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Desert Terrain

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Desert Terrain
Posted by Silas III on Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:54 AM
I’m completely new to modeling and want to create a desert scene. It’s for up close macro photography so technically its nothing to do with trains but google pulled up some related questions in these very forums, so forgive me. The scene, loosely based on Joshua Tree national park, needs sand, rocks and maybe a couple of desert plants. I’ve seen the stuff at Scenic Express, and might get the Yucca plants, but that leaves me with sand and rocks to find. Is there a special type of sand modelers use or can I just steal some from the local school’s sandpit? Mischief The rocks should be like crevices that desert creatures crawl out from, so I guess thin shards, stacked on each other would be good. Thanks!

 

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:19 PM

Here in my neck of the Dessicated Desert the sand tends to be the same color as the sandstone rocks it has eroded from, unless it's sand that has been moved into the scene by flowing water (aka flash flood.)  Only 'imported' (by human intervention) sand will be at all uniform - natural color varies all over the spectrum, with red predominating.

A lot of desert surface isn't sand, it's hardpan (dessicated mud.)  Think deteriorated vinyl tile for texture, except that the separating lines aren't straight.

Most of the local 'critters' dig their under-the-rock burrows in the softer material the rock rests on, so the rock doesn't have to be (and typically isn't) stacked, broken shale.  A single monolithic boulder at the foot of a talus slope is far more common - and may very well hide a snake, or the burrow of a scorpion or desert tortoise.

Can't help much on materials for modeling desert plants.  I'm modeling a cedar forest, in an area that was anything but a desert.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in Southern Nevada)

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Posted by Eric97123 on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:25 PM

You can check Petco or Petsmart for the sand that is used for lizzard cages.  It come in bags and is a mix of coarseness that might work for you

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Posted by SBCA on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
Alright,

You have come to the right place.  This is a no-brainer.  There are two books you should get - sold right here on the Model Railroader website.

There is a model railroader named Pelle Soeborg, who models basically the Mojave Desert, although he lives in Denmark.  His work is outstanding.  (He's a graphic designer - it seems the artists are always the modelers with the best scenery)

The books are as follows:

Mountain to Desert – a book about his layout (I’m not finding here on the website – I sure hope they’re still publishing it!)

Essential Model Railroad Scenery Techniques

He’s also into very close-up photography.

You can see samples of his layout here:

http://www.soeeborg.dk/photogallery.html

The scenery book contains his latest scenery techniques.

 

OK guys - let's just lead this guy into the fire gently - he's not into model railroading, but we will slowly hook him.  Resistance is futile.  He has no idea what fun he's about to embark on : )

He'll maybe add one train track to his scene for kicks.  Before you know it, he'll be one of us...

www.pmdsb.com
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Posted by andrechapelon on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:35 PM

Silas III
I’m completely new to modeling and want to create a desert scene. It’s for up close macro photography so technically its nothing to do with trains but google pulled up some related questions in these very forums, so forgive me. The scene, loosely based on Joshua Tree national park, needs sand, rocks and maybe a couple of desert plants. I’ve seen the stuff at Scenic Express, and might get the Yucca plants, but that leaves me with sand and rocks to find. Is there a special type of sand modelers use or can I just steal some from the local school’s sandpit? Mischief The rocks should be like crevices that desert creatures crawl out from, so I guess thin shards, stacked on each other would be good. Thanks!

What scale are you going to do this in? Playground sand is pretty coarse stuff and each grain would be the size of a good sized rock in HO scale. If you're going to use real dirt, you'll probably want to sift it pretty thoroughly to get it as fine as possible. Mojave Desert dirt is generally a sort of beige color that should be relatively easy to duplicate (I lived in Mojave for a few years as a kid).

This might interest you as it covers using real cactus tof desert modeling. http://lariverrailroads.com/cactus.html

As for Joshua trees, pipe cleaners can be used as a base for creating them. You also might want to take a look at Ted York's Cajon Pass website. http://home.comcast.net/~cajonpass52/index.htm Although Cajon is mostly west of the Mojave desert, you will start seeing Joshua trees at the summit.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:38 PM

The books are as follows:

Mountain to Desert – a book about his layout (I’m not finding here on the website – I sure hope they’re still publishing it!)

Essential Model Railroad Scenery Techniques

He’s also into very close-up photography.

You can see samples of his layout here:

http://www.soeeborg.dk/photogallery.html

The scenery book contains his latest scenery techniques.

 

Let's make the link live. http://www.soeeborg.dk/photogallery.html

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by Silas III on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:49 PM

Thanks!! I think i'll get his latest book, the mountains to desert one is $77 on Amazon so it must be out of print.

do you think he covers the scale i'm working in? As Andre kindly pointed out, normal sand and other features might look too big. the segment of desert i hope to build is only 5" long, by 3" wide, hopefully you get the sense of scale.

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Posted by Silas III on Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:51 PM

Neat idea. The display actually has a tiny scorpion as the centerpiece so your idea could work.

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Posted by andrechapelon on Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:23 PM

Silas III

Thanks!! I think i'll get his latest book, the mountains to desert one is $77 on Amazon so it must be out of print.

do you think he covers the scale i'm working in? As Andre kindly pointed out, normal sand and other features might look too big. the segment of desert i hope to build is only 5" long, by 3" wide, hopefully you get the sense of scale.

Pelle also did a desert scenery article in  the April, 2005 issue of Model Railroader. You could probably order the issue from our hosts here. http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=MR&MO=4&YR=2005&output=3&sort=D

That's an awfully small diorama you're going to build. How many square feet of desert is it supposed to represent (an acre is 43,560 sq ft.)? If you were doing it in HO (1/87), the dimensions you listed would be roughly the equivalent of 36 ft. x 15 ft or about 540 sq ft. In N scale (1/160), it would be 983 sq ft.

Andre

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by andrechapelon on Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:28 PM

For Pelle's book, try eBay. There's one with a buy it now price of $15.36 and the vendor has 4 available.

http://tinyurl.com/ygx4gmg

It's a lot cheaper than $77.

Andre

 

It's really kind of hard to support your local hobby shop when the nearest hobby shop that's worth the name is a 150 mile roundtrip.
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Posted by VulcanCCIT on Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:14 PM

Hi there :)  I am doing something very similar. 

As already mentioned, the 2 books are very good to have.  In the Scenery Techniques book, he mentions Arizona Rock and Mineral products.  I have used that product and it works awesome but they are hit or miss as far as what is in stock at my hobby shop here.  However, I live in Phoenix so there is TONS of desert "dirt" all around me.  I have a landscaped front yard with decomposed granite that is desert color.  I scooped a bit of that up, sifted it in a strainer I bought at Target...and it comes out very even and very fine sand...about the density to Woodland Scenics "fine ballast".  However, sometimes you need it even finer that that...like almost the density of table salt.  That is about what the Arizona Rock and Mineral comes out to be.    So I have been mixing the AZ Rock and Mineral with a bit of Woodland Scenics or similar ground cover ...my sifted dirt and a touch of the fine ballast.  It looks awesome, at least I think so.

I will have som pics later this weekend if I get a bit more progress done.

Also, there are a bunch of landscaping companies here.  I called one up and told them what I was trying to do.  They suggested the USGS sand that they sell to golf courses for the sand traps.  It also gets strained and comes out about what I need.  A five gallon bucket was only 2 dollars! So I take that and use it as my base layer...and I sprinkle the mix I talked about above over the top (to vary the color and get the more fine look to it).    I plan to then go back and touch up some color variations with some thined acrylic paint in various desert colors.

I also have had good luck with the sand they sell at Michaels in their plant section that is supposed to be used for fake plant/floral arrangements.  It is about $4 for about 2-3 cups of sand and there are various colors.  Its about the density of the AZ Rock and Mineral but it tends to have some salt like granuals in it..where if the sand is brown...you will see a white granual here and there but I think when its mixed with the other stuff I mentioned above you do not see it...especially after you put the scenic cement on it.

With all of what I am doing, I am following the guidelines and techniques in the books mentioned earlier in this thread.

I hope this helps and I wish you luck!

- Chuck

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Posted by CSXDixieLine on Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:03 PM

I don't model the desert, but I definitely have to put in a plug for Pelle's latest book Essential Scenery Techniques. I purchased it about a month ago and have read it cover-to-cover at least ten times--I really like it! An entire section of the book (out of four) is devoted to building a desert module. He uses simple materials & techniques and the results are superb. Best $20 I have spent at the LHS recently. Jamie

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Posted by Silas III on Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:36 PM
I have a Michael's a short walk away and never even thought of them, I will add that to my list along with Petsmart's lizard section. This is fun already and I haven't even started. By the way, is commissioned work a big thing on these forums? If I find I don't have any talent for this i'd consider paying to have the piece done. I know, no fun it that.
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Posted by Lake on Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:25 PM

I use an electric coffee bean grinder for making soil as fine as I need it on my N-Scale layout. They cost very little and will work wonders with the look of the soil covers.

Sifting the sand or soil still leaves it to large for most uses. It also works to make ballast smaller so as to look more realistic.


 

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

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Posted by VulcanCCIT on Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:51 PM

Ken, so the grinder will actually grind the dirt? even if there are little rocks in there?  I never thought of that, i would of thought it would be too rough for the grinder.  I that is so, I might go buy one at target..  what brand of grinder do you use?

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Posted by VulcanCCIT on Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:53 PM

Silas lol I have thought that a few times myself.  I have said a few times in this forum, I want them all to come over and show me stuff hahha.  I might need to offer them beer?

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Posted by leighant on Friday, March 19, 2010 5:46 PM

Quick and dirty "desert" layout thrown together in about 10 days some 35 years ago as a demonstration for N scale.  Industrial-paper-towel and Hydrocal(r) hard-shell with Linn Westcott's zip texturing over it.  And Kitty-Litter(r) for the rock rubble.

 

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Posted by justinjhnsn3 on Saturday, March 20, 2010 8:33 AM

he will also be a special guest at the Model railroader booth at the national show. Moder railroader said that they will be releasing the Booth schedule at a future date.

I planed to go on saturday but i might just change dates if i could meet him.

Justin Johnson Green County Model Railroader Board Member Green County Model Railroader Show Co-Chairman / Show Coordinator www.gcmrrinc.org
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Posted by Electriccharlie on Saturday, March 20, 2010 9:34 AM

I live 4 miles from the entrance to the JTNP. I have the advantage of going to my west facing fence line and scooping up all the wind blown sand I could possibly use.If you can't do that go to Arizona Rock Products. Their material is excellent and they have all the colors you would ever need.I think I got my last batch thru MB Klien.

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, March 20, 2010 10:26 AM

For a model as small as you want, you need a powder instead of sand.  If you have a nearby hobby shop that sells trains, see if they have some weathering chalk or powder sets.

I have also used the powdered colorant for concrete and the powdered chalk for a chalk line, which can be purchased at just about any home improvement or hardware store. 

My home HO scale layout is desert scenery.  I have an advantage of living in the desert, though, so I just went into my back yard to get the necessary dirt and sand.

Still, it had to be mixed with other materials such as the weathering powders, cheap acrylic paints from Wal-mart, white glue, casting plaster, gerbil bedding, concrete colorant, etc.  You can see the results at http://members.cox.net/cacole2

 

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Posted by Southwest Chief on Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:34 AM

We modeled a section of the layout to represent the high desert of the Mojave. 

One year at a train show in Anaheim, California, we found excellent crafted Joshua trees.  They were made by a modeler who lived in Riverside, California.  Unfortunately I have not seen him at any recent shows and would love to know if he is still making these.

Here are some photos of the desert scenery:



Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, CO
Click Here for my model train photo website

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Posted by Silas III on Saturday, March 20, 2010 11:13 PM
I searched under MB Klien and ended up at Model Train Stuff, couldn't see the stuff you mentioned so maybe you can supply a link. I did find Highball 150 White Sand, says for all scales, but I'm guessing they don't mean the scale I'm working with.
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Posted by Electriccharlie on Sunday, March 21, 2010 7:25 AM

Modeltrainstuff is the web site for MB Klien.Here is the link to Arizona Rock,if they don't have it you wiill probably have to manufacture your own.

 

http://www.rrscenery.com/azrock3HO.html

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Posted by Silas III on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:03 PM
Hi guys Michaels only had this white powered stuff, it was pretty fine but not sure how I would get it the color I want. I did see the diorama stand though, almost went the easy route but walked on by…. The hobby shop in Memphis was more like it, but they didn’t have any fine sand, just normal. I did find some rock molds that could be useful, but the instructions on the back weren't very detailed. The Mountains to Desert book was never sent to me, they refunded my ebay money and said it was out of print. I’ve tried another auction so fingers crossed they actually have it.  I found a good picture that demonstrates what I’m going for. I want a sand dune, with the type of slope and dip you see in the picture. Is it possible to build up a dune like this and have it glued in place? By that I mean it appears like lose sand grains, but they don’t move, completely solid. I was also interested in doing the rock you see in the background. 

 

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Posted by Silas III on Monday, April 5, 2010 10:05 AM

is it possible to build dunes by mixing sand and glue? Or should I mould something else first, like polystyrene and then apply a thin layer of sand to that?

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