Hello Crew,
These two Budds were metalized with Alclad 2 #107, and lightly weathered. However, a different base color was applied to each car. Amazing what a difference the foundation makes! I was made aware that there have been ongoing "web" arguments with how the sheens of Budd, Pullman Standard, and ACF appear. The answer is that it's varied due to age, care/neglect, weather, restoration, etc. As pointed out by Carl Marchand, photos in books/magazines are often edited. In some photos, Post WWII Budd and PS cars look almost "white", yet in some other shots the sheen appears quite dark.
But instead of making this issue a brain-buster, imho, we should try to keep this simple. A friend of mine prefers the "worn, whitish look" that so many passenger cars had just before Amtrak. However, my point to him was that railroads like the Santa Fe, Southern, and SCL had many cars that still exhibited a beautiful darker stainless steel sheens. That's my preference. However, based on my experiments, I respectfully suggest that anyone can have both by using the base colors I've experimented with below.
1) Walthers Budd Diner refinished and decaled into the Seaboard Coast Line Railroad scheme. Diner name: St. Petersburgh (ex-ACL). Base foundation color underneath Alclad 2 #ALC-107: NEW YORK CENTRAL DARK GRAY. I'll talk more about base colors later on this thread.
Indoor:
Outdoor:
OK, now here's a photo of a prototype SCL passenger train with Budd cars: (photographer: Martin K O'Toole)
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Weather worn effect:
2) Rivarossi Budd Coach metalized and decaled into Seaboard Coast Line Railroad scheme. Coach prototype number: 5211 (ex-Seaboard Air Line). Base foundation color underneath Alclad 2 #ALC-107: NEW YORK CENTRAL LIGHT GRAY.
Indoor Photo:
Outdoor Photos:
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
On the left is the NYC light gray, on the right the NYC dark gray.
Alclad ALC-107 in the center:
My preference for Scalecoat 2 as a base color stems from the convenience of air brushing a high gloss paint product that cures to a hard finish quickly and requires no clear coat step. However, for all other paint projects, I use Pollyscale and Badger Modelflex although I have used solvent based clears on Alclad in very thin coats..
One more thing to take into consideration concerning the lightness or darkness of these type of cars in photos is the sky under which they are photographed. Being highly reflective, and all other things being equal, a car under a clear sky (blue!) will appear darker than one under a cloudy sky with diffuse lighting!
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Really nice work there. Thanks for posting. For those interested I found this site earlier on which goes into detail on using the Alclad paints: http://www.swannysmodels.com/Alclad.html
Lance
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at: www.lancemindheim.com
Very good point George.
Guys, thank you for the kind words, I also must thank the Atlantic Coast Line & Seaboard Airline Historical Society for working with Microscale to produce the SCL passenger car decals. The artwork and material quality of the decals is excellent!Here is the updated procedure that I've been working with for metalizing plastic shells:
I no longer use black for a foundation base color, as in the past: Based on my experimenting, I now use either New York Central Dark Gray (deep sheen effect) or New York Central Light Gray (faded sheen effect).1. After paint stripping your shells, wash them thoroughly in soapy water. Scrub gently with a soft toothbrush. Dawn or Ivory Liquid soaps work very well and leave no residue. 2. Make sure the surface is SMOOTH and doesn't feel slippery. It's preferable not to scuff the surface unless absolutely necessary. If so, "very lightly" scuff the surface in a horizontal direction with either a 3M gray scotch pad (available at most Home Depots)or 3M 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. 3. Mask off the interior walls and all window openings. Final clean the surface with wax/grease remover.4. Air brush needle size for the base color should be either medium or fine. Apply 1 to 2 thin coats of high gloss gray paint to the exterior. For Scale Coat paint, Mix 1 part thinner to 1 part paint (50/50). Air Pressure for Scale Coat 2 set at 20-25 psi. Practice applying the gray on scrap styrene or junker rolling stock first. The key here is that the final finish appear very smooth and slick. If you're using an acrylic, apply 1 to 2 gloss coats of clear. Allow the finish to cure thoroughly. With SC-II, I now give it 3 to 4 days. For acrylics, it's good to play it safe and wait at least 5 days. 5. Alclad #107 step: Airbrush needle size: FINE works best! But medium will do the job too. For Paasche, fine would be a #1 needle) Air pressure: between 12psi and 15psi. The fan width should be very narrow. Air brush distance to shell: 1 to 2 inches. Stroke Speed: medium speed. Not slow, not fast. 5a.Lightly spray each of the sides and roof in long strokes, as if you were using a slim paint brush. Do not dump it on! If you missed a spot, don't worry. Catch it on the next coat. After your first coat, wait 10 minutes (if humidity is high, 5 minutes if the air in your room is dry). Yes, it looks transparent-dark gray, don't worry, that's normal. Wait 10 minutes. Remember, if you dump it on, you'll be gritting your teeth. (yes, ask me how I know! )5b. Apply your 2nd Alclad coat, same technique as above. Make sure you get into the little crevices around the diaphrams (I don't bother removing mine). After you finish this 2nd coat, WALK AWAY from the shell and don't look at if for at least 10 minutes. Come back and check it out. If it's still a bit dark, apply a 3rd thin coat of the Alclad. You'll likely be smiling when you finish. Don't worry if it looks too shiny. If a 4th coat is needed, apply it with a slightly faster stroke.6. Wait 1 to 2 days. Apply one thin wet, even coat of acrylic based Gloss Clear coat. This will tone the shine down, which is what we want. If using solvent based clear, wait at least 3 days. 7. Apply your decals. You can use Microset normally to move decals into postion. However, when using Microsol to set them in place, apply lightly around the decal edges. 8. Now for your "sheen effect": Apply another thin coat of gloss clear to seal your decals. Your model's finish should be similar to my Walther's finish. 8a. Decision time. If you want your cars finish to appear more "aged" then add another coat of gloss clear, and so forth until you get the weathered sheen desired. Don't over do it or you'll wind up with a finish that looks similar to a floquil silver . However before toning down the sheen too much, check photos of the prototypes. The Santa Fe, Atlantic Coast Line, Southern, and CB&Q did a nice job of maintaining their streamlined cars' overall appearances.
Tip regarding windows: Modeler Howard Gillespie uses a very fine tip black marker and paints the outside edges of the window glass inserts to help simulate the black rubber gaskets around the windows.
Great posts. Thanks. Like the units with the darker base coat.
Who do you buy your Alclad from?
HoosierLineWho do you buy your Alclad from? Lance
2464 West Brandon Blvd.Brandon, FL, 33511(813) 655-6366
They're very good about keeping Alclad paint products in stock. However, you can email Alclad and ask them. This website here might be helpful to you: http://www.alclad2.com/buy.html#usa
But be aware that there are more stores that stock Alclad than what is listed. The two Hobbytown stores in the Tampa/Brandon area are examples of this.
Here are shots that, I think, better display the differences between the gray base colors. I've looked at hundreds of photos and noticed that sheens and stainless steel hues do vary. Look at this Budd car that has a faded type of sheen. Notice that the hue has more of a grayish silver appearance as the Rivarossi car above. http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=69824&nseq=79The cool factor in this that we can adjust our sheens based on how light or how dark our gray base color is. The colors I've suggested, imho, are a good base reference. One can lighten or darken as wanted. One worry that should be "debunked" is that streamlined cars in the train of the same time period pretty much looked the same. Not so. Again, thanks to "well-meaning" editors, photos in publicity shots back in the day often depicted some secondary streamliners that had a mix of ACF, PS, and Budd cars coupled together having a uniform sheen. However, color and black/white photos from railfans showed something different! ACF cars looked as or more white than Budds, while Pullman Standards were slightly darker. We're talking coupled together, same film, same time. The point: Don't worry too much about trying to get this perfect as the prototypes certainly weren't as far as uniformity. Just have fun with this. I'm a bit of a free lancer and am choosing to metalize ALL of my cars with the same, darker sheen as the Walthers above that's similar to the prototype SCL train in the photo. A friend of mine, who worked for the SAL, prefers the lighter sheen for his cars. In the end, the results will most likely appear more prototypical than with "silver paint" .
Thanks. I see Horizon Hobby also carries it so I tacked the Alclad onto an order I had for them. I'm anxious to try this out. We'll see if you really can teach an old dog new tricks :) By the way, if you're in Brandon consider attending the prototype modelers convention in Cocoa Beach in January. Your cars would be a big hit. Lance Mindheim Visit Miami's Downtown Spur: www.lancemindheim.com
Thanks. I see Horizon Hobby also carries it so I tacked the Alclad onto an order I had for them. I'm anxious to try this out. We'll see if you really can teach an old dog new tricks :)
By the way, if you're in Brandon consider attending the prototype modelers convention in Cocoa Beach in January. Your cars would be a big hit.
Lance Mindheim
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur: www.lancemindheim.com
AntonioFP45 ..... Thanks much for sharing your work with Alclad. ... I have been using a blend of automotive metalic paint in an effort to match BLI California Zephyr cars. Better than normal HO silver paint cars, but still not right. ..... I tried the thin foil stuff on an observation car, too. The obs looked like a foil wrapped baked potato, and so I got rid of the foil stuff. .... You inspired me to try this product next time I'm working on passenger cars. Your hints on selecting the undercoat are appreciated. .
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Heartland Division CB&Q AntonioFP45 ..... Thanks much for sharing your work with Alclad. ... I have been using a blend of automotive metalic paint in an effort to match BLI California Zephyr cars. Better than normal HO silver paint cars, but still not right. ..... I tried the thin foil stuff on an observation car, too. The obs looked like a foil wrapped baked potato, and so I got rid of the foil stuff. .... You inspired me to try this product next time I'm working on passenger cars. Your hints on selecting the undercoat are appreciated. .
Guys,one other thing: I've gotten some private emails regarding Alclad. Remember: For smooth results when applying the Alclad, keep the airbrush close to the model! 1" to 1 1/2" with a thin or closed fan (fine needle). Just to be safe: After you've applied the gloss gray base on your passenger car shell and you're about to apply the Alclad, test yourself first on a small piece of plastic material that has a smooth, glossy surface. Apply your base color on it as well. (Discarded CD music cases work well!)If you like the results on your practice piece, then go for it!
AntonioFP45 Guys, be aware that you can use good quality paints from various manufacturers. Alclad will work over cured acrylics as well. On the left is the NYC light gray, on the right the NYC dark gray. Alclad ALC-107 in the center: My preference for Scalecoat 2 as a base color stems from the convenience of air brushing a high gloss paint product that cures to a hard finish quickly and requires no clear coat step. However, for all other paint projects, I use Pollyscale and Badger Modelflex.
Guys, be aware that you can use good quality paints from various manufacturers. Alclad will work over cured acrylics as well.
My preference for Scalecoat 2 as a base color stems from the convenience of air brushing a high gloss paint product that cures to a hard finish quickly and requires no clear coat step. However, for all other paint projects, I use Pollyscale and Badger Modelflex.
Well, my Alclad 2 came in Friday so I decided to give it a test run. Your tutorial really helped. Having never used Alclad before a few things stuck out to me:
-Alclad really does have a different feel than other paints. Once you get over that, in some ways it's easier to work with than traditional paint. It is just really thin. Once you get used to it, it lays down like satin.
-Being so thin, any speck of dust, anything on the surface of the model really stands out. As you mentioned, you REALLY need a clean surface.
-Your suggestion of practicing first was great advice. Today, I just started with some styrene scraps. I'm glad I didn't start with a model first.
-The base primer colors make a big difference. I did one simple over winter gray, another over gloss black. The different looks are handy.
Thanks again for posting this.
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
Hoosier,
I'm very glad that the info was helpful. With a little practice, one can get used to applying it comfortably. Hopefully more modelers will be posting photos of metalized passenger cars; especially some of you guys that are gifted with impressive detailing and weathering skills. I'm looking forward to seeing photos of scale streamliners shot in daylight that look so realistic that persons staring at them will think they're looking at prototypes.