jwhittenBTW-- Have I ever seen pictures of your layout?? I can't recall-- do you have a web site or a photo album someplace???
John, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years.
No I do not have a web site, I'm not overly computer oriented, so I don't know if that will ever happen. Photobucket was big step for me.
jwhitten Wow! You have given this a lot of thought, I'm impressed! A lot of interesting rationale, and I was especially intrigued to see that you had even considered different "eras" as well. I suspect that's a subtlety that's lost on a lot of modelers-- not that they couldn't implement it, but rather just haven't thought to do it. You talk about the "middle era" but don't give any dates-- how far back have you gone with this?
Wow! You have given this a lot of thought, I'm impressed!
A lot of interesting rationale, and I was especially intrigued to see that you had even considered different "eras" as well. I suspect that's a subtlety that's lost on a lot of modelers-- not that they couldn't implement it, but rather just haven't thought to do it. You talk about the "middle era" but don't give any dates-- how far back have you gone with this?
Thank you,
Since railroads tended to buy locos in groups, and the influences of a master mechanic often controlled what was done, it only seemed natural. If I showed you the whole steam roster, you would be able to visually group them:
Early - locos built 1900 to 1916 - all have been modernized somewhat but extensive changes not deemed a good investment - example - Spectrum large driver 4-6-0 with Vanderbilt oil tenders.
Middle - 1917 to 1940 - almost all are USRA copies, some have been modernized a lot, some only a little. Example - all with trailing trucks have Delta cast trailing trucks, all have USRA tenders or Vanderbilt tenders. Examples - USRA Heavy 4-8-2's, USRA Heavy 2-8-2's, USRA 2-6-6-2's, USRA 2-8-8-2's, USRA Light 4-6-2's.
Late - 1941 to end of steam production - typical modern designs, Reading T1 Northerns, my protolanced Lima super power Mikes (there is a long prototype story with this one), Modern Articulated locos, 2-6-6-4's and 2-6-6-6's. This locos have similar features, large modern water bottom tenders, pilot deck mounted air pumps, fead water heaters (which only a few of the middle era locos have).
We even have our own complete class/sub class designations.
For me, this part of the hobby is just as much fun as building and running the trains.
This is by far one of your best Friday posts.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALjwhittenBTW-- Have I ever seen pictures of your layout?? I can't recall-- do you have a web site or a photo album someplace??? John, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years. No I do not have a web site, I'm not overly computer oriented, so I don't know if that will ever happen. Photobucket was big step for me.
That's a shame, it would be nice to be able to see some pictures. Hopefully you'll get it figured out soon and then you can post some!!
ATLANTIC CENTRALSince railroads tended to buy locos in groups, and the influences of a master mechanic often controlled what was done, it only seemed natural.
Yes, that makes sense.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL (various era designations & details)
That's extremely interesting the way you built-up and layered your roster and thought through the various common modifications (details).
ATLANTIC CENTRALJohn, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years.
Are you looking for something larger with a bigger layout room?
ATLANTIC CENTRALFor me, this part of the hobby is just as much fun as building and running the trains.
Yes, I like it as well, not sure if I like *more* than running trains, but its way up there and growing on me! I find that while I don't exactly "love" doing all the background work, I quickly get lost in it there's so much interesting stuff to dig up and know about. Its like a great big mystery that you have to solve, in a way-- you keep digging at it and peeling back the layers until you find the answers you're looking for. You never know where the investigation is gonna lead you and who you're gonna meet along the way. Its definitely a lot of fun in the end when it all comes together and you have a new nugget of information to add to the puzzle.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThis is by far one of your best Friday posts. Sheldon
Thank you for saying so-- several people have said they liked it-- so now I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what I can do for an encore next week...
So if you don't mind-- why do you like this week's post? Is it the topic? The presentation? The pictures? The subject build-up and examples? Just happens to be a topic near-n-dear to your heart? The interactive chit-chat? Something else??
John
jwhittenAre you looking for something larger with a bigger layout room?
The current layout room is 800 sq ft above my detached garage. Our current home is a 3800 sq ft, 2-1/2 story, 1901 Queen Anne. My wife has health issues that require one floor living. The new house will be a rancher, likely in the 1700 to 2000 sq ft range and the basements only purpose will be the layout (and utilities obviously). If we don't find something we like, we will build ourselves. So it is likely the new space will be larger.
jwhittenSo if you don't mind-- why do you like this week's post? Is it the topic? The presentation? The pictures? The subject build-up and examples? Just happens to be a topic near-n-dear to your heart? The interactive chit-chat? Something else??
I like the fact that it was about modeling, not about products or manufaturers or the cost of the hobby, or even about how we "feel", it was about the trains and about what we actually do or plan to do with them.
When I started developing the Portage and Northwoods I was working for Del Monte in the Central Sands portions of Wisconsin. The companies sweet corn fields were scattered up and down I-39 but mostly to the west of it.
One day I was stopped by a farmer who thought I was a little young to be out field scouting and was basiclly giving me the buisness, when he mentioned the old Wisconsin Central line that ran between Portage and Plover WI. Later my job had me almost all the way to Plover and was able to scout out the route. A fairly level route though agricultural terrritory with some stone mining, sugar beets, and misc stuff. I put all of this on the back burner as collage and grad school dictated attentions in other places.
Grad School in Pennsylvania introduced me to the wonders of electrification. GG1's, Jackstaff electrics, Little Joes and Swiss National Railroad Crocodiles (ugly, jackstaff, and utterly reliable...the trifecta of electrics.) I started collecting a small amount of Pennsy equipment, mostly passenger, because I figured that if I never actually built a layout representing the east coast, I could at the very least build a complete passenger train, and if it was out of place so be it, at least the train would be complete. So I have nearly completed the Pre-war Congressional. (because you can build it mostly from Bachmann hvyweights.)
Upon returning to Wisconsin and getting back into model railroading seriously, the old Portage to Plover line resurfaced, this time with hvy electrics as the motive power. Unfortunately there was no way, that the short line would have ever seen a hvy electric. So I started researching smaller electrics. Boxcabs, and Steeple Cabs. Well Boxcabs are the realm of brass, but Cannonball car shops makes a steeplecab kit, so I started building the kit (2004) and as of Feb (2010) it ran without a hitch for the first time.
The steeple cabs where already in my mind to stay. Portage had a small trolley system that ran downtown and the town looks like it designed to have 40' spotted behind buildings. So that part was solved. But that didn't solve the big electrics. The power plant on the outside of town did, but it was too modern. I needed something that was turn of the century-ish (I didn't know why at the time...gut feeling), but a power plant wouldn't really work. A.) Portage wasn't big enough B.) No reference to one ever being there. A coke retort would have to do. I started with the premise that coal was barged down the Fox to Portage, but since the Fox is really on suitable for industrial navigation to Lake Winnabago, the plant owners started shipping coal by rail.
While all of this is going on, my mom's side of the family finally took it upon themselves to sort through the misc. things that my grandfather had collected. One of the items that I noticed and mentioned was a photo album. In that album was a photo of my mom, my grandfather, my uncle and a box car. The boxcar was an automotive box car with the lower two rows of slats removed. When I asked about it, mom reminded me that my grandfather had ridden the rails on the cattle show circut (1927-1956). I suddenly realized that this was the time period I would be modeling and that I NEEDED to model my grandfathers car (I have all of the parts now, I just need the time...)
With time frame, location, and motive power I started looking at a history and the history of the equipment I would be using. While there are some glaring holes that need to be covered up for the most part my roster for the Portage Northern is:
4 GE 40ton Steeplecabs 2 modeled after the Sacramento Northern (these are added in 1940) and two modeled after the Northshore electrics (these are the originals and are used in Portage to shift loads in town and in the yard.)
2 leased Milw Road Hvy Mikes. For most of the year the 4 electrics can handle the load, but come harvest time the demand for tin, and the removal of canned goods, and the sugar beets heading to Madison overwhelm the capacity of the electrics. So during the fall two engines are leased.
2 Lt 2-10-2 bothe engines are stabled in Plover. There the pick up coal coming in from the Green Bay and Western and move it south to Portage. 2-10-2's they were chosen as they caused less wear and tear than the Hvy Mikes, but were able to shift the longer trains of coal and coke needed.
1 Gas-electric Doodlebug. Purchased from the $oo Line when the P&NW took over the line it still trundles along making passenger runs up and down the system. Discounted rates for workers commuting to Montello for the mine and Portage for the buisness there. The P&NW takes a very pro-active approach to ridership and has conducted market research in the communities it serves as to the best times to run. The schedule is a only through to Plover once a day until canning season then it's twice, with a 40 tonner pulling a pair of coachs and two morning runs and two evening runs during the week. On Sunday there is a morning run and a mid afternoon run
And if your wondering how the railroad got enough money to have the route electrifed from Portage to Plover, the railroad excersiced the clause in Rural Electrification Project to bring electricity to the towns along the route, but since the railroad couldn't actually OWN the power production, but could own the means of transmission, and the right of way of that transmission, it turned to the Coke retort in town to "own" power production, (Can you say collusion...anyone, anyone). Coloma was able to build a hydroelectric facility and lease power to the grid, but all of the other towns became net users. The P&NW is currently looking for suitable sites for additional power production.
Future aquisitions...
As my railroad is really only planned out to 1954, I do have some odd balls that have been aquired and will eventually make their appearence on the layout and do duty there.
1 Little Joe. Not sure what the story will be, or if my line could even survive long enough to pick one up second hand.
1 SNB Crocodile. Odd duck, thinking museum piece, or that GE or Westinghouse bought the lisence to produce in the US.
2 AB sets of Box Cabs. Purchased second hand from the Milw and brought east to Portage. They are being shopped to replace the 2-10-2 which have already been sold to the DM&IR (hence the paint scheme they are in) (I have one unpowered B unit. I am currently waiting for the Chief of Staff's permission to purchase a A unit when found and another pair.)
2 F7 AB sets. When the Milw dieselfies These are leased to help haul during the autumn.
When you are running your own RR to me layout size is the main factor
I am going from 4 x 9.5 with 18/22 radius tabletop to 6.5 x 9.5 with 22/24 radius around the walls
No engine bigger than a Berk ( and even that seems too large for the consists 12 cars max ) and no rolling stock bigger than 40 ft --IMHO larger size engines or rolling stock look out of place
Running 5 to 8 cars with 4-4-0-----4-6-0------2-6-0 ---2-8-0-----2-8-2 ---GP20---FA2 can mirror real life operation
4-8-2 may be pushing it for that small a consist but does look good
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
Something else to think about is how to convey the appearance of a hand-me-down fleet...
As I've said, the Penn Lake operates with ALCO RS3s and S2/4s from it parent D&H and Reading. PL does show a well maintained fleet, it does contrast sharply with the ALCO late model RSs and Centuries and second generation EMD units the D&H and Reading use.
Another way to go about it is use patched paint schemes.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
For me its a matter of finding a Railroad I like(d) to watch in real life and during a time period and if the loco's are available in plastic to make it a little more affordable. For example, years ago I wanted to model the D&RGW in N-scale but there were not tunnle motors. I switched to HO and do the D&RGW now. The roster is more easy to represent in all EMD era too.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983