & made a circle plate with two holes in it representing the dual reflector buckets.
All of these are great models, & I would take any one of them again. They are all very close to one another, more than a foot or two apart & you can't tell the differences. I have not included any of the less expensive models because they were not considered for my projects & therefore not purchased.
ChadLRyanHighliners F Shells, Excellent (Identical, an exact match to Atherrn, thought ATH was a HL shell)
The Genesis F-Units actually are the Highliner shells. A few years after Highliner released them, I believe Athearn bought the tooling to use in their then new Genesis line. Undecorated shell kits are still sold under the Highliner name.
Thanks! I'm putting away the caliper! I thought it looked the same, & thanks for validating it. I've enjoyed building Highliners shells quite a bit & really like them. Their phase/instruction sheet is an essential to any F series modeler -IMHO.
Also, I did mean Athearn 'Genesis' when I stated Athearn in my previous post. Didn't mean to confuse anyone.
With all this F-Unit talk, I decided to look at what Athearn's currently offering. I didn't realize just how much they've improved them recently!!
http://www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/LargeImages/ATHG22228.jpg
Things they're doing now that they didn't used to:More prototype specific detailFull pilot detailSpeed recorder cableGrab irons along the sides and top of the nose, as well as the ones above the windshieldPrototype specific fuel tank skirting
And I thought my F3A was detailed! All that along with Tsunami sound, and they're still no more expensive than their competitors! The only things that could make them any better now are Kato quality gearing (and the Genesis gearing is already excellent) and a perfect lighting system.
I have had problems with Athearn Genesis F Units, particularly assembly quality. I have had several units now that had issues with regard to paint, fit, finish, and sloppy glue marks that had been painted over, broken/crooked steps, etc. On top of that, some had bad wheel plating that begins to peal in certain areas within a few hours of being brand new. Also, the lights don't last at all. I do agree that a good Athearn--when you find one--looks fantastic.
However, Walthers P2K F units also look terrific--the only drawback being that I do not care for the visible plastic tabs on the edges of the window inserts--they are a bit distracting. The P2K units I received all looked outstanding--with better paint, fit and finish than the average Athearn Genesis unit. Additionally, the Walthers F's come with illuminated numberboards--which Athearn does not offer, and Walthers also offers road specific detailing. The Walthers grills look better to my eyes, partly because Athearn's factory is often a little sloppy with the tacky glue they use on theirs. Plus, the P2K units run great!
I personally would choose P2K over Genesis any day. Even though Athearn is now producing some paint schemes I'd almost kill to have, I just can't bring myself to buy any more Genesis engines.
Finally, where running qualities are concerned, I'm sorry to say that any of my Atlas diesels--even the inexpensive Trainman ones--seem to run more smoothly than the Genesis units.
My 2c.
Irv is not smiling........:-(
Darth Santa Fe I just did that not long ago with a Genesis F3A, an original Bachmann F9A, and a Life-Like/Mehano F9A. I knew the two cheaper ones were off, but I didn't realize just how off they are! And the Bachmann F9A is a direct copy of the Gem brass version, so I guess even brass has had a hard time getting it right.
Correct me though, but isn't the F3 nose shaoed different that the F9 nose in 1:1?
-Morgan