Philosophy Friday -- What are the Most Important Elements of Model Railroading?

[IVRW]

I think that the basic of Model Railroading is Modeling. Everything from landforming, to detailing. Operation is the realization of the finished modeling, and benchwork, wiring, and trackwork are all the beginning of the realization of operation and modeling.

[Texas Zepher]

jwhitten

What do you suppose are the most important elements of Model Railroading and/or being a Model Railroader?

Aside from the trains themselves of course--

Well, one can model a train and not be a model railroader.  To me the answer is - the railroad.  A harder question is then raised.  At what point does some sort of miniature train and track become a railroad?  To me that point is somewhere beyond a model loco / train sitting in a display case, but neither is it all the way to demanding that miniature locos and cars move model cargo from one point to another.

Is it your "mind's eye view"-- some "essence" you're trying to capture? The "construction" aspects? The modeling? Scratchbuilding/Kitbashing something? Getting an "overall aesthetic"? Capturing a piece of your youth? (a scene, a place, a time, a feeling, something along those lines?) 

That is actually a totally different question.   The flavor of the hobby is determine by all of these variations that a model railroad can take.  As long as there is a railroad at the base it doesn't matter if the modeler chooses to specialize or emphasize the dramatic scenery, detailed scenery, highly accurate and detailed equipment,  prototypical consisted trains, prototypical operations, dispatching, or whatever. Without these people specializing and pushing up the bar in all these areas the generalists among us are not inspired to do more.  If everyone was satisfied with X then X+1 would never happen.

It is yet a third completely different question asking which elements of designing / constructing / operating the model railroads is most enjoyable to us as a modeler.

 

[tomikawaTT]

Model railroading is fun.  (If it isn't, you're in the wrong hobby...)

Of course, fun takes many different forms:

The practical:

• Conversion of a mass of construction materials into the benchwork that will support a model empire.
• Seeing the designated derailment checker run through that newly-laid track at double track speed - in reverse.
• Having a bunch of parts come together to produce a whole that meets or exceeds expectations.

 

And the whimsical:

• Creating an idealized version of some fondly-remembered place - without the sunburn and mosquitoes.
• Feeling the brute strength of a 2-8-2 leaning into a train from a standing stop just meters short of the little sign that indicates the beginning of seven kilometers of 25/1000 (2.5%) grade.
• Enjoying the look on some rivet counter's face when (s)he realizes that the train of articulated coal hoppers behind the Japanese-style Golwe never had a 1:1 scale prototype.

 

But, above all, the feeling that everything in this little world is the way that it is because that's the way the modeler wants it to be.

Do I resemble any of the above.  Guilty as charged...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[barrok]

Hmmmm, the most important element of model railroading -- I would say the model railroader himself/herself! :)

[aloco]

The most important elements of model railroading are locomotives.  When I look at a layout or look at pictures of layouts the first things I look for are locomotives.   The locomotives are the stars of the show,  while the track, the scenery, the structures, and the rolling stock are the supporting cast.

[TMarsh]

First I MUST say, the scene Lee posted is just fantastic!

Now to the thought at hand.

The most important element to me, is being able to create a world that I like. Leave the hub bub of real life and create a place I'd like to be. Whether it be a real place, or fictitious place or, a combo of both. The way I'd like it to be now, or return to a time I enjoyed. For whatever reason the time or place, Model Railroading allows me to go there. It also allows me to relax while I am doing this and spend time reflecting, or dreaming. And as it gets closer to completion or upon completion, if there is a thing, the result isn't just a dream, but reality.

Many have said the same thing but just wanted to say more than "ditto".

[ns3010]

The most important elements of a MRR are the trains!

Seriously, though, they're all important, IMO.

[PASMITH]

Two Truck Shay

It's creating a little world of my own for me. It's a view of a now vintage time, the 40s and 50s in America. It's a world that is based upon honesty and simple work ethics to achieve success. It's also a world of broken down sawmills and dilapidated rolling stock, a place that is sometimes held together with chicken wire and spit, and hope for better days. Maybe it's a place called Willoughby, or something like that.

Maybe it's wishful thinking nestled in a hidden part of a man's mind, or maybe it's the last stop in the vast design of things, or perhaps, for a man like Mr. Gart Williams, who climbed on a world that went by too fast, it's a place around the bend where he could jump off. Willoughby? Whatever it is, it comes with sunlight and serenity and is a part of the Twilight Zone.

Sorry, got a little carried away...

Wow, you gave me a new vision. Trying to create the essence and the scenes from the song " City Of New Orleans." Peter Smith, Memphis

[blownout cylinder]

jwhitten

blownout cylinder

To me, working on structures, bridges and scenery is a relaxing activity. I'm trying to make the northern plains/prairies appear on my layout in terms of the atmosphere and the activity that I saw and experienced when I lived there awhile back. My layout, then, becomes that stage setting for the activities/people/scenery/trains I saw, as well as experienced, up there.

I may not get anywhere near the reality of being there but, at least, one can try.

 

 

So are you going for a "big sky" look?

 

That may be. Considering that I only have 7 actual sites that have any "population" of any sort on it! I'm sort of thinking along the lines of Lance Mindheim's approach to his "Monon Route"(?) layout. Except mine is approaching high season, I guess---

JohnCNJ: I've been kind of wondering about that phase of JA's myself. Even with the humourous aspect I found that his modelling, at least from my viewpoint, was actually such that he was far more effective than most others at that point. To me the modelling was really good---humour or no. 

[CNJ831]

jwhitten

Do you ever wonder where John Allen would be with his railroading if he were still alive (or had just lived longer) ?? Do you think the G&D was his crowning achievement or would he have ripped it down and started a new one (a la Allen McClelland or Tony Koester) ??

This question, to my mind, is a far more fascinating one to explore and ponder than this thread's original subject. And quite possibly the answers might prove to be more surprising than many hobbyist might think.

From a number of period items I've read that might offer insight into J.A. and the G&D, I've gotten the impression that toward the end J.A. might not really have been all that happy about the hobby's take on the whole G&D thing. John was certainly an outstanding modeler, as well as a professional photographer of sorts. However, I think too much of what we saw of his work in print was tongue-in-cheek, like the caricature-style aspects of the Varney ads, or images of excessively rotund little men atop absurdly swayback rolling stock in Trackside Photos. This comical aspect overshadowed much of J.A.'s real talent as a master modeler (see his great instructional articles in 50's and 60's MRs).

John was known for his sense of humor and indeed did many amusing things when operating the G&D, but I wonder just how far this really carried? It's fairly well known that he was eventually unhappy with the gimmicky G&D name, and I suspect also that he might have felt that his serious modeling might not be nearly as much appreciated as it really should have been.

An artist, if he should become famous for some off the cuff cartoon he might have scribbled, can become very unhappy with his situation when his true artistry is not fully appreciated - just consider the situation of writer Arthur Conan Doyle and his creation Sherlock Holmes. So, I've more than once tended to suspect that this might have been true of J.A. and his G&D. In that light, had he not had health concerns and lived longer, I think that he would very likely have replaced the G&D with a very realistic, prototype layout, that did not have nearly as much of the fantasy aspect as did the old G&D.

It would certainly be interesting to hear Andy's insight on this question, given that he was part of the original G&D crew.

CNJ831

 

[HaroldA]

The best thing for me is to develop skills that I never knew I had.  I am a pretty decent carpenter and electrician but I never thought I was 'artistic' until I began to tackle scenery.  It's a whole new dimension for me that I never knew existed.  Then to be able to take that skill and develop it is what the hobby has done for me.  Then along with that it has allows me to create scenes from places I have visited at one time or another and that have only existed in my memory.  So when I go to the lower level (read, basement) I can see something that I have created which to me is the best part of all. 

[Two Truck Shay]

It's creating a little world of my own for me. It's a view of a now vintage time, the 40s and 50s in America. It's a world that is based upon honesty and simple work ethics to achieve success. It's also a world of broken down sawmills and dilapidated rolling stock, a place that is sometimes held together with chicken wire and spit, and hope for better days. Maybe it's a place called Willoughby, or something like that.

Maybe it's wishful thinking nestled in a hidden part of a man's mind, or maybe it's the last stop in the vast design of things, or perhaps, for a man like Mr. Gart Williams, who climbed on a world that went by too fast, it's a place around the bend where he could jump off. Willoughby? Whatever it is, it comes with sunlight and serenity and is a part of the Twilight Zone.

Sorry, got a little carried away...

[jwhitten]

jacon12

jwhitten

And he *is* very, very good with the trains too. We have a little ad-hoc "yard" (four spurs), a section of "mainline", about maybe 20-25 feet, a yard lead (which he actually *understands*!!!), and a "industry switching" section with a couple of spurs and a run-around track. He's too little to uncouple the cars by himself, and he can't really read very well yet so I set up the locos for him, but he has a nice soft touch with the trains, knows how to make them creep through the yard and stop darn-near precisely where I point. And he's getting the hang of "switching" too-- he figured out what the runaround track was for yesterday and now he's making some pretty sophisticated moves (for a 2-1/2 yo).

Darn, he's better than some of the grown men I have over for ops sessions! 

Think I could get him over to give lessons?

Jarrell

 

 

BTW, I found out today that the first building on one of the industry spurs is a "Spaghetti Factory" and the second building on the spur, where we spot the tank cars, is a "Spaghetti Sauce Factory"

[jwhitten]

jacon12

jwhitten

And he *is* very, very good with the trains too. We have a little ad-hoc "yard" (four spurs), a section of "mainline", about maybe 20-25 feet, a yard lead (which he actually *understands*!!!), and a "industry switching" section with a couple of spurs and a run-around track. He's too little to uncouple the cars by himself, and he can't really read very well yet so I set up the locos for him, but he has a nice soft touch with the trains, knows how to make them creep through the yard and stop darn-near precisely where I point. And he's getting the hang of "switching" too-- he figured out what the runaround track was for yesterday and now he's making some pretty sophisticated moves (for a 2-1/2 yo).

Darn, he's better than some of the grown men I have over for ops sessions! 

Think I could get him over to give lessons?

Jarrell

 

 

Well, getting him over to run the trains would be the easy part. Getting him to stop and go home would be a little trickier...

[jwhitten]

bulldog_fan

jwhitten

...And the best part is my  2-1/2 yo son is having a blast running the trains and "working on the layout" with me...  I can't wait for my other son to get old enough to help-- he's 9mo's now, but growing fast!

 

This is terrific.

I was going to chime in that one of the central elements for me is feeling a sense of connection to my grandfather.  He loved trains, and when I was a little kid he'd take me trainwatching now and then when we'd go to visit.  I had a few model trains as a teenager but they'd mostly sat in a box for the last few decades; I got re-interested about a year ago when something reminded me of some of the trains I'd watched all those years ago with my grandfather.  So far I haven't done much other than acquire a bunch of locomotives and cars, but the ones that resonate with me typically have some connection to some personal experience from the past.  I have an Empire Builder set because catching one rolling towards Chicago was the height of excitement with my grandfather all those years ago, I have Milwaukee Road E-units in Union Pacific colors because seeing an ad for one flashed me back thirty or forty years to watching those very trains pull in and out of Chicago-area stations, etc.

Whether or not your kids stick with model railroading as the years go by, I think you're building a great foundation of memories with them...and you never know when those will come back later in life and shape what they do as adults.  Good for you for paying attention and enjoying it now!

Dean

 

 

Your account is very similar to my own. My grandfather and uncle were both into railroading, both as real-life railfans and model railroaders. They lived in Delaware and were Pennsy fans-- I come by it honestly :-)  My dad and my uncle built a layout for me when I was a kid-- re-built one of my uncle's actually-- one that I remember from when I was even younger and have fond memories of helping my uncle to operate. His memories may perhaps not be quite as fond... I think a couple of his trains may have taken a shortcut over the side. Come to think of it, sometimes I think it may be a miracle that I survived my childhood... 

I love spending time with my kids--they are the delight of my life. And I'm glad they're having fun with the trains-- even if, as you suggest, they grow out of it later, I and hopefully they, will have a lifetime of good memories. And hopefully they'll learn some useful skills and how to think for themselves and solve problems methodically. Stuff that is hard to learn in today's overworked, underfunded, overcrowded schools. 

[jwhitten]

MadSinger

My explanation:

I am in love with rural Southwestern Wisconsin.  The land and the culture.  The region experienced a boom in the late 50', early 60's, and things were looking up.  I enjoy creating the atmosphere of this time, as it was a great time for the region and the country.  Both my parents grew up in this time period and location and can help me, since I did not personally experience it.

If that's not good enough for you, then you can discredit me as a Model Railroader.

Tyler

 

 

Well maybe, but not before a pop quiz-- quick, what local roads operate(d) in Southwestern Wisconsin? And for extra credit-- describe their appeal. 

 

John

[jwhitten]

pbjwilson

I think my favorite part of the hobby is investigating how railroads worked 50, 60, 70 yrs ago. The history and the people of the past that ran the railroads. I've found its much more interesting to look at photos from the past and not model them exactly, but try to capture the feel and period of time thats represented. A good model railroad to me is one that gives a sense of time, place, history and looks as if it is a real working railroad. Searching the internet for info on coal mining for instance has tought me so much about how railroads and mining were intertwined.  

 

 

That sounds like a sensible approach. Do you have a particular prototype you follow?

[jacon12]

jwhitten

And he *is* very, very good with the trains too. We have a little ad-hoc "yard" (four spurs), a section of "mainline", about maybe 20-25 feet, a yard lead (which he actually *understands*!!!), and a "industry switching" section with a couple of spurs and a run-around track. He's too little to uncouple the cars by himself, and he can't really read very well yet so I set up the locos for him, but he has a nice soft touch with the trains, knows how to make them creep through the yard and stop darn-near precisely where I point. And he's getting the hang of "switching" too-- he figured out what the runaround track was for yesterday and now he's making some pretty sophisticated moves (for a 2-1/2 yo).

Darn, he's better than some of the grown men I have over for ops sessions! 

Think I could get him over to give lessons?

Jarrell

[jwhitten]

selector

jwhitten

selector

4. creating a believable and functioning whole that is greater than the sum of its parts (...sorry, many of you should have anticipated that statement. );-Crandell

 

 

 

I've seen pictures of your layout. You've definitely achieved creating a hole that's every bit the sum of its parts, with a reverse loop through it no less.... 

 (    )

 

John

Ha, you got me there, John.   I doubt I'll try that experiment again.  No great regrets, all things considered, but my druthers would be to have a walk-in.

-Crandell

 

 

Crandell,

You have a  beautiful layout and nothing to apologize for. I hope mine turns out half as nice as yours.

 

John

[bulldog_fan]

jwhitten

...And the best part is my  2-1/2 yo son is having a blast running the trains and "working on the layout" with me...  I can't wait for my other son to get old enough to help-- he's 9mo's now, but growing fast!

 

This is terrific.

I was going to chime in that one of the central elements for me is feeling a sense of connection to my grandfather.  He loved trains, and when I was a little kid he'd take me trainwatching now and then when we'd go to visit.  I had a few model trains as a teenager but they'd mostly sat in a box for the last few decades; I got re-interested about a year ago when something reminded me of some of the trains I'd watched all those years ago with my grandfather.  So far I haven't done much other than acquire a bunch of locomotives and cars, but the ones that resonate with me typically have some connection to some personal experience from the past.  I have an Empire Builder set because catching one rolling towards Chicago was the height of excitement with my grandfather all those years ago, I have Milwaukee Road E-units in Union Pacific colors because seeing an ad for one flashed me back thirty or forty years to watching those very trains pull in and out of Chicago-area stations, etc.

Whether or not your kids stick with model railroading as the years go by, I think you're building a great foundation of memories with them...and you never know when those will come back later in life and shape what they do as adults.  Good for you for paying attention and enjoying it now!

Dean

[MadSinger]

My explanation:

I am in love with rural Southwestern Wisconsin.  The land and the culture.  The region experienced a boom in the late 50', early 60's, and things were looking up.  I enjoy creating the atmosphere of this time, as it was a great time for the region and the country.  Both my parents grew up in this time period and location and can help me, since I did not personally experience it.

If that's not good enough for you, then you can discredit me as a Model Railroader.

Tyler

[pbjwilson]

I think my favorite part of the hobby is investigating how railroads worked 50, 60, 70 yrs ago. The history and the people of the past that ran the railroads. I've found its much more interesting to look at photos from the past and not model them exactly, but try to capture the feel and period of time thats represented. A good model railroad to me is one that gives a sense of time, place, history and looks as if it is a real working railroad. Searching the internet for info on coal mining for instance has tought me so much about how railroads and mining were intertwined.  

[selector]

jwhitten

selector

4. creating a believable and functioning whole that is greater than the sum of its parts (...sorry, many of you should have anticipated that statement. );-Crandell

 

 

 

I've seen pictures of your layout. You've definitely achieved creating a hole that's every bit the sum of its parts, with a reverse loop through it no less.... 

 (    )

 

John

Ha, you got me there, John.   I doubt I'll try that experiment again.  No great regrets, all things considered, but my druthers would be to have a walk-in.

-Crandell

[PASMITH]

Re: John Allen's last Layout? This is a hard question to answer. If you have read Linn Westcott's account of John Allen's life works, "Model Railroading with John Allen", one might conclude that he would have started a new one based on premise that he was not satisfied with his first and second layouts. ( This is assuming that he did not have the health issues that led to a premature death.) On the other hand, anyone who has read the book " The Black Swan" by Taleb might conclude that extrapolation of past data is quite dangerous. ( I say this only because this is " Philosophy" Friday.) Perhaps however John's, 'Black Swan still might have been a future fire anyway or, a floor collapse based on the factual exposures that John himself had created. However IMO if his last layout was not to be his final layout, his last layout as we know it would in fact, be his crowning achievement. In Linn's book, there are many hints that this would be the case. I dug out my manuscript and find it is too long to post but, I was surprised that my forum post conveyed some of the same ideas. PS: I am sorry that the MR Forum will not allow my Ibook Safari browser to separate paragraphs. Peter Smith, Memphis

[jwhitten]

selector

Sometimes philosophical responses can sound a little, or a lot, flip, as if the responder is arrogant or dismissive of the subject as somehow not worthy of any great effort to deal with.  So, I'll just list in point form, in no particular order, what I think are the essential elements of modelling a railroad:

1. successful illusions;

2. fidelity to the prototypes in dimensions and operations, and in appearances as well;

3. distraction from all of life's drains and troubles;

4. creating a believable and functioning whole that is greater than the sum of its parts (...sorry, many of you should have anticipated that statement. );

5. realistic operations, both in terms of revenue generation and in the way trains move (and sound);

6. patience;

7. resolve;

8. being receptive to new information;

9. teaching and sharing;

10. commiseration with others when we experience misfortune;

11. a hefty bank balance, or living within one's means...and all that this means;

12. the internet (yeah, I know, what did we do before we had it if it is so critical.  Well, for me, if no internet, not as many locomotives and other stuff, and no chance to interact with other MRR's.);

13. a good sized ego, or at least a healthy one;

14. a good memory;

15. a good set of resources, online or held privately (includes archived photos, anecdotal rememberances, historical documents, friends in the hobby);

16. a reasonable aptitude for manual skill acquisition.  (Many of us know very little about carpentry, track laying, soldering, electrical, layout planning, construction for basement or garage finishing/renovating, etc);

17. a supportive partner/spouse if sharing living space with another person; and

18. an ego that hasn't grown so large that it interferes in any way with any of the previous items listed.

-Crandell

 

 

 

I'd say that's a pretty good list. One of the things you mentioned that I don't think I've seen anybody else point out yet is the "human interaction" aspect. Even if its just interacting here on the forum. I think many people have the vision of Model Railroaders just being old guys or a little wacky guys (or maybe some of both) sitting in their basements playing with trains-- and completely overlook or never pick up on the "community" aspect. And especially, as you also pointed out, with the advent of the Internet which has permitted so many people to reach out and connect with other people and join the community at large.

 

John

[jwhitten]

selector

4. creating a believable and functioning whole that is greater than the sum of its parts (...sorry, many of you should have anticipated that statement. );-Crandell

 

 

 

I've seen pictures of your layout. You've definitely achieved creating a hole that's every bit the sum of its parts, with a reverse loop through it no less.... 

 (    )

 

John

[jwhitten]

howmus

For me?  I think the entire creative experience.  I spent most of my life as a musician, teaching, performing, composing, and arranging music.  

I guess that is why I model a fictional, freelanced RR.  While it is loosely based on the NYO&W and based in 1925, I can let my creative side run a bit free.  I do a lot of historical research (much as would writing an arrangement of a piece by some composer who lived centuries ago) to keep the style believable.  I also enjoy at times doing some completely whimsical, improbable, and completely unbelievable things like the pink elephant in the woods near the Moonshine Still.  Or even, The Bridge to Nowhere, NY:

 

 

That really is quite a drop-off at the end. Probably enough to get your attention at least...

Nice modeling too. I like the way you did your ivy (vines).

[jwhitten]

PASMITH

My vision is to create the essence of early 20th century west coast steam logging. THE most important element is time itself. On the back end of this vision, I had to finalize what my actual goals and visions were. This was a very long and evolving process and in my early teens, John Allen was my inspiration. Because of school, marriage, family, career, space and finances, It took me all the way to the early eighties to actual start building a layout. During this "Time" , I was mostly arm chairing, scratch building or bashing rolling stock and doing lots of research. My job with a large forest products company had me visiting our logging facilities from Washington to California where my vision was solidified and I built my first freelanced HOn 2-1/2 logging layout. After moving from the northeast to the south central part of the country, I became more interested in prototype railroad logging and operations and my current layout represents the 84 mile Klamath Falls branch of the SP somewhere between 1909 and 1911. Now I am spending 5 hours of research for every hour I spend constructing the layout and time once again is a big factor in trying to reach my vision. Time is also becoming a modeling element when I'm trying to pin down a period based on the locomotives and cars I want to model. Fortunately, my vision remains the same over time but, while we speak of philosophy, is time a sequence of events or is tomorrow a day that will never come?

 

Do you ever wonder where John Allen would be with his railroading if he were still alive (or had just lived longer) ?? Do you think the G&D was his crowning achievement or would he have ripped it down and started a new one (a la Allen McClelland or Tony Koester) ??

 

PASMITH

I once wrote an article called "Time Sharing" for MR but they rejected it as being too complicated. So much for philosophy. Peter Smith, Memphis

 

So post it here and let us decide! 

[jwhitten]

IRONROOSTER

The most important piece is that the trains move.  A model railroad is a miniature world of action.  Bringing lumber, track, engines, cars, wiring, control system together in a working railroad in miniature is the essence of model railroading. Scenery is the icing on the cake.

Enjoy

Paul

 

 

I hear ya. For me I'm kinda in the middle. I like the movement of the trains-- I've always enjoyed watching trains move, being a rail-fan. But I also like the idea of recreating somewhere particular, even if it only originally exists in my mind's eye. Now that I'm getting back into it, I really want to try my hand at operations. Running the trains with a purpose instead of just moving them around the track.