I was looking at who's doing this monster and it looks like there are two affordable version of this engine on the market right now. Rivarossi makes one and Athearn has one, now with Tsunami decoder. Both are DCC w/sound and what's even more curious - both are shipped weathered from the factory.
Both look good from the pictures, with Rivarossi unit maybe looking a bit too much like it was abandoned more than a weathered loco. Normally I would take Tsunami over anything else, but I've read reports that for some reason sound is not as good on Athearn Big Boy that one would normally expect from Tsunami decoder.
I also like Trix engine a lot, but Trix Big Boy commands a huge chunk of change and is sold out at most dealers.
The Trix version is very nice, but it was built with small drivers so that it would work on small layouts.
I agree about the Rivarossi Big Boy...it is poorly weathered, although that can be overcome. I have the latest C&O Allegheny, a very nice model. I would comment that the tender is light, but I I don't know about the Big Boy's. The H-8 rides the rails very nicely, and looks like the powerful beast it really was.
I have no experience with Athearn, and cannot recall reading any reports one way or the other about their version of the Big Boy. It doesn't seem to have garnered much attention, or else little enthusiasm. It sure looks good, I must say.
The vaunted PCM version I hear are rare now, but perhaps eBay is the place to search for one, even if used.
-Crandell
Revell! Definitely Revell! Ok, not really.
From what I've heard, the BLI/PCM Big Boy is the best one. The Trix Big Boy is also excellent, but as was mentioned earlier, the drivers are extremely undersized (probably so they could use larger flanges on European versions). Athearn's Big Boy is also very good, but up until recently, they came with a fairly poor quality MRC sound system. Rivarossi's current Big Boy uses their old shell from 1967(?) and has issues with electrical pickup, but has a very smooth running drive.
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selector The Trix version is very nice, but it was built with small drivers so that it would work on small layouts. I agree about the Rivarossi Big Boy...it is poorly weathered, although that can be overcome. I have the latest C&O Allegheny, a very nice model. I would comment that the tender is light, but I I don't know about the Big Boy's. The H-8 rides the rails very nicely, and looks like the powerful beast it really was. I have no experience with Athearn, and cannot recall reading any reports one way or the other about their version of the Big Boy. It doesn't seem to have garnered much attention, or else little enthusiasm. It sure looks good, I must say. The vaunted PCM version I hear are rare now, but perhaps eBay is the place to search for one, even if used. -Crandell
Your comments on the Big Boys are good. I will add some more information since I own all of the available Big Boy models talked about. Tony's trains did a report in general on two of the latest two Big Boys at that time and it is listed below. They are the Trix and PCM, which are both out of production for several years. There is another report on the Athearn at that time.
I purchased several of the PCM and some of the Trix when they were new. The Trix is nice but as you stated, the 64" drivers were made so the large flanges could be added for the EU edition. I sold one of the Trix because I preferred the PCM by a country mile and a half.
When the first run Athearn Big Boy came out, I got those also but the MRC DCC had to be replaced. They really run extrememly well after the decoder was replaced so the new model should be OK with the Soundtraxx installed. The are plastic but pull very well and are extremely well detailed. The first run had several variations since the Big Boys were modified over the years.
The bargain Big Boys were the BLI Blueline version which I purchased also. They do not have lighted number boards but the model is made from die cast metal and are identical to the PCM models. I installed Zimo's for the DCC decoder since they came with the sound in the Blue line. Rather nice model for the price at that time. The Blue Line was discounted more than the regular line and the models were very inexpensive.
This particular tooling for the BLI / PCM model now is in the hands of MTH since they won a lawsuit agains the Korea builder and got the tooling for the Big Boy along with several other models. They will probably have one of the market in the near future, but their price is fairly high.
The Rivarossi has been in production on and off for close to fifty years and it shows it age. The latest versions have the same detail except the drive is much better and the flanges are acceptable. I purchase my first Rivarossi Big Boy in 1975 and it has the same detail as the new one. They have extremely small drivers due to the flanges that was once used.
CZ
PCM and Trix Review
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2006/082406.htm
Athearn article is on the first run Genesis model with the MRC installed. I used a Zimo for the DCC drive and the Athearn will run as slow as 1 MPH or less.
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2006/091506.htm
I had two Athearn's and had bad luck with them. I got a refund and bought a PCM. Hands down better than the Athearn's I had!
Mine has a Loksound 3.5 decoder and sounds great. Had a friend bring over his Big Boy with a Tsunami, no comparison! With dual speakers in mine sound much fuller.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Model Railroad News magazine reported poor electrical pickups on the new Rivarossi Big Boy and recommended against purchasing it.
Without question the best Big Boy on the market excluding brass is the Trix locomotive shown below
like you said if you can find one but in my o/p it's worth the wait and the hunt is part of the fun isn't it. I stumbled upon mine by accident as my wife and I were at a yard sale and no it wasn't sitting there with a $50 price tag on it. I happen to notice the guy had a few model railroad kits on one table and when picked them all up and said how much for all of them he walked over and said train nut huh, we started talking. Well you know how it is the wife is out there buying junk and I'm in the guys basement checking out what left of his dismantled layout. We got to talking and he was retired an because of medical reasons was selling his home and moving in to one of the senior communities. Well he shows me "The Good Stuff" and lets just say I walked out of his basement with a lot more then those kits and a much lighter check book. The upside was I finally had me a Trix Big Boy and it cost me about 1/3 of the retail price. I have the Trix, a couple of Rivarossi's and a Bras Big Boy and lets just say the Trix walks away form the Rivarossi in every respect and holds it's own with the brass model but for a heck of a lot less money
As far as "availability", the Athearn is not yet available, but will be within the next couple weeks.
According to Horizon's website, the next run is due in early May. All of them are factory weathered.
I have one coming, #4007 without sound.
I'll let you know what I think of it when it arrives, but it should be better than earlier versions.
I also have other articulateds from MTH and BLI to compare it against, but no other Big Boys.
John
John, forgive me for putting you on the spot, or pinning you down, but what do you expect to change in the Genesis model? What information do you have to suggest that it will be improved in any sense over previous runs?
I am also curious about the assertion a few posts earlier by Allegheny 2-6-6-6 that the Trix is hands-down the best of all current Big Boys. On what basis is this assertion made? What objective criterea were used, by whom, and what were the results?
Just curious.
selectorJohn, forgive me for putting you on the spot, or pinning you down, but what do you expect to change in the Genesis model? What information do you have to suggest that it will be improved in any sense over previous runs?
The newest runs will have a Tsunami sound system instead of the one made by MRC.
Of the Big Boys he's tried, it's the best one. Except for some of the scaling problems (small drivers, separated rear engine), I've never heard a single bad review on the Trix Big Boys. Tony's Trains says that they're as detailed as the PCM models, and I believe they're also powered by a super smooth running mechanism with a coreless (they call it "bell shaped armature") motor.
Thanks, Darth. I'll still wait to hear from those two gentlemen in case they anything to add for themselves.
In a call to my friend and sales manager of a fine train store, I just found out that my Genesis Big Boy is in as of today.
My in-laws are meeting us and the cub scout troop at Knoebels Grove Amusement Park tomorrow. They should have my Big Boy with them!
I fully expect it to be better than previous Athearn Genesis steamers because many people are aware there were some complaints about the previous steamers (mainly regarding MRC decoders), and Athearn has been very good about making incremental improvements to models (and also the packaging) over time. For example, each successive run of SD40-2 has been getting better in recent years--I had owned several different units.
Having recently owned the "compromise" not quite correct for either GS-4 or GS-6 class MTH 4-8-4 and the compromise "hidden articulated" mechanism 4-12-2 (though it is a fine engine) I for one would not want to buy a Big Boy with drivers that are 4" too small. So I would not buy the Trix version at any price. Why would I when I can buy a Paragon2 Y-6B instead for less money and it's simply fantastic (I have one now)? Even though I really prefer western roads, I now buy the best articulateds available, period. In fact, I only use articulateds now (save one K-4 4-6-2 for when grabby guests visit). All my diesels are gone.
I only got the plain DC version to save money, so will not be able to comment on sound, and my favorite store does not have any other Big Boys that are not already pre-sold. I have heard that others who have the Tsunami sound Big Boys are very happy with them.
I will post comments over the weekend assuming I do get it and have a chance to run it tomorrow night.
I was in an LHS in Newport Delaware and someone had one of the new rivarossi big boys. Looks like a good model but the weathering looked like a plastic paint job. Detailing is good though. I didn't get to see it run. The customer that had it said he paid 400 bucks for it.
Springfield PA
The Athearn Genesis version, plain DC no sound, is way less than $400. My cash outlay is $262 plus state sales tax.
I just checked M.B. Klein, and they have the Rivarossi Big Boy at $259.00 for DC, and $339.00 for DCC/Sound.
I believe original price for Riverossi was $440, so $400 seems like a likely price if bought when it was released. I noticed that in Model Railroading manufactures used air plane style of pricing - it's purely based on value to customer. They release item with some limited road numbers and demand high price. Once that sells off and demand levels to regular level they lower the price. Than when item sits on the shelf with limited selection they drop the price to the floor and get bargain hunter's, who don't care for specific model, clean up the bin. There very little in a sense of permanent selection in this hobby. It's a shame because for new people, like me, it mean's you have to catch the wave.
But I guess that this business model shaped by particulars of this hobby. I haven't this type of pricing and distribution anywhere else. Closest thing is the way Disney released their animations and then put in a "vault" for couple of years.
The absolutely, positively, best HO scale model of a Big Boy was an early Tenshodo rebuilt (the term Kitbashed hadn't been invented then) by a gentleman named Darwin, as reported in Model Railroader about half a century ago.
He replaced all the original blobs of metal with accurate lost-wax castings of compressors, pumps, injectors, etc... But that was the least of it. He rebuilt the original frames, completely reworked the drive system into one that would be top-line today (except for the huge Pittman open-frame motor) and even fitted the pilot and trailing trucks with ramp-and-roller centering!
His 'reward?' Some 'brass collector' crawled out from under a rock and castigated his modifications! Seems that this 'purist' (who probably couldn't have come anywhere near the craftsmanship required) was incensed because the Big Boy was no longer in its native state (aka junk.)
Oh, well. Such is life. (I've had a similar experience myself, albiet in front of a smaller audience and about a smaller locomotive.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with brass steam, some units kitbashed)
I am now pretty darn happy with my PCM Big Boy. When I first got it, it did have some issues that need to be worked out. Main one was the draw bar, on the end there is a section of plastic that was C shaped that is a push fit that clip's on a pole in side of the tender. It fit way to tight and would not slide up and down on the pole. When the engine hit a area that had high spot the draw bar would stick higher up and caused the tender to derail.
I fixed the problem by sanding the inside of the C with 600 grit paper and added some oil to the bar in the tender. Now she tracks pretty darn well. Other than that, no complaints.
Far as pulling power? My goodness it will pull a brick!
In this picture I had doubled headed the PCM Big Boy to my PCM Y6-b. I had not MU them, they where pretty close in speed match and I was doing it more to take the picture for WFP.
I some how fired up the Big Boy and it started to drag the Y6-b (it is die cast metal) and 45 coal cars? 100 car drag should not be a issue!
Hi, Hands down, the winner is the Trix Big Boy. I own two Trix engines, one Athearn, one Rivarossi and one Broadway Limited/ PCM.Other than the Trix engines, the Athearn, Rivarossi and Broadway Limited, all went back several times to the manufacturer for various electrical and mechanical problems. I must admit that my son and I run the Big Boys a lot.
The Trix engines are expensive, but I bought them, when they were readily available. I just picked up another one without sound ( $ 275.00) and will install an ESU or QSI decoder. The only modification i have made is to get rid of the European close coupler mechanism and installed a Kadee coupler on the tender.
The Rivarossi definitly shows it's age-some parts look out of scale-at least to me.The weathering definitely needs some touch up. LOL
The Athearn had numerous sound and electrical problems and some mechanical problems, although not as bad as the Broadway Limited model.
Hope this helps in making your decision
I got the new Athearn Big Boy (DC only version) today and ran it tonight. It was exceptionally well packed in the now nearly standard padded Athearn clamshells, with zero defects due to shipping even though one box corner shows it had an impact.
It starts smoothly, with lighting starting slightly before the engine moves. For me, it started moving at 0.3 amps and about 4.0 volts--and runs as quietly as a church mouse (thoroughly lubricated at the factory, they do not need any additional lubrication until having been run for quite some time according to the owner's manual).
It looks terrific. There's a few details on my MTH Challenger that maybe were more effectively rendered--like for example the adjustable cab roof vent that opens and stays in whatever position you like--whereas the Athearn Big Boy's cab roof vent just flips all the way open (not correct to the best of my knowledge). However, a few piping details cast onto the MTH Challenger's heavy diecast boiler are actually separately applied pipes on the plastic boiler Athearn Big Boy! The piping and handrails on the Big Boy have a slightly more finescale appearance than on the MTH Challenger--but I've got to say both models just look terrific.
Those folks who prefer amber yellow lights on steam power will like the Athearn Big Boy.
Even the plain DC version now has illuminated numberboards displaying the roadnumber with the X (for extra, often typical on UP--but not always) in front of it! Way to go Athearn! Note: In real life, the X and correct road number was not used on UP when the engine was a front helper. In that instance, it would display the X and roadnumber of the road engine running behind it. If the train was a scheduled hotshot, or a passenger train, the number of the train would be placed in the boxes in lieu of the X and road number.
The weathered finish is first rate, evenly applied (including the entire wheels and valve gear), and will not rub off as it seems they did a great job of clearcoating over it. I must admit the graphite smokebox of mine has too much black coal dust on it for my taste--UP tried to wash them frequently to keep them pretty clean, and mine shows very little graphite at all, but is mostly black. However, the weathered finish looks way better than any images I've seen of the Rivarossi version, and would not necessarily be unreasonable for an engine that was turned in a hurry. During peak traffic periods, UP terminal staff would skip some maintenance and turn engines back out on the road in less than an hour--sometimes as little as half an hour during World War II. Obviously, the boiler wash might have been skipped in those instances. There are tastefully done subtle off-white streak effects from pop valves and other items on top the boiler. No rust per se that I can tell--just coal dust and road grime.
I now own the Athearn Big Boy (no sound, DC), the MTH Challenger with sound/smoke, and the BLI Paragon2 dual mode Y-6B 2-8-8-2 with sound/smoke. I actually love all of them, will buy more of some, but at this point am hard-pressed to decide just which one! Each of the monster articulateds has their own particular stand-out features.
I guess if I had money, I'd buy the Athearn Big Boy with the Tsunami sound, but I can't buy any more right now.
John, I was looking at the new Athearn Big Boys yesterday at my LHS. The first two Athearn's Big Boys I had the smoke box silver was to silver. That is one of the things I like about my PCM Big Boy. This run, they are to over done as you stated. I was thinking some light gray caulk might tone it down some.
I am getting the itch again for a new articulated. May be I will cross my fingers and give Athearn another try. But, it will get a test run first this time.
Normal 0
I took a look at the Rivarossi weathered Big Boy, and it reminded me of the camouflage paint jobs the Germans put on their locomotives during WWII. Just my
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I agree that Hornby's idea of weathering on the RR Big Boy is over-done and doesn't look that great. If you look at pictures, the Big Boys got dirty, but they didn't let them get that dirty too often.
I have both the DC and the DCC Trix Big Boys, and they are great looking and running locomotives, The Trix BB's and Proto2K 2-8-8-2 and the Lionel HO Challengers(my all time Favorite HO locomotives) are all very smooth slow speed runners, a real pleasure to run in the roundhouse area at the club.
The trix BB's weakness in my experience is that D**N NEMA coupler arrangement, yes Kadee makes a coupler for it, but the plastic drawbar on the draftgear is not stiff enough, and will flex, causing the coupler head to droop and the couplers would seperate. The locomotive is capable of pulling many more cars than the drawbar would hold, in MY experience. If like on most home layouts you are limited to trains of around 15 cars, this probably wont be an issue. I found out about this the hard way, 28 LOADED coal hoppers(weighted to NMRA specs empty) plus a caboose going up about a 1.25% grade, all of a sudden the locomtive is climbing the grade, and the cars are decsending the grade, and unfortunately an "Emergency Application" doesn't happen in model railroading. The answer would be to remove the factory drawbar and mount a Kadee draftbox on the tender. Because of the coupler unreliability, these wonderful locomotives were relegated to the Engine Facility during the club's open houses. I have since mostly changed to 3 rail O Gauge and now they don't get used, so I never made the time for the coupler box change. I also hated the Loksound system, the club was, and still is running DC, while the DCC version will run in DC, it operates backwards of everythingelse direction wise, in DC.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
I would have to say that the best BB is the PCM brass BB. They are exceptionally nice engines and the detailing is extraordinary. The inside of the cab is very nice and I just love what you see when you open up the many hatches that are available to be opened. I can not imagine anything coming close to it in that regard. I've never tried a pulling contest with the brass BB's but the normal PCM BB is a brute. They can out pull most things. On a 2% grade I have used them to start 72 car trains and they will crawl those up that kind of grade without flinching. The Athearn one is not my favorite, it's OK but and a fine purchase but it doesn't come close, in my opinion of course to the PCM version.
I have no clue about the Rivarossi. The Trix version is nice but I can not buy an engine with such small drivers. I'm sorry, for me that is a major reason not to buy that engine.
Magnus
they are right, my Rivarossi big boys electrical pickup are two sets of spring loaded pins. they rub on four wheels (two on each side) thats it!!! the springs in mine don't spring any more. It only has about an hour run time on it. the worst part is I called/emailed many times hornby england and US. NOBODY has them. what do I do now? anbody have a fix? wilrad
Maybe you can make your own wheels wipers, and make it so more wheels have electrical pickup at the same time. It's amazing what can be done with Kadee coupler centering springs! I used them to upgrade my MDC Shay from a very poorly setup 6-wheel pickup to a reliable 8-wheel pickup, my Bowser A-5 0-4-0 from 2 engine wheels and 4 tender wheels to all wheels, and quite a few others. They give enough tension for reliable contact, but they're flexible enough to not restrict wheel movement much.
I own 4 Rivarossi Big Boys, 1 PCM Big Boy, 1 Marklin Trix Big Boy, 1 Athearn Genesis Big Boy,
plus 1 Bowser Big Boy.
In brass I have 1 Olympia Gem Big Boy, 1 Sunset Brass(late series of Big Boy)
and 1 Tenshodo Big Boy.
If you are looking for the finest detail on a non-brass Big Boy then I recommend the
PCM (BLI?). The only detail they missed was the dual electric generator just forward of
the turret, and slightly to the left(it was not installed, and here was no provision for
the installation). None of my other locomotives held a candle to it regarding overall
detail and it pulled over 100 cars with no problem without traction tires. (note
that I added and adjusted weights)
My next choice would be the Genesis series in spite of their plastic construction.
The early Rivarossi units had pizza cutter flanges and undersized wheels and their
latest weathering effort is terrible. The newer Rivarossi do however run better than
the original units.
The best pulling effort is by the re-motored Bowser but even with the super detail kit
the Bowser lacks the finite features of any of the other models. The casting is just
too crude.
As far as a scale representation of the Big Boy, both the Trix(3/8' too short) and the
Tenshodo(1/2+"too long) fail miserably. In both cases the problem seems to have
been caused by designing the units around driver issues.
The PCM, 1 Rivarossi , Trix, and the Athearn Genesis are DCC/Sound.
Again, two thumbs for the PCM Big Boy. It has rivet detail, latches and plumbing
features sadly missing on all the other Big Boy models including the 4015 Trix
(RP25 flanged).
"I am also curious about the assertion a few posts earlier by Allegheny 2-6-6-6 that the Trix is hands-down the best of all current Big Boys. On what basis is this assertion made? What objective criterea were used, by whom, and what were the results?"
This statement of fact is made on experience and owning or having owned at least one big boy made by everyone who ever manufactured one. I have owned two Athearns and they were a complete disappointment, even more so then the Rivarossi's as you know what to expect when your buying the lowest end model. I have tow versions sitting on sidings right now both newer Hornby models one completely stock the second with an upgraded MWSL can motor, re-geared, all brass details added and new drivers.It's a fine running locomotive and even before applying bullfrog snot it was a great puller.
The Trix is by far the best big boy hands down with the exception of my Tenshado Brass Big Boy the Tenshado has a slightly better claim when it comes to pulling power but the Trix pulled 100 PFE Reefers by it self right out of the box and has always stepped up tot he challenge doing the same with 100 proto 100ton coal hoppers. Observing the over all craftsmanship of the Trix compared to all the others is a kin to comparing a Rolls Royce to a Yugo. The fit and finish is fantastic and the smoothness of the running gear is like that of a Swiss watch. Would I ever pay the exorbitant prices asked for a Trix model, unequivocally NO not even close but getting mine at a super deal it was well worth it.
I know some my want to argue this point but I really don't care, I liken the comparison to one of my favorite locomotives of all time the K4 Pacific. The Spectrum version is the only low end model available and a not to shabby example either that is until you see MTH's version. It's just better and it's obvious in every detail.
It's just one of those things that just is no matter how you slice it.There is no category with the exception .of price that the Trix Big Boy isn't head and shoulders far and above all other big boys.
trainsBuddy I also like Trix engine a lot, but Trix Big Boy commands a huge chunk of change and is sold out at most dealers.
I've read the other posts and at the risk of offending some readers, I can't agree on the trix as being the BEST model.
The Trix engine has been around for a long time and for what you get, it is way over-priced, compared to the competition.
The Athearn Big Boy is probably the best in terms of cost per value, but the Tsunami sound falls a little short for Tsunami and is not as good as I had hoped for. I have an Athearn Big Boy with the MRC sound- I gutted that and installed a Tsunami but it never has been quite what I wanted.
The MTH model, just recently released, is a upgraded re-tool of the old PCM Big Boy but with a quantum leap imporvement in the sound and motor department. It also has some improvements in detail.
It is pricey, but at 479.00 I've decided it was the best choice for the money - I sold my Blue Line to pay for the MTH version - decidedly a very good decision. for about $25 difference , I upgraded to a better detailed, far better running, and far superior sound equipped locomotive.
I've been so pleased with the engine that I went ahead and bought a second one so I could park the 1st under the display case on my fireplace mantel where the other once was displayed.
I don't expect anyone to buy multiple engines, but before you buy any, I'd give this a once-over.
if you really want the best value and model, the MTH Big Boy is a winner in my book.
HeritageFleet1