AC4400 - Kato vs. Athearn

[brothaslide]

I got the big go ahead to purchase a UP AC4400 in HO. Now my next choice is shall it be a Kato or an Athearn. I know that the Athearn RTR AC4400 is less expensive but the Kato is more detailed.

Which model do you all recommend and why?

[EL PARRo]

I've never owned either one, but I've heard that the Kato's, in addition to being more detailed, are also better runners.

[Anonymous]

I have 4 Kato´s (3 UP and 1 BNSF) and 1 Athearn.

The Athearn looks good in the first moment. but Athearn models a CTE and use an old body. My one, a RTR UP Flag unit, is a bad runner, loud and rough - Hey, its inside a good old Athearn!

The Kato´s are near perfect - well detailed, extreme powerful, smooth running, perfect slow running. I think that the running quality of Kato will be extreme better than Athearn

Athearn will bring also the SD70MAC in the Genesis series - I ordered the Kato´s - Will cost the same.

Okay, the Genesis model will have all the minor changes that were made in the SD70MAC line - each model will be 100 % (???) correct.

[Anonymous]

the Athearn body style is wrong for an CTE go with Kato you wont be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Kato, now shop for the best price. Take a look at www.firsthobby.com approx $102.00 to $105.00, depending on road name(UP Too)

[Anonymous]

I own 6 kato's thay are all BNSF:
I own 3 AC4400CW's.
and 3 SD70MAC's.
And I truly love em too.
[bow]BNSF[bow]

PS Ill tell you what go kato.....there so much nicer.

[BRAKIE]

Ford Escort Vs.The Toyota Camry..Of course the Escort is going to loose out..BTW I drive a Ford Escort....Athearn Vs.Kato same thing..

[CP5415]

The only fault I found with Athearn's offering of the AC4400 is it's too damn light.
I need to add some more weight to it.
Other than that, I like it

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Athearn: better paint, cheaper
Kato: Better drive, more correct for the UP units.

[cacole]

The Kato mechanism and detail are far better than Athearn products. Kato uses very high quality motors and gearing, and they run much quieter than Athearn models, even the new Athearn Genesis line, which costs almost as much as a Kato.

[csxns]

I got 20 Kato AC4400's they all run great got 2 CSX Athearns RTR they will do now the NAFTA RTR Athearn AC4400 is almost with the Katos.

[Anonymous]

If you like over sized grabs and hand rails and no depth to the sideframes go with katos. I have four(2 CNWs & 2 UPs flags exSPs) of the athearns and I added a few details(10-15 dollars worth) and some weight they pull great and got all four off ebay for no more then $55 each. Has soon as the katos go for that I may get one.

[AntonioFP45]

Good points by all.

I'm a long time Athearn owner. I would go for the Kato units. Body details like truck side frames can always be changed out. Me personally, my first priority is a smoooooooth, quiet drive that pulls "very low amps". Kato wins hands down.

If you decide to take the DCC route and even pursue sound, I've had an expert tell me that the lower the motor's current draw the better! Your powerpack will appreciate it too!

10-4!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Good points by all.

I'm a long time Athearn owner. I would go for the Kato units. Body details like truck side frames can always be changed out. Me personally, my first priority is a smoooooooth, quiet drive that pulls "very low amps". Kato wins hands down.

If you decide to take the DCC route and even pursue sound, I've had an expert tell me that the lower the motor's current draw the better! Your powerpack will appreciate it too!

10-4!

YEP - THAT`S IT

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxns

I got 20 Kato AC4400's they all run great got 2 CSX Athearns RTR they will do now the NAFTA RTR Athearn AC4400 is almost with the Katos.

20 KATO AC4400 ? Wow, And I think my 4 was much [:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

My first US model loco were 2 KATO UP Dash 9.

This was in 1996 (possible 1995).

I have a huge fleet of modellocomotives. also 3 or 4 brass models.

NO MODEL REACH THE RUNNING QUALITYS OF A KATO !!!!!

You will not see the thick handrails or not so real deep in the sideframes when the rodel runs one or two feet away on your layout.

AND ON THIS LOCATION KATO WILL BEAT ALL OTHERS!!!

Behind KATO comes ATLAS and LL2000. Some ATHEARNS are also not:
like F59PHI or my 2 RTR SD40-2 (UNITED WAY and CAMOUFLAGE).

But AC4400: KATO !

[Anonymous]

I have both and in the same paints. For apples to apples comparisons let’s take the UP units. I've had the RTR (UP) for a while and really like it. I just got the Kato (UP) a few weeks ago. It is one sweet loco - Kato paint for UP is always excellent (though I give Genesis a slight edge for UP paint, and the Athearn RTR UP paint is edged out by Kato UP paint). Once assembled the Kato AC is one fine looking loco. With the AC they have improved the handrails - they are not the stovepipe thickness of some of their other models, yet they are not so hair thin as to break easily. The trucks however were dumbed-down with this model - they have all details molded in, though that can be easily remedied with aftermarket details. The two large canted air tanks that straddle the fuel tank are also molded in. So the Athearns have better truck and air tank details. Having said that, though, once you get out past 18" from the model, the Kato trucks and tanks look fine (at least in the UP gray, the BNSF silver trucks require 24 - 30".)

The Kato has very nice pilot and rear details, which the Athearns are missing, though the aftermarket details are easily applied to the Athearns. The grabs on the Kato are still a bit thick and several are molded in grey when they should be armor yellow, though a little Floquil can easily correct that. The Athearn grabs are more realistic because they're thinner (they're wire) and are painted appropriately for the locations they're applied too. You can also easily use aftermarket grabs for the Kato, if you want thinner, metal grabs. The Kato's do require quite a bit of work and time to assemble. I have assembled dozens of Branchline, Intermountain, Red Caboose etc kits, as well as many other Kato locos. Personally, however, I don't know if I have much more desire to continue doing such assembly (I'm getting older).

The BNSF heritage II paint on these Kato AC's is gorgeous and IMHO a dramatic improvement compared to their BNSF H2 paint on their Mac’s. I don’t care for the Athearn RTR AC's BNSF H2 paint. On the Kato AC’s the BNSF H2 paint is almost as good as the Genesis SD70 BNSF H2 paint (which I consider to be one of the best). Personally, I didn't care for the Kato SD70MAC, yet their GE AC is one of my favorites! And I’m more of an EMD fan than a GE fan. Go figure.

Be aware too, though, that some have reported problems with the pc boards inside the Kato AC’s frying on them. Many will tell you they’ve not experienced this problem (neither have I, …yet) which is good, but don’t presume it won’t or can’t happen. Don’t overly concern yourself with it, but also don’t be blind to the possibility either. Just be aware of it. There are precautions I take to make this a non-issue.

After building the Kato AC and being thrilled & enamored with the end results, I thought I might not like the Athearn RTR as much as I had prior. However, after next comparing them side by side and running them together (along with a Kato UP SD90mac UP – another fine locomotive) I actually came to appreciate the Athearn RTR loco more than I had earlier. Running them together also surprised me in that the Athearn was found to be a better puller – being slightly faster, it would actually drag the Kato at times. Your mileage may vary – my layout has lots of grades. Further, I didn’t find my RTR unit to be a real current draw hog that others contend them to be. Besides, I MU 3-4 (sometimes 5) locos, and with many grades, so among my power supplies, I have one beefy one (home built) that can easily handle large MU’d consists when I desire to do so – thus I avoid having current draw even being an issue. Again, though, I don’t consider the RTR’s to be current hogs.

One last difference is the cost. I buy only at discount, but even steeply discounted, the Katos cost me $30.00 more ($100 vs $70). No matter, when it’s all said and done, I would give the edge to the Kato units. Similarly, when running them together, I like the looks of the Kato on the point with the Athearn in the 2 spot (a close second LOL). For this model railroader, the edge is not that large. I really like both of these models, This is a great time to be in the hobby.

Greg

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SWchief

I have both and in the same paints. For apples to apples comparisons let’s take the UP units. . . . . .

SWchief,

That was one incredible review!!!!!!!!!! I was very impressed. I would love to read more product comparisons. I think it would help to inform us all, and hopefull, the manufacturers would get the point and read our reviews on these message boards and respond by fixing the concerns noted by the authors.

[Anonymous]

I'm truly glad to be of some help. Funny thing is how Kato and Athearn are almost like Ford and Chevy trucks - some love one and love to hate the other and visa versa. Both brands have strongpoints and weakpoints and sometimes they're the same and sometimes quite different. I enjoy reading others opinions and they do help in my decision to buy or not, but I also want non-opinion based information (ie, facts) as well. This love / hate thing can leave opinions overwhelming or hiding the facts (good or bad), and does not provide an accurate picture. Lovefesting or bashing either Kato or Athearn (or whoever) can even be beyond opinion - bordering more on obsession and blindness LOL.

The good news is that it appears the mfg'rs are indeed listening and acting to what the various people are posting on the boards. In the case of Kato and the AC's, they made two changes that I think may be direct responses / reactions to the public's requests. The changing of the truck side frames from seperately applied parts to molded on parts might be the first step towards less assembly being required. I hope I'm wrong in that regards though. While I'd like to not to have to do so much assembly with such small parts, I don't want them molded on either. Rather, I think we all still want the fine details, but more and more we don't want to have to be the ones to apply those fine details - rather we'd like them to come already fully or near fully assembled (like the newer Genesis, Atlas, P2k, IM, etc offerings.) The new AC's stanchions and handrails appear to be a very positive response by Kato to the recent discussions on the thicknesses of handrails. Many have complained that that Kato handrails have been too thick, while others have suggested that they would prefer the handrails to remain thick so as to maintain their ruggedness and be less prone to the breakage problem caused by thinner rails. I was torn on the issue because some of the Kato handrails were indeed noticeably thick and ugly (though different paint schemes appear to enhance or dimini***he perception/effect), but I also prefer the rails not become overly fragile, even if they look better. Kato answered my desire in this regard very satisfactorily. They did appear to make the rails thinner and better looking on the AC's yet they are still not so thin as to be too fragile. My hat's off to them for listening and responding!! I also think the overal details and molding on this model are more crisp than any other Kato thus far. Very impressive and very much in line with what the other mfg'rs are offering.

Pardon my diatribe here. The best thing is to just enjoy the hobby!

...and Have a great weekend.

Greg

[Anonymous]

Ford is better hands down.

[csxns]

Kato is better hands down.

[Anonymous]

I just bought both of them and have ran them. Out of the box the Kato can run at a slower pace then the Ready to Roll Athearn. I do have another Kato, an SD90MAC, I bought the AC4400CW because of its performance over the Genesis SD-70. My only complaint is the the Athearn engines have realistic lighting system on them. Kato have some cool blueish-white light that I don't like.

If you have the money to buy one get a Kato If you are on a budget then the Athearn RTR
is the way to go. Do wieght it though.

FYI I have 7 engines. 2 real old SD40T-2 , 2 AC4400CW 's oneSD-70M, all Athearn.
One AC4400CW and One SD90MAC both Kato. I hooked all my cars to these individually and the old Athearns out pulled all buy at least 15 cars. Something to think about.

[Anonymous]

With the blue-ish white light on the Kato, have you tried tinted film material? I glued a small piece of a yellow/orange-ish film material to the light receptors and it changed the color of the lights to a more acceptable glow.

[brothaslide]

After all this discussion - I finally ended up buying a Genesis SD70M; Union Pacific with Flag.

The next purchase will be the Kato AC4400.

[Anonymous]

I can't argue with that choice. I like those SD70's as much as I like the Kato AC4400. When you get your next loco (that Kato AC4400) you'll really like consisting it with that SD70M. The Kato's and Genesis' UP paints match well together and they both run well together too. You might also want to consider the Kato SD90MAC. I like running two SD70's and one SD90 in a consist. I'd even run three SD70's with the 90, or perhaps two SD70's, one SD90 and the AC4400, except my layout is only 6-1/2 by 11, and 4 units on the point starts to look out of place. I'm better off putting the fourth unit either midtrain or at the rear as a helper. Enjoy the hobby.
Have a happy 4th!

Greg

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SWchief

You might also want to consider the Kato SD90MAC.

Oh man - now I'm going to go through the engine purchase catharsis all over again!

[Anonymous]

Awesome discussion and thanx 110% for the detailed comparison.

I have several UP AC4400s (Kato) and agree with evrything said about them (including the several hours needed to assemble).

I am considering CSX AC4400s from Athearn Genesis and was wondering if anyone had any comments particular to the Genesis AC and CSX version. Since Kato doesn't offer CSX (or at least has not yet), my choice is obviosly limited but the input would help on the go/no-go decision.

My highpoints are more the details (including accuracy of particulary details to particular roads and lack of detials that should be there). Running is less important.

[Anonymous]

Sorry -- make that Athearn RTR CSX -- none in Genesis yet.

[Anonymous]

I recommend going with the Kato, I have an Athearn AC, and a Kato AC, The Kato is superior in allmost every respect, The Kato runs much better, quieter, with more tractive effort than the Athearn model, Go with Kato.


Mac

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

Kato, now shop for the best price. Take a look at www.firsthobby.com approx $102.00 to $105.00, depending on road name(UP Too)

I just purchased and AC4400 - Building America from First Hobby. The price was right at $105.

Now all I need is a layout to run the AC4400 and SD70M that I just picked up, hmmmm. . . . . .