Jeff Kraker explains his "less is more" theory

[NorthBrit]

gmpullman

Some people are annoyed by bringine up older threads, others find it OK. A new member might not immediately see the particular date of the original thread or simply choose to ignore it.

Personally, I don't mind seeing an old thread resurrected. Likewise I don't mind seeing older books on library shelves. I'm glad my library doesn't throw out all the books that might be a year or two beyond its publishing date. 

Cheers, Ed

I agree wih you, Ed.

I have 'pinched'  many an idea  from old books and threads.

David

[gmpullman]

kasskaboose

How does this happen?

Someone does an online search (Google or one of the others) and invariably there are forum topics that are returned in the results. Some engines allow you to click on 'Show more results from site: cs.trains.com' and dozens of forum replies may come up and not only for Model Railroader but for any of the other Kalmbach magazine forums as well.

Some people are annoyed by bringine up older threads, others find it OK. A new member might not immediately see the particular date of the original thread or simply choose to ignore it.

Personally, I don't mind seeing an old thread resurrected. Likewise I don't mind seeing older books on library shelves. I'm glad my library doesn't throw out all the books that might be a year or two beyond its publishing date.

shortlinerail

Great Layout,

Tom!

Cheers, Ed

[kasskaboose]

Interesting concept.  Why the old thread?  How does this happen?

[gmpullman]

tstage

THIS is the type of necro threads I don't mind seeing again.

       +1

I somehow missed this first time around. Great photos and modeling ideas here.

Regards, Ed

[tstage]

THIS is the type of necro threads I don't mind seeing again.  Beautiful modeling!

[riogrande5761]

Thirteen year necro!

[shortlinerail]

Great Layout, In what issue of MR was your HO Scale trackplan published , I have a 5X16 foot space and want to see what you did.

Tom Hirsch

[rdgk1se3019]

coaltrain

here is a shot that shows the engine service area when I first built it.  When I first built it I though it looked a little plain.  Also, the turntable was the 1st gen Walthers turntable and it did not work well at all.  when Walthers came out with their ready built turntable I purchased one with the idea of just replaceing the turntable, that night I had most the engine terminal tore out with a plan to redo the track arrangement, I wanted the look of a busy and crowded engine terminal that was trying to fit in everything they needed in a space that was too small, plus show an expansion for a "new" diesel service track that looked pretty freshly installed.

before

after the remodel.

 some of the new structures included sand, house, oil tanks, fuel tanks, lots of power poles, ice house, oil house, cinder hoist, and blow down drains.

Blow down drains (CNW design)

Ice and oil house (Interstate RR design)

storage shed (Accurail box car)

Sand house (Walthers with scratchbuilt sand bin)

misc photos

Wow.....what a difference the before and after pics are.....the after the remodel pics look as if there is more life to them.

[wm3798]

 Jeff,

Great article, and an outstanding layout.  But geez Louise!  You've given us enough material here for four more articles!  Don't spill your candy in the lobby!

Thanks for sharing this information.

Lee

[IVRW]

Jeff, I just want to say your layout has been inspirational. I am sorry to hear it has been torn down, but I understand why. You did a spectacular job, and I love your results. If this layout is this good, I can not wait to see the next one. Please, please, please! keep us posted on your progress.

[PASMITH]

coaltrain

here is the build thread for #25, the Mantua boilered MDC old time 2-8-0.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14664

Jeff

Based on the crane in the background, this 2-8-0 may not have a specific prototype. It might however make a nice SP C-8 or 9. Peter Smith Memphis

[coaltrain]

once I cashed the check the article was all theirs and how ever they decided to edit it is out of my control.   I can see why, in these economic times, they decided to take the spin they did.  I did go back and read my article again and it does explain the situation I was in but I think it was in about one or two sentences and the point my get overlooked easy.

[leighant]

Hooooo, boy!  These were the pitchchures I was wanting to see.  I read your article 3 times, pondered over the track plan 6 times, and ran two imaginary operating sessions in my head. 

So thanks for the extra pitchers. 

 

[Paul3]

Dear Mr. Kraker,
I was the one that made the comments about newbies with sectional track, how hard can it be to lay track down, and all that (again, I'll state that I hadn't read the article at that point).  I could not understand how someone who attempted to run trains could not make them go for more than a few feet even after 5 years of working on it, all while blaming the size of the layout.  So I questioned it, and you have answered (which I wholeheartedly respect).

Unfortunately for your article, MR's editors chose to use "Less space, better layout" and "Less space, better railroad" as titles without even so much as a question mark.  If the article title said, "Less space, better railroad?", then I bet that other thread wouldn't have started out like it did.  This has implied that your opinion is that a smaller layout is a better layout just because it's smaller, which you have since cleared up.

Keep up the excellent work on your new On30 layout!  I look forward to seeing it in MR in the upcoming years.

Paul A. Cutler III

[graftonterminalrr]

Yep, that's the one. A fantastic bit of modeling using "found" parts, or components that people wouldn't immediately consider in this day and age.

I have two similar locomotives; a GSB Rail SD40-2 getting detailed to the nines, and a 1957-built Revell SW7 (actually an NW2) that I've detailed as a CN NW2. Still runs using the original motor and rubber-belt drive, too.

[coaltrain]

here is the build thread for #25, the Mantua boilered MDC old time 2-8-0.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14664

Jeff

[coaltrain]

thanks Tom

The 2-8-2 is a Broadway Limited heavy 2-8-2 with Cal Scale detail parts added, here is a link I did on Railroad line for the build.  I removed the QSI sound system and installed a Tsunami decoder in its place.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18956

Jeff

[twhite]

Jeff:

I really enjoyed the layout coverage in MR, and certainly like the additional photos.  Your modeling is just superb IMO.  

One question:  That very handsome C&O-style 2-8-2 that figures prominently in some of the photos--is that a kit-bash or a brass import?   I've always thought that those 2-8-2's are among the handsomest ever built. 

Again--really FINE work!

Tom

[coaltrain]

Yes, that was me.  I still have some Youtube videos of the layout.  I would like to try some HD movies of the layout but I have not found anyone near me that has an HD video camera.

[CSX_road_slug]

coaltrain

...  Here is #25 in action on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwm0Xc9uIWs

...

Your layout looks familiar: Did you once post a YouTube video of a SoundTraxx-equipped F7+Geep consist pulling a coal drag up-grade?  That impressed me so much, that it convinced me to invest in that type of sound decoders myself.

I don't subscribe to MR, but now I guess I'll go and buy myself a copy of this issue to see the article!

[odave]

coaltrain

  After five years I only had the staging yard done, the helix built, and the visible tracks into the main yard which was located just as you exited the staging yard.　

This is preciesly the reason I eliminated my 12 track staging lower deck.  I sat down and realized that given my small budget and severely restricted available time,  it was going to be years before I would be able to get to the fun stuff.  Some folks might be aghast that I eliminated any staging at all, but the simple fact is that all of that staging might end up serving nothing if I abandoned the hobby due to a deficit of fun.  So I simplified my layout's construction and changed its focus a bit (more switching with minimal staging on hidden end-curves), and found myself much happier for doing it.

Thanks for the article, followup post, and the proof that someone with severe time & money restrictions can still do great stuff

[coaltrain]

I don't think anyone would consider my layout small, but it is "smaller" than my 20'x40' layout.  Interesting note, it would be hard to fit a 4' x 8' layout in the same space my layout is in if you wanted to have it away from the walls on all sides, it could be done but the side aisles will be tight.  One other thing that is not shown in the MR ariticle is that my layout room is not in a full basement room, it is in a room on the lower floor of my split level house, so the walls under the layout are not 9'-3" wide they are only 8'-6" which is why my layout required a step up at Roda.  to get my layout the widest possible I had to build it above the cinder block wall ledge, as the grades climbed it put Roda at a very uncomfortable height to switch cars at, so I build the platform to raise the floor up.

 

Jeff

[ccaranna]

If the consensus determines that this is considered to be a "small" layout, then I am officially quitting the hobby as of this date.

Seriously.

[coaltrain]

Like everything, it is all about the money, of which I had none, and it is very hard to build much with no money.  Model railroading can be an expensive hobby, my first layout was way out of my budget, which is why it never got very far.

 

Jeff

[coaltrain]

Thanks, that was (and still is) my favorite locomotive and even after I sell everything off that is one that will stay with me.  Here is #25 in action on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwm0Xc9uIWs

Jeff

[graftonterminalrr]

Jeff,

As one whose interests in model railroading primarily lie in modeling locomotives, let me tell you what a terrific job you did on that 2-8-0 with the Mantua 0-4-0 boiler. It's inspired me to do a similar detailing job on a Mantua 2-6-2. (If you ever want to sell it let me know but seriously, great job.) 

[richhotrain]

Jeff,

Like all of the others have already said, it was a thrill to hear from you first hand, to read so much from you on your thought process, and a great explanation of the timetable that you adhered to in building your current layout.

Your layout is magnificient and, of course, you are one of those guys that the rest of us love to hate because of the skill and beauty put into your railroad.  I love my layout, a 22'x42' sceniced double mainline, but I wince at the unlikely possibility of having my layout featured in MRR.  I simply have a long way to go to achieve the quality level that you have accomplished.

I do plead guilty to being one of those who questioned how you could spend years working on your layout only to have a train run just a few feet.  From the moment I saw the cover page of the current issue and saw that statement, I winced.  I stand by that reaction but that is, in no way, a criticism of your layout or your methodology of getting to the point that you are at today.  It's just that the thought of spending years working on the layout without the pleasure of at least running an engine or train more than a few feet boggled my mind.  On the other hand, a great artist does not have the pleasure of sitting back and viewing his painting until after he has finished one.  Undoubtedly, the pleasure is in the work in progress.

I hope, now that you have joined the forum, that you will stick around and share with us a lot more.  As they say, welcome aboard!

Rich

 

 

[coaltrain]

Peter;

while doing research for building the coke ovens at Roda I was loaded a book on the Mann's Creek Railroad, long story short, the Mann's Creek railroad was a 3' guage rr built to haul coal eight miles from a coal mine down Mann's Creek gorge to the C&O at Sewell, the coal was first converted to coke and in the later years they shipped both coke and sized coal.  I used the many photos from the book to help build my coke ovens, but the more I studied the book and read the stories in it the more interested I became in leaving the "mainline" modeling and became interested in modeling a true shortline backwoods mining railroad that served a specific industry.

 back in the early 80s' I built some HOn3 stuff but I was never really happy with it, so when I was considering doing narrow gauge again I decided I would do a bigger scale so I test built one of the Mann's creek hopper cars in O scale (narrow gauge) just to see if I would like it.  I really enjoyed the level of detail that is easy to reach in O scale and I enjoy that it is possible to use more scale sized materials and they are not as fragile and fussy as they are in HO.  I also like the "up close" and personal feel you get with O scale.

I purchased some of the Bachmann On30 stuff and I bought a brass On3 shay to see what I was getting involved with before I just up and tore out my layout.  What I found was the products in On30 really run well, they are also heavy and pull really well for their size.  When I was messing with HOn3 it seamed like the locomotive had a hard time just pulling their tenders around, much less a string of cars up steep twisting grades.  The Brass On3 shay was a bit of an indulgence, but I wanted to see what they were like, if it could be made to run like the On30 stuff and how it would handel tighter curves.  At the moment my thoughts are to keep the shay On3 and regauge the Bachmann stuff to On3.

My new O narrow gauge layout will be based off the Mann's Creek railroad but will again be fictional to allow me to pull some elements from some other narrow gauge railroads.  The Mann's Creek railroad operated with Shays and for a short time with some Climax locomotives, I will do the same put I also want to have a couple rod locomotives.  The Mann's Creek mostly hauled just coal hoppers and did not run any passenger cars and very little other freight (for a short time they hauled lumber), I want to have a little bit of general freight and I want to haul a combine once a day.  The location of my new railroad with but just upstream of the Mann's Creek railroad at a location called Thayer on the C&O, which is where the Slater Creek joins the New River, so my railroad will be called the Slater Creek Railway.

here are the coke ovens I modeled in HO scale

 here is a Climax I built in O scale, it is a modified Bachmann On30 that may get regauged to On3

and a On30 2-6-0

and some O narrow gauge freight cars

 

Jeff

[cudaken]

  Thanks for the picture as well!

      Cuda Ken