Picked up an old Tenshodo GN 2-8-2 kit

[climaxpwr]

Picked up an unbuilt Tenshodo GN 2-8-2 brass engine kit.  Everything is still sealed in thier packages.  only damage from all the years in storage is one of the steps/ladders from the pilot deck to the running board is damaged/missing, other side is fine.    Should build up into a nice model once I assemble and paint the engine.  I will get some pics of the kit posted when I get some spare time this weekend.   Cheers  Mike and Michele T

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

Sounds like a really fun project!

[Darth Santa Fe]

I look forward to seeing it! Are you going to build it as is?

[Forty Niner]

Those are tremendously (?) solid old engines that will run forever without a wimper but.....................considering the age "now" would be an excellent time to consider redetailing that loco and installing a can motor.

With some time spent installing new castings and additional details such as brake hangers you can make that engine look as good as any available today only able to pull a lot more because of the weight of the locomotive.

I haven't worked on one of those for several years now but my Dad was a Great Northern fan and had several of these. I set them up assembly line style and went through each one for him. They became the pride of his fleet and he ran them constantly as the only thing that would out pull them was an old set of "metal" Varney F3 diesels he had, crude by todays standards but back then it was "state of the art". Actually they didn't look to darn bad, seperate railings and such we thought they were "hi-tech" in 1968!!

Little did we know eh?

Good luck on your project, just take your time and "enjoy"............

Mark

[Bdewoody]

Several years ago I was on the verge of buying a Bowser locomotive kit to test my skills but then my hip replacement came along and other issues buried thoughts of such a project.  Now that my situation is about to stabilize I am regainingv interest in building a steam locomotive kit.  One I almost bought was a 2-8-4 Berkshire but I have forgotten the manufacturer.

[Forty Niner]

Arbour Models????

[climaxpwr]

Avoid those old Arbour models like the plague!  Horrible to build and get to even try and run.  Now the Bowser kits are a pleasure to build. I have built two of the Challengers, a K4 and a M1a mountain.  All ran great with the supplied open frame motors.  I dont mind the open frame motors in my older brass as long as they run good, but if they are noisy, weak magnets(ie they get hot when running and lack power) or have vibration issues, then I replace them with one of the Sagami motors I have stashed in my parts supply.  I have had both Tenshodo and PFM open frames run as quiet and smooth as a modern can motor, but I have also had ones that vibrated and ran hot.   Mike

[Bdewoody]

Forty Niner

Arbour Models????

I believe those are the ones.  Thanks.

[Forty Niner]

Climxpwr (sorry if I goofed that) is right about avoiding those Bob, they weren't a good kit 30 odd years ago and age has not improved them any either.

An"unbuilt" Varney kit can be fun as well as challenging but those are about as easy to find as chicken lips.

The Bowser kits are really the old Penn Line kits and they are good, solid design models.

That Tenshodo GN 2-8-2 "kit" is really misnomer, especially compared to the Bowser/Penn Line kits. They're called "kits" only because they need to be assembled, as in do you own a small screw driver?

They came about in the 1950's as a result of import tarriff's on models and/or toys. I've forgotten just how that was but basically toys had a higher tax than models or vice versa, anyhow it was a way to not only offer cheaper models but avoid a silly import tax. Eventually they changes the law and that was the end of the brass "kit".

An outfit called DJH also made lits in the 1970's, they were definetely on the "craftsman" side of the fence but built into beautiful models. However if my memory is correct they only offerd a USRA 2-8-2 and a USRA 4-6-2. With those available as relatively inexpensive models today you have to really "want" to build a kit to make that worthwhile. They would be a good choice though if you wanted to build something that will keep you occupied for quite awhile. I received one as a "gift" from my uncle, the problem was I could buy a nice PFM USRA 2-8-2 at the time for about $60 and the old Gem/Fuji versions could be had for even a little less so my incentive to build one just wasn't there. I was still at that "let's get this done" age, how many decades ago................

Anyhow, hope this has helped you make a decision in that direction, any further questions just ask............

Mark

[7j43k]

Forty Niner

They came about in the 1950's as a result of import tarriff's on models and/or toys. I've forgotten just how that was but basically toys had a higher tax than models or vice versa, anyhow it was a way to not only offer cheaper models but avoid a silly import tax. Eventually they changes the law and that was the end of the brass "kit".

The "regular" Tenshodo line imported by PFM in the '50's and later generally came as a kit or RTR (except for Crown versions). The RTR was painted. The kit was $5 cheaper and unpainted. Mike can probably better describe the pieces in the kit, as all I bought were the RTR versions (one GN 2-8-2 and two GN 4-8-4's).

The "import tax" versions of brass trains came along some years later. If they were assembled, they must have been a "toy train" and subject to higher import duties; but if they were kits, they had to have been "not-toys", since a real grown up would have to put them together; and thus they were taxed at a lower rate. By this time, I think even Tenshodo MAY have stopped making the old kits--pretty much everything was shipped assembled (and usually unpainted). So we had a new version of a kit. The manufacturer took off a part (frequently the pilot)--voila, a KIT. The aforemention grown up attached the pilot--thus NOT a toy. The tax codes were later changed (again), and the locos again arrived with the pilots attached.

Incidentally, the GN 2-8-2 came with a 48 to 1 gearbox, while the 4-8-4 came with a 36 to 1 ratio (and STAINLESS tires--good for pulling!)

Ed

[climaxpwr]

I got the chassis together, but the lead driver set is slightly out of quarter!  Runs great without the side rod screws in that set. I took one quick shot and eyeballing the quartering before we went out to dinner and didnt get it right.  I normaly can get them "spot on" when I take my time.  I will take another crack at it later tonight.  Otherwise I will have to save up some pennies and get a NWSL quartering tool.  The old open frame runs great with plenty of power.  Gotta love stainless rims and axles instead of plated brass.  I noticed one tender step is missing on the rear end, so thats another piece I will have to hunt up from Cal Scale ect.  Hopefully I will have the chassis running smoothly later tonight.   It is a screw driver kit, all the soldering is already done, but I am going back thru to resolder a few loose items.  Overall the kit was in very good shape for 40+ years old.   I did have to file the axle slots so the bearing blocks would slide down in the frame, they are not sprung though.  Cheers  Mike

[climaxpwr]

Pic time, these are how the kit looked when I purchased it.  I did get the driver requarted correctly so it now runs decent, stiff but decent.  It will spend a couple of hours on the test leads before I track test and prep for paint.   Mike

[7j43k]

Lookin' like a good bit of fun!

I'm pretty sure that Tenshodo only put the stainless tires on the 4-8-4. They made kind of a big thing about that when they came out. Yours are most likely nickel silver or plated brass. I don't think they ever used the stainless tires on anything else, and that would include some of the later and more detailed runs of the 4-8-4. I think. Stainless is kind of un-fun to machine, and I think they thought we didn't appreciate it enough to keep doing it. I know I sure do/did. My two 4-8-4's with the stainless tires are real pullers, and I wish they had kept doing it.

I think W&R may have used stainless tires on their recent NP/SP&S 0-6-0's to maximize traction--emphasis on "may"!

Ed

[climaxpwr]

Did all the 4-8-4's have them then, or just certain runs?  I am looking at one of the S-1's that came in seperate boxes for the engine and tender.  I know my last S-1 that I had pulled very well.  Mike

[climaxpwr]

Another pic, this time with her up on blocks running in the drive system.  Being this version doesnt have any sprung drivers, I am gonna load her up with lead so she will really pull well.  As soon as I get paid for the N&W engine I sold, I will be purchasing an older run S1 Northern, the version that comes in seperate boxes for engine and tender.  Then all I need to find is one of Tenshodo's GN cabooses.   Enjoy the pic!  Mike

[Anonymous]

 Got yourself a beauty there, Mike!

Keep us posted on your progress - I like to see it all spruced up and painted!

 

[7j43k]

climaxpwr

Did all the 4-8-4's have them [stainless tires] then, or just certain runs?  I am looking at one of the S-1's that came in seperate boxes for the engine and tender.  I know my last S-1 that I had pulled very well.  Mike

I believe Tenshodo stopped using the stainless tires on later runs of the S-1. I think they eventually added brake hangers on these models, and I'm guessing that that's when the stainless stopped. If it really did. There were MANY runs of the S-1.

My two (early) S-1's had stainless tires and they also had pretty obvious machining marks on the tires (unlike any other tires I've studied on brass engines). I would recommend looking for those marks--it'll mostly look "rough" rather than "smooth".

Ed

[climaxpwr]

What is the min radius that the S1's will handle?  I wanna say its 24" or 22"  I am sure the 2-8-2 will handle 22 or maybe even tighter at slower speeds like in a yard.  I will have a small layout with 22" curves probably being the max radius.  The sad part is I can get a nice S1 for less than I can get a 0-8 Mikado!   Guess I need to break out my atlas track and see what my Mikado will do on various curves so I can decide whether to buy another 0-8 or a S-1.  Rather have the big S1.  I would love to get one of the little 2-8-0's that PFM imported, but they are usualy up around $300+.  I can get an S-1 for around 245 shipped or a 0-8 for 250 shipped, both are factory painted models.   I want to build my little layout in an "old school' styling and use Tru Scale track/roadbed.  Does anybody know what radius they offered thier roadbed with the premilled ties and the self gauge feature?  The whole club layout here in town is all True Scale road bed.  Looks great when running vintage HO trains on it.  My layout size will be around 4x6 to 4x8 but not an exact 4x8.  Gonna use one of the track plans in an old Model Railroader and modify it a bit to get a 22R curve at the min around the outside to run the steamers on. yard and inner tracks will be a mix of 22R and 18R.   Mike    Part 2:  I laid some atlas 22R curves on my old mini layout that I still have the table for, not enough room for a full circle, just a half circle with a few straights on one side.  The Mikado will do 22R ok, but thats all it wants.  With a fairly ridged wheelbase and unsprung drivers that are all flanged, plus the GN 0-8 is a pretty big Mikado.  So I will have to stay with 22R curves if I want to run this engine at home.   Mike

[7j43k]

Mike,

My S-1's worked fine on 22" radius curves. PFM listed them as accepting 22" (and the O-8 as 20"). I think the only thing that may or may not need attention is the drawbar between engine and tender. You MIGHT have to modify yours. But I do know mine ran on 22", one way or another. Someday when you get a 48" minimum radius, you can replace the drawbar so the engine and tender gap is shrunk to a more proper gap.

I think the S-1 is a better model than the O-8. It was also my first brass engine--got it sometime in the early sixties. I had my $55 in hand and went down to Clark Keene's shop in DC. I was trying to decide between the S-1 and a Santa Fe 2-10-2. Both were/are pretty nice engines. I picked the GN one because it came painted, and my abilities with an airbrush were far, far into the future.

climaxpwr

I want to build my little layout in an "old school' styling and use Tru Scale track/roadbed.  Does anybody know what radius they offered thier roadbed with the premilled ties and the self gauge feature? 

From an August 15, 1958 pamphlet: Tru-Scale offered their self-gauging and their plain roadbed in 2" increments from 14" to 36" radius. They offered their Ready-Track in increments of 2" from 14" to 48" radius (30" to 48" was special order). If you don't know, Ready-Track: "This is the famed TRU-SCALE self-gauging roadbed--stained and ballasted--with rail installed--complete with rail joiners...ready for assembly." I once had a circle of 20" self-gauging. I COULD NOT get spikes into the wood. I probably should have pre-drilled the holes--but I was a bit of a "tool novice" at the time.

Ed

[climaxpwr]

Thanks for the info Ed. I remember when I bought my first brass engine in my late teens with money I saved all summer from mowing, except mine cost just under $400 in the early 90's for a 3 truck shay.     Mike

[twhite]

Mike: 

I have an old PFM GN S-1 that is a remarkable runner and puller (non-stainless, at least as far as I can tell) and it takes 24" radius with ease.  There's lots of play on the lead and trailing trucks, and enough play on the sprung drivers (without being 'sloppy') to get it around a tight curve with ease. 

I've had mine for a number of years.  I think I paid about $125 for it used. 

Mine still has the original open-frame motor, and it's quiet and very responsive.  Darn good little lokie!  If you get one, you'll probably be a very happy camper.  As I remember, GN used them as dual-service locos, so they're very versatile.

Tom