Scratchbuilt or kitbash

[tatans]

A recent forum on the above subject went on and on and people came up with their interpretation of the two, nothing was ever established and the forum went into great depth as to which was which, to the point of almost psychological interpretation of the terms.

My question is: If I select a forum topic on kitbash or scratchbuilt, what can I expect to see? an assembly of a kit in a box or a stack of home made parts and how to make them, still a big mystery to me.  It seems many people do not differentiate the two, this can be a little confusing to my progressing senile mind.

[mokenarr]

 to me scratch building is some doors and windows from the hobby store , and some flat pieces of wood and some scale pieces of lumber.. if it comes in a box as a kit , and you modify it , its kitbashing.  these are scratch built

[chutton01]

Yeah, for me, if you start with styrene strips and styrene sheet (could be v-grooved for siding), and assemble a garage or shed or whatever from that, that's scratchbuilding.

Then of course you get into situations where, say you take a kit of a 2 story house and kitbash it a bit, and then add a store front section scrathbuilt using sheet & strip - what's that kind of hybrid called? (This is fairly common in vehicle modeling, where you take a truck cab from one company (say a resin cab), attach it to a frame + wheels scavanged from a different vehicle model (Athearn frames are common for this), and then add a scratchbuild dump bed or box van etc.

[richg1998]

Kits cam be bashed with other kits, pieces of other material added, modified, etc.

Scratch built is using bass wood pieces or balsa, sometimes soft pine, styrene, thick paper, card stock. brass, etc.

Go find some old model railroad magazines , 1940's. 1950's, 1960's and find scratch built projects when people had to use snail mail or telephone to communicate. They used what they could find. Very little material was available from model railroad companies. Old timers scribed card stock for siding or planks, cut sheet brass, made brass locomotive frames from all knids of brass stock, etc.

Today, we can find all kinds of ready made material for “scratch building”.

A few months ago I “scratch built” a flat car or so I thought I had. I realized I used Tichy styrene details, Flat bass wood, scribed bass wood, Kadee trucks, Kadee couplers. I really built a kit of my own making. I actually hardly did any REAL scratch building. I followed plans in a 1960 MRR magazine.

The term Scratch building today is a lot different than years ago.

Rich

[IRONROOSTER]

 The NMRA's definitions are on this page http://www.nmra.org/education/achievement/def.html and include one for scratchbuilt.

When I started in the hobby many years ago, kitbashed seemed to mean taking two or more structure kits, same or different ones, and "bashing" them together into an amalgamation of the 2 or more. Since then the definition seems to have broadened to include modifying a kit with extra parts or arranging the parts differently.  Unfortunately, there no clear understanding of how much modification is necessary to qualify.

Many people seem to include commercial parts in their scratch building.  My opinion is that if you use commercial windows, brake wheels, brake cylinders, end sills, doors, etc, but form the major part of the structure, car, locomotive, from shapes, sheets, strips that you cut to length, curve, etc. then you are scratch/parts building.

But really does it matter? I have done pure scratch building and scratch/parts building.  I find them to be the same in terms of enjoyment since you are creating the model.  I also enjoy kit building and RTR.  Whatever appeals to me at the time and is available.

Enjoy

Paul

[dehusman]

A kitbash will generally start with a kit or commercial model as the starting point or a major component of the finished product.  The thrust will be how to use the commercial kit or model to make something else.  With scratchbuilding, the the commercial parts are just that, parts and the major components are fabricated out of generic shapes or sheets.

All of the techniques are pretty much the same.  Many commercial older "craftsman" kits are indistinguishable from a scratchbuild, except that all the material is provided and there are written instructions with the kit.  Other than that both are made from the same strip and scribed wood.

If I take a generic 40 ft steel boxcar and modify it to be a RDG class XMu boxcar, that's a kitbash.  If I build masters and cast my own resin parts and assemble a P&R class XMe boxcar, that's a scratchbuild.  If I build masters and cast a gondola shell and mount it on a modified commercial underframe, that's debatable.  If I take a farmhouse kit, rearrange the walls, move around some doors and windows to make a yard office, that's a kitbash.  If I use sheet styrene and Evergreen "metal" siding , along with a few door and window castings, to build a rolling mill, that's a scratchbuild.  If I build a styrene shell, add trusses and columns from a building kit, plus girders from a N scale bridge kit for the overhead crane beams, that's debatable.

If you spend more that 5 minutes of your time argueing about it, you are wasting your time.

Regardless of whether somebody says its a kitbash or scratchbuild, look at the techniques, look at the results.  Decide what you can use from that.  Regardless of whether its a kitbash or a scratchbuild, it means somebody has more talent, time and ambition than just buying something off a shelf, so if you like it, ask about how they did it. One question asking how they did something is more of a complement than 100 "Looks great!" posts.   You also don't have to copy the entire process. Many times I have been able to glean one small, but very cool technique from a 10 page article, but still that one cool thing made the whole article (or magazine) worthwhile.

[doctorwayne]

IRONROOSTER

 Many people seem to include commercial parts in their scratch building.  My opinion is that if you use commercial windows, brake wheels, brake cylinders, end sills, doors, etc, but form the major part of the structure, car, locomotive, from shapes, sheets, strips that you cut to length, curve, etc. then you are scratch/parts building.

But really does it matter? I have done pure scratch building and scratch/parts building.  I find them to be the same in terms of enjoyment since you are creating the model.  I also enjoy kit building and RTR.  Whatever appeals to me at the time and is available.

Enjoy

Paul

I have to agree with Paul.  I don't do scratchbuilding, as I use commercially available materials, such as styrene sheets, strips, and shapes.  I also use commercial window castings (even in the old days, when I was building my own, I used commercially-available stripwood, so they weren't truly scratchbuilt, in my opinion).  I have lots of structures that I designed and built and even some freight and passenger cars, too, all unique to my layout, but they're not really scratchbuilt - I'd call them parts-built, I suppose, even when some of the parts used truly were scratchbuilt. 

I think that some folks (purists, perhaps) are offended when someone presents a model as "scratchbuilt" when it's plain to see that some (maybe mostly) commercially-available parts were used, but it's more a question of semantics than anything - they should be looking at the uniqueness of the end result or even just appreciating the workmanship or ingenuity that created it.  

Wayne 

[leighant]

" If I select a forum topic on kitbash or scratchbuilt, what can I expect to see?"

You can expect to see a lot of pontificating, discussing, cussing, etc!!!

Here is kitbash- an N scale Republic Locomotive Works "office" kit with an interior added out of bits of this and that, kitbuilt Gold Medal etched brass chairs, and a lean-to poorch scratchbuilt, etc.  with HO scale pigeons kitbashed into N scale chickens under the porch. 

 

And this is a kitbash...a 1/700 scale Japanese Naval Seaport harbor crane bashed into an N scale gravel loader.

 

 

 

 

 

This 1/12 dollhouse scale model has some commercial doors and windows, and a bit of commercial siding, but the simulated asbestos siding shingles were cut from discarded vinyl siding from my wife's house.  There is some "bashing" involved.  The odd window in the attic was bashed from commercial window parts to more closely approximate the odd window on the real house.

 

I claim this as scratchbuilt, but I can't claim it as "one of a kind" because the model is one and the full size house is one too, so the model is just a copy.

 

[blownout cylinder]

doctorwayne

I have to agree with Paul.  I don't do scratchbuilding, as I use commercially available materials, such as styrene sheets, strips, and shapes.  I also use commercial window castings (even in the old days, when I was building my own, I used commercially-available stripwood, so they weren't truly scratchbuilt, in my opinion).  I have lots of structures that I designed and built and even some freight and passenger cars, too, all unique to my layout, but they're not really scratchbuilt - I'd call them parts-built, I suppose, even when some of the parts used truly were scratchbuilt. 

Here  is where I part ways with this point. Stripwood built windows is NOT scratchbuilt? What do you propose here? A sharply defined line that says you have to manufacture your own styrene? You have to make your own stripwood? Isn't that sort of taking the purist line a little too far? I know a few "purists" who would look at this and laugh---

Sheesh---talk about literalism

[doctorwayne]

I planted some trees, but while I was waiting for them to grow big enough to cut into HO scale lumber, I discovered styrene for "scratchbuilding".   I'm enjoying the shade, though.

Wayne

[blownout cylinder]

doctorwayne

I planted some trees, but while I was waiting for them to grow big enough to cut into HO scale lumber, I discovered styrene for "scratchbuilding".   I'm enjoying the shade, though.

Wayne

I was thinking you needed a plastics manufacturer----

As for the shade we have a lot around here---

[IRONROOSTER]

doctorwayne

I planted some trees, but while I was waiting for them to grow big enough to cut into HO scale lumber, I discovered styrene for "scratchbuilding".   I'm enjoying the shade, though.

Wayne

 

I hope you made the styrene from crude oil yourself !!!  Sheesh the people who think styrene is a raw material....

 

 

 

Enjoy

Paul

[doctorwayne]

IRONROOSTER

I hope you made the styrene from crude oil yourself !!!  Sheesh the people who think styrene is a raw material....

Enjoy

Paul

 

My point exactly:  I don't particularly care if what I do is "pure" scratchbuilding, parts building, kitbashing, or even straight kit building - if it suits my needs, it's good enough for me.    Most of us aren't entering a competition where this would be a factor, so I'm not especially offended when somebody touts their kitbash as a scratchbuild, or whatever.  If I'm not mistaken, I've probably referred to some of my own stuff as scratchbuilt when it was definitely outside of the NMRA parameters governing such things.

Wayne

 

[citylimits]

This subject always seems to end up being locked because there really is no definitive answer. Lots of fun and some silly suggestions along the way if the subject is kept light. There is sometimes a bit of crabby arrogance creeping in, well there was a while back.A lot of opinions, but I believe that the definition of scratch building lies in the interpretation of how a reasonable mind would define it. 

If I come up with a plan to design some building - or a locomotive - especially if that design is original from my imagination or a combination of design cues or even extracted from a book of plans and I build something using items bought from a hobby store, an art supply store or where ever and I cut the items to my plan or drawings and assemble then I believe that I have scratch built this model.

I see it as a pointless exercise to  argue with others that my definition of scratchbuilding is faulty because the timber comes from commercial forest and I don't own the oil wells from which plastic is made. Spare me please.

If I were to buy a kit offering these same raw materials for me to assemble then I will have built a kit.

 If I changed the raw materials supplied in the kit or shape them differently to build some modifications to the plans then I would have kitbashed the model.

But really, it's the end result that counts - the quality of the model is what's important. Splitting hairs to define the building process is, well, pointless.

 

Bruce

 

 

[m horton]

I look at it like this, using commercial parts, doors,windows, siding, chimneys, etc, and cutting them to make a building, whether it's your idea or from plans is scratch building.

Using a kit or several and modifying from the original intent is kitbashing.
Usung a kit and adding scratch built extras, scratchbashing.

mike h.

[wedudler]

 I like scratch building like this station

 

or kit building like this combine I'm still busy with.

 

Wolfgang