So,You are blaming Athearn for UPS damage?
Did you know UPS times their sorting employees and they have to handle so many packages a minute or get wrote up?
Why not contact Athearn so, they will make it right?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
This is the main reason why I inspect items at the store before paying for them (a reputable shop will have no problem with that because they want the customer to be happy). That way, if there is a problem with something broken, they will take care of it (as they still should). They should be able to return the item to Athearn for replacement, or obtain free replacement parts from Athearn--which may or may not take some time.
However, openly criticizing Athearn and/or UPS on forums such as this without first giving Athearn a chance to fix the problem does not normally endear the customer to them.
Packages and giant containers get damaged in shipment. How is UPS to know the damage didn't occur during shipping from China? Those giant containers get a lot of jostling before ever hitting American soil. If the Athearn box the item was in appears to be perfect--ie no corner damage--how can one realistically blame UPS. If it was UPS damage, the individual item box would normally show some kind of damage. Given that in most cases locomotives are shipped in case lots they can actually have damage and breakage inside the individual item box before UPS ever sees them--and the individual item box can still appear to be perfect. Now, if the moron at the distributor filling the order dropped the boxed model on the floor, normally one corner will show some damage--and if you do see that, it is likely it was dropped on a floor by someone. That is all the shock it takes for trucks to come apart.
As we modelers have demanded even more detail all the time, the job of safely getting the items from Asia to our country becomes more challenging all the time.
I have worked in the mail order model train industry--and unfortunately it is all too easy for the people filling the orders and handling stacks of items to drop a few. It happens more often than you think--and I'm sorry to say they don't bother to open up each item they drop and do an inspection. I also very much doubt that any "importer" or "manufacturer" opens up every single item from Asia to do any inspection before shipping them out to dealers.
My 2c.
John
I can understand the OP high level of frustration. Yes, shipments do get a rough treatment, everywhere in the world. It is not a China or UPS story alone. When things are getting damaged during transport, the packaging was not as protective as it should have been. This is also a quality issue. And it is the importers responsibility to ensure right packaging in his manufacturing specs and QC routines.
It is about time that we, the customers, stop finding excuses, why things can be broken or defunct. We have the right to demand quality products for our $$$ .
Aaron safiolesgood job UPS, or Athearn. good job. the back part of the trucks is broken, You see, on the CSX SD60! ATHG67272 there are a set of rear trucks, on the bottom of the trucks is a big long black clip. And on the top, there are 3, one to the front, and one to the back. And finally one in the middle. the ine in the middle has a little nub on it, that fits into a hole in the chassis, and keeps the rear wheels in-line. I KNOW that i did not break this. I lifted the loco out of it's box when it was mounted to the piece of wood, and placed it down gently o the table, and i noticed that the trucks were broken right then and there. it was shippeg via UPS. And it was delivered at my hobby shop on thursday. ( it came with a shipment for the store, as i ordered it thru them. Than pisses my right off, a 180 dollar engine, gone. although i did steal a clip, the exact same from my RTR AC4400CW ( CP 8546) Great job athearn, just freaking great.
This is precisely why I inspect the locomotive and have it test run at the shop before it leaves the store.
I assume you'll return it to the store (and if I were you, I'd put that clip back on).
What good has it done for you to complain about anything before you attempt to get the problem resolved? Shoot, last week I went into Carl's Junior (Hardee's to you effete Easterners) and when I started to walk out of the place with my to go order, I found out I'd been shorted a burger. Went back to the counter and the problem was promptly resolved. Of course, I could have walked out without checking my order, gotten home and discovered the missing burger and then broadcast my dissatisfaction over the Internet. I'd rather have the burger than the opportunity to whine online about being shorted one.
Andre
Here's an idea for you to use in the future....when an item arrives at your hobby shop that you ordered, ask the owner to test run it for you to ensure there are no issues with the item. That way, he sees the damage and submits a claim and you don't have to pay for a damaged item.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
It is about time that we, the customers, stop finding excuses, why things can be broken or defunct. We have the right to demand quality products for our $$$
Come on, Ulrich. He got it from a store. He could have had it test run before he left. I always do that. I have never come home with a bad locomotive. I've had to leave some at the store because they were obviously defective, but I've never brought one home.
The last quality control check should be the one you make yourself.
Andre,
you are right in this case. But I have to rely on mail ordering, as I have only a limited supply of US prototype equipment here in Germany. And believe me, the hassle to return a defunct loco is beyond your imagination!
As I stated in an earlier post, in my 47 years of model railroading, I never encountered issues like that, until I started to model US prototype...
Have fun!
Sir Madog Andre, you are right in this case. But I have to rely on mail ordering, as I have only a limited supply of US prototype equipment here in Germany. And believe me, the hassle to return a defunct loco is beyond your imagination! As I stated in an earlier post, in my 47 years of model railroading, I never encountered issues like that, until I started to model US prototype... Have fun!
I'll concede your point, to some extent. However, things can go wrong in shipping regardless of how well things are packed. I wonder what the case would be if I were to order Roco, Fleischmann or Trix from Germany. I have some, but they were all bought in a hobby shop and any international shipping was done by me in my carry on luggage (this was years ago). In any case, I knew things worked when they left the shop. Fortunately, nothing was ever damaged on the trip back.
The hobby was considerably different in the US years ago than was the case in Europe. There was nothing like Fleischmann, Trix or Maerklin supplying ready-to-run equipment. Locomotives were kits as was rolling stock. That's part of the big controversy over here, everyone complaining about the death of kits and craftsmanship. We had to make the stuff work ourselves. And yes, kits sometimes had missing parts.
As for items that arrive damaged, I would think you could email the manufacturer with digital photos and they would be willing to supply the parts for repair. It's a lot simpler than shipping the entire item.
There is a modeler over here who has decided to model Australian prototype. That means everything needs to be shipped from Down Under. He's pretty much in the same boat you are when it comes to receiving damaged or defective items.
Aaron safioleswell, it arrived on friday, and i didnt have the money till saturday, and the actual owner isn't there on weekends, so i made kind of a dumb choice ill admit, but i waited a LOOOOONG time for this engine, and im NOT about to ship it back.
Well if you don't want to ship it back it's plainly simple that you now own a$180 paper weight. You know relax it's not worth getting your gut in a knot over. It's a toy train for god sakes. You know the old saying let the buyer beware well it's your own fault for not inspecting it in the hobby shop. You feel bad for a $180 locomotive well how would you feel if your Broadway Limited SP Cab Forward which runs around $700 was defective right out of the box. It happened to me and I didn't even flinch, the owner of the LHS that I used to deal with said well at least your taking this well. I said sure why shouldn't I it's your engine I'll just call AMEX and stop payment on it but I know I won't have to do that because your going to make good on it right. Of course he did why because it didn't cost him anything other then the shipping. Thats called customer service. Your LHS didn't get that for you out of the goodness of their heart they made money off of you and they have an obligation to their customer. So you go back to the guy and hand it back to him and say you want another one. At worst case scenario you send it back to Athearn and with in a week you''ll have a new one.
Hey things happen this isn't a perfect world we live in, hey your mad how do you think the guy who plunked down $30,000 or $40,000 for a new Toyota feels.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Aaron safioleswell, it arrived on friday, and i didnt have the money till saturday, and the actual owner isn't there on weekends, so i made kind of a dumb choice ill admit, but i waited a LOOOOONG time for this engine, and im NOT about to ship it back. Well if you don't want to ship it back it's plainly simple that you now own a$180 paper weight. You know relax it's not worth getting your gut in a knot over. It's a toy train for god sakes. You know the old saying let the buyer beware well it's your own fault for not inspecting it in the hobby shop. You feel bad for a $180 locomotive well how would you feel if your Broadway Limited SP Cab Forward which runs around $700 was defective right out of the box. It happened to me and I didn't even flinch, the owner of the LHS that I used to deal with said well at least your taking this well. I said sure why shouldn't I it's your engine I'll just call AMEX and stop payment on it but I know I won't have to do that because your going to make good on it right. Of course he did why because it didn't cost him anything other then the shipping. Thats called customer service. Your LHS didn't get that for you out of the goodness of their heart they made money off of you and they have an obligation to their customer. So you go back to the guy and hand it back to him and say you want another one. At worst case scenario you send it back to Athearn and with in a week you''ll have a new one. Hey things happen this isn't a perfect world we live in, hey your mad how do you think the guy who plunked down $30,000 or $40,000 for a new Toyota feels.
I couldn't agree more.
Will
wholeman Allegheny2-6-6-6 Aaron safioleswell, it arrived on friday, and i didnt have the money till saturday, and the actual owner isn't there on weekends, so i made kind of a dumb choice ill admit, but i waited a LOOOOONG time for this engine, and im NOT about to ship it back. Well if you don't want to ship it back it's plainly simple that you now own a$180 paper weight. You know relax it's not worth getting your gut in a knot over. It's a toy train for god sakes. You know the old saying let the buyer beware well it's your own fault for not inspecting it in the hobby shop. You feel bad for a $180 locomotive well how would you feel if your Broadway Limited SP Cab Forward which runs around $700 was defective right out of the box. It happened to me and I didn't even flinch, the owner of the LHS that I used to deal with said well at least your taking this well. I said sure why shouldn't I it's your engine I'll just call AMEX and stop payment on it but I know I won't have to do that because your going to make good on it right. Of course he did why because it didn't cost him anything other then the shipping. Thats called customer service. Your LHS didn't get that for you out of the goodness of their heart they made money off of you and they have an obligation to their customer. So you go back to the guy and hand it back to him and say you want another one. At worst case scenario you send it back to Athearn and with in a week you''ll have a new one. Hey things happen this isn't a perfect world we live in, hey your mad how do you think the guy who plunked down $30,000 or $40,000 for a new Toyota feels. I couldn't agree more.
I also agree.
BRAKIEwholeman Allegheny2-6-6-6 Aaron safioleswell, it arrived on friday, and i didnt have the money till saturday, and the actual owner isn't there on weekends, so i made kind of a dumb choice ill admit, but i waited a LOOOOONG time for this engine, and im NOT about to ship it back. Well if you don't want to ship it back it's plainly simple that you now own a$180 paper weight. You know relax it's not worth getting your gut in a knot over. It's a toy train for god sakes. You know the old saying let the buyer beware well it's your own fault for not inspecting it in the hobby shop. You feel bad for a $180 locomotive well how would you feel if your Broadway Limited SP Cab Forward which runs around $700 was defective right out of the box. It happened to me and I didn't even flinch, the owner of the LHS that I used to deal with said well at least your taking this well. I said sure why shouldn't I it's your engine I'll just call AMEX and stop payment on it but I know I won't have to do that because your going to make good on it right. Of course he did why because it didn't cost him anything other then the shipping. Thats called customer service. Your LHS didn't get that for you out of the goodness of their heart they made money off of you and they have an obligation to their customer. So you go back to the guy and hand it back to him and say you want another one. At worst case scenario you send it back to Athearn and with in a week you''ll have a new one. Hey things happen this isn't a perfect world we live in, hey your mad how do you think the guy who plunked down $30,000 or $40,000 for a new Toyota feels. I couldn't agree more. I also agree.
Absolutely right.
Holy Mackerel! people actually agree with me...........lol Hey to the O/P we don't want to sound like we're dumping on you but it's something that has happened to all of us one time or another it's just your degree of anger seems to be way over the top. Lets face it this ain't the good old days when people took pride in their work and made and sold you a product that would out last you in most cases. I have a 1917 Ford Model T out in my shop that belongs to a friend that I'm doing a little touch up work on. That thing is 93 years old almost as old as Brakie is, heck I think he might have drive one to high school back in the day....
But seriously thats a product that was made to last do you honestly think some guy will be working on a 2010 Chevy or Ford or anything else in almost 100 years? If stuff like what happened to you really bothers you that much then maybe you should switch hobby's It's a fact and unfortunate one but it's a fact of what happens with model trains. It's happened to me more times then I care to think about but call me pig headed or stubborn as a mule but I still love this hobby. My wife laughs herself silly some nights when she is up stairs trying to watch TV and she hears some of my tirades and inventive language coming from the train room and when I finally do come up stairs she says the same thing every time when does this train stuff start becoming fun again I forgot.........lol
Send your engine to Athearn and get it replaced or repaired and I defy you to tell me when you do get it back and put it on the track that you don't have a grin from ear to ear thinking yeah now thats cool. If you still don't want to send it back then send it to me, I'll gladly pay for the postage,
Sir Madog I can understand the OP high level of frustration. Yes, shipments do get a rough treatment, everywhere in the world. It is not a China or UPS story alone. When things are getting damaged during transport, the packaging was not as protective as it should have been. This is also a quality issue. And it is the importers responsibility to ensure right packaging in his manufacturing specs and QC routines. It is about time that we, the customers, stop finding excuses, why things can be broken or defunct. We have the right to demand quality products for our $$$ .
And exactly what level of protection should packages be made to? No matter how well packaging is designed, some "professional" at the post office or UPS will figure out how to drop it harder, throw it further or crush it with more weight.
I know, each model should come in a 1/4" plate steel box so as to withstand even being run over by a small auto. Wait, no that's not good enough, the box should withstand the weight of the delivery truck without damage - would that be good enough?
Another one of those diminishing return issues - at what point does the cost of increased quality out pace the usefullness of that increase in quality? Actually raising the cost to no measurable end?
Yes an $90,000 BMW is a better car than my $35,000 Ford - but for my needs its not 2.5 times better and not likely to last 2.5 times longer - so the Ford is a better value as long as it does what I need.
Same is largely true with model trains.
Sheldon
..... I have a 1917 Ford Model T out in my shop that belongs to a friend that I'm doing a little touch up work on. That thing is 93 years old almost as old as Brakie is, heck I think he might have drive one to high school back in the day....
But seriously thats a product that was made to last do you honestly think some guy will be working on a 2010 Chevy or Ford or anything else in almost 100 years?.....
You ever talk to anyone who actually owned a Model T when they were still coming off the assembly line? They had a saying back then about "getting out and getting under" because the bloody things were always breaking down for some reason or another. They had a gravity feed fuel tank and if it wasn't full, they often had to back up hill to prevent the engine from starving for fuel. Heaters were aftermarket items and windshield wipers were hand operated. There was no such thing as safety glass.
I'm sorry but that old wive's tale just won't hold water when the rose colored glasses are removed. OK, it's 93 years old. How many of the parts are original and how much has it cost over the last 93 years to keep it in running shape (assuming it is in running shape). And how many miles does it have on it?
If someone made a car today with the reliability of a Model T, they'd rapidly go bankrupt. All it takes to keep a car alive 93 years is the willingness of its various owners to keep it going and spend money on it. Same thing applies to any piece of machinery. There's a stationary steam engine at the Beamish Museum in the UK that's 150 years old. It still works because someone was willing to put the time and money in it to bring it back to life.
You paid 180.00 for that loco I paid 110.50 for all six of mine
Russell
andrechapelon..... I have a 1917 Ford Model T out in my shop that belongs to a friend that I'm doing a little touch up work on. That thing is 93 years old almost as old as Brakie is, heck I think he might have drive one to high school back in the day.... But seriously thats a product that was made to last do you honestly think some guy will be working on a 2010 Chevy or Ford or anything else in almost 100 years?..... You ever talk to anyone who actually owned a Model T when they were still coming off the assembly line? They had a saying back then about "getting out and getting under" because the bloody things were always breaking down for some reason or another. They had a gravity feed fuel tank and if it wasn't full, they often had to back up hill to prevent the engine from starving for fuel. Heaters were aftermarket items and windshield wipers were hand operated. There was no such thing as safety glass. I'm sorry but that old wive's tale just won't hold water when the rose colored glasses are removed. OK, it's 93 years old. How many of the parts are original and how much has it cost over the last 93 years to keep it in running shape (assuming it is in running shape). And how many miles does it have on it? If someone made a car today with the reliability of a Model T, they'd rapidly go bankrupt. All it takes to keep a car alive 93 years is the willingness of its various owners to keep it going and spend money on it. Same thing applies to any piece of machinery. There's a stationary steam engine at the Beamish Museum in the UK that's 150 years old. It still works because someone was willing to put the time and money in it to bring it back to life. Andre
Now your talking semantics of course cars were in their infancy back in those days as compared to the level of sophistication that they are designed and built to by today's standards. But all things being equal Henry Ford never ad a recall the size and scope of the great Toyota disaster so much for modern technology. The analogy was intended ti illustrate that even though. a 1917 Model T ford with all it's so called short coming withstood the test of time and is still here today. I can say with almost complete certainty that in 97 years you won't be seeing any entry level cars be any manufacture around.
If you want an analogy more suited to us how about Steam locomotives that are still in use today. Granted they are spending leisurely days hauling rail fan's up and down tourist railroads and many have been lovingly restored but the point is these machines like the Model T Ford were built to last and the men who built them took pride in what they did. Think about this with all the complexity and hundreds if not thousands of individual parts that make up a steam locomotive. There were no computer program or CNC machines or robot welders etc. to build them. There were rooms full of men sitting at drafting tables with slide rules and welders and riveters and steam fitters designing and building every single part.
You can't honestly say that the same level of pride in workmanship and quality component gos into a model locomotive with the exception of high dollar brass pieces. The reason why the O/P's locomotive was a piece of junk is because pride and quality have been replaced with speed of production and the bottom line in today's manufacturing.generally speaking mode trains are no different then anything else thats made out there today.
IIRC, Henry never had a recall because there was no agency responsible for highway safety. There would have been no reason for a recall because they wouldn't have realized they had defective vehicles. Toyota's real problem is not a technological problem, but a failure of organization and the loss of the founder's vision.
The steam locomotive in its 2 cylinder simple exemplar is not a particularly complex machine. Even countries not known for their manufacturing prowess (e.g. New Zealand) could manufacture them. Furthermore, steam locomotives, over their lifespans quite frequently had very few of their original parts left or were so completely rebuilt that you have to know the history of the engine to know what it looked like when fresh out of the factory.
What a fatuous statement since you're assuming facts not in evidence. All we know is that the loco was defective upon opening the box. We don't know why. We don't know if it came from the factory defective or was damaged at some point in transit. All we can say for sure is that he was cranky about discovering his new purchase had something wrong with it upon removing it from the box.
Every loco I currently own works just fine. All but one were bought at a brick and mortar hobby shop, were test run at the shop before money changed hands and were visually inspected by me. My advice to the OP is simply to return the item to the shop and ask for a new one or a refund. I'd also advise him to check out his purchase next time before leaving the store.
Andre, the OP bought the loco mail order/internet - which is his problem in the first place!!
It's obvious that your the your in the minority of poster who realities that this is an unfortunate part of the hobby and there was/is a simple solution to the O/P's problem just stop crying about and send it back end of story. All the bitching and anger isn't going to change anything. He didn't feel as though he was responsible in any way shape or form or that "Let the buyer beware" did not apply in his case. It's a fact of life but we all need to be our own consumer advocate all of the time. If trans were 100% perfect 100% of the time there wouldn't be test tracks in Train stores one reason to buy form your LHS rather then the internet.
If you feel trains today are built to a high standard and have never experienced any manufactures defects then your definitely in a minority. I have prewar Lionel's that run like the day they came out of the box I also have brass locomotives that are from the 1960's that run like a Swiss watch and far exceed modern versions in both brass and resin in every respect. It's all do to pride in workmanship I am not about to Hi-jack the O/P's thread and turn it in to a flame war of nit picking useless statements and details. We agree to disagree and leave it at that.
lvanhen Andre, the OP bought the loco mail order/internet - which is his problem in the first place!!
No, actually he didn't. Here's the relevant part:
And it was delivered at my hobby shop on thursday. ( it came with a shipment for the store, as i ordered it thru them. Than pisses my right off, a 180 dollar engine, gone. although i did steal a clip, the exact same from my RTR AC4400CW ( CP 8546) Great job athearn, just freaking great.
Here's the OP's second post on the engine:
Midnight RailroaderBRAKIEwholeman Allegheny2-6-6-6 Aaron safioleswell, it arrived on friday, and i didnt have the money till saturday, and the actual owner isn't there on weekends, so i made kind of a dumb choice ill admit, but i waited a LOOOOONG time for this engine, and im NOT about to ship it back. Well if you don't want to ship it back it's plainly simple that you now own a$180 paper weight. You know relax it's not worth getting your gut in a knot over. It's a toy train for god sakes. You know the old saying let the buyer beware well it's your own fault for not inspecting it in the hobby shop. You feel bad for a $180 locomotive well how would you feel if your Broadway Limited SP Cab Forward which runs around $700 was defective right out of the box. It happened to me and I didn't even flinch, the owner of the LHS that I used to deal with said well at least your taking this well. I said sure why shouldn't I it's your engine I'll just call AMEX and stop payment on it but I know I won't have to do that because your going to make good on it right. Of course he did why because it didn't cost him anything other then the shipping. Thats called customer service. Your LHS didn't get that for you out of the goodness of their heart they made money off of you and they have an obligation to their customer. So you go back to the guy and hand it back to him and say you want another one. At worst case scenario you send it back to Athearn and with in a week you''ll have a new one. Hey things happen this isn't a perfect world we live in, hey your mad how do you think the guy who plunked down $30,000 or $40,000 for a new Toyota feels. I couldn't agree more. I also agree. Absolutely right.
Hey, I agree too !!
If you feel trains today are built to a high standard and have never experienced any manufactures defects then your definitely in a minority. I have prewar Lionel's that run like the day they came out of the box I also have brass locomotives that are from the 1960's that run like a Swiss watch and far exceed modern versions in both brass and resin in every respect. It's all do to pride in workmanship
Of course I've experienced manufacturing defects and/or shipment damage. However, when I ran into it, it was in the store and it was thus the shop owner's issue, not mine. I would ask for another and that would be inspected/test run before I accepted it.
"Pride in workmanship" is the issue? How do you get that in this case? We just DON"T KNOW what caused the problem with the OP's engine. You've taken a single example of a problem and blown it into a rant against modern manufacturing when the root cause of the OP's problem remains shrouded in mystery. The fact that you have stuff from the 60's still running is totally irrelevant. Wouldn't surprise me if the OP's engine, once the problem is fixed, runs quite well for a long time assuming that it's maintained properly.
andrechapelonI'm sorry but that old wive's tale just won't hold water when the rose colored glasses are removed. OK, it's 93 years old. How many of the parts are original and how much has it cost over the last 93 years to keep it in running shape (assuming it is in running shape). And how many miles does it have on it? If someone made a car today with the reliability of a Model T, they'd rapidly go bankrupt. All it takes to keep a car alive 93 years is the willingness of its various owners to keep it going and spend money on it. Same thing applies to any piece of machinery. There's a stationary steam engine at the Beamish Museum in the UK that's 150 years old. It still works because someone was willing to put the time and money in it to bring it back to life. Andre
If you are interested, I have the axe George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree. The head has only been replaced 3 times and the handle 4--but it is original.
Instead, the OP took it home without so much as looking at it, found out there was something wrong and then went on a rant against Athearn and UPS. We still don't know if it was a factory defect or damage in shipment and probably never will.
Definitely designed to last.
I've got a toaster from around 1910. It actually still works. However, it's horribly inefficient. Toasts only one side of a single piece of bread at a time and has an ingenious, if Rube Goldbergesque, mechanism to expose the other side of the bread. Nothing is enclosed, so much of the heat escapes before doing anything to the bread. IOW, as a toaster, it's poorly designed for the task at hand. Still works, though. It's an interesting example of an early 20th Century appliance and gives some insight into the mindset of designers of that era.
"although i did steal a clip, the exact same from my RTR AC4400CW ( CP 8546)"
. my feeling is Brakie may be correct, this guy either dropped the engine or damaged it himself and is now trying to blame everyone but himself. I refuse to believe after having numerous great experiences with Athearn customer service that they would refuse to make good on a legitimate customer complaint.Believe what you want about the O/P but his story stinks.