In HO, -- Can or does anyone utilize an actual hump yard type operation. Gravity assisted yard sorting? If yes do you have any pictures to post? am not sure if this is feasible in HO.
Thanks
Yes, it was done in the 80's or early 90's by a man named Larry Keeler, who built an operating hump yard on his layout. Larry was the one who developed and marked the CTC80 (I believe that was the name) in command control before the DCC craze wiped out the competition. I operated on that layout and it was a marvel. In fact, he could, when on tour, run trains by computer without human intervention.
Bob
I Thought it was Keller ? Of keller engineering CTC-16?
ridgemenIn HO, -- Can or does anyone utilize an actual hump yard type operation. Gravity assisted yard sorting? If yes do you have any pictures to post? am not sure if this is feasible in HO.
Its been done in HO several different ways. but it has a very high degree of difficulty. The key is making sure all the cars roll freely, well enough to get to the end of the class track. The next chore is slowing down the cars so they don't rocket out the other end or don't disassemble the couples and underframe of the cars when they couple at speed.
It basically has a low rate of return because in the smaller yards that modelers use, a flat switching yard is about as fast and takes up a much smaller area.
It is not a trivial excersize.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Ft4VdpFNs
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
If you have a slight down grade in your yard and use magnets to uncouple your cars you can "kick" cars as well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
As noted, having the cars roll at the correct speeds is the challenge, because the physics of the model are so much different than the real thing. As Dave H. said, there have only been a few successful implementations. Some of those used multiple air jets that could be used to slow down or speed up rolling cars as necessary.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
About 34 years ago I saw the hump yard built by the late Ed Ravenscroft. He could pre-program it to automatically handle a ten car cut while he went about other business.
Among other things, it required a paint spray compressor, solenoid air valves, quick-reset timer, multiple photoelectric detectors and a boxful of relays (all analog circuitry.) It was slow, and somewhat short of perfect in operation. All to classify ten cars at a time into four tracks...
Interestingly, he used the much-maligned X2F couplers. He had been NMRA President when that semi-successful attempt at standardization was going on, so he had an emotional stake in the things...
Chuc (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
well, i watched the video steemtrayn posted from youtube and even though i admire anyone who would do that much work to achieve a hump operation, i am not much impressed. the engine has to stop and give each car a kick and then they go into the bowl about 50 mph. it reminded me of the TRRA hump job at Madison going for an early quit. such is the physics of 87 to 1 scale.
i can kick most cars about 3 feet down each of my classification tracks with the lead and ladder on about a 3/4% grade. i admit there is a magnet just past each switch and the drill engine has to back up after letting each cut go. i tried putting a magnet on the lead but that never worked out to suit me and just trying to keep all these cars (450) free rolling calls for a full time car department.
yes i do tear up a draft gear now and then. that is why i don't use clone couplers.
i wound up sticking tiny bits of different color paper on the tack boards to indicate how well each car rolls. that way i don't waste my time trying to do something that won't work at all. when i come to one that acts like the hand brake is on, i just shove the track. visitors are sometimes impressed but they don't know the color coding trick so it looks like i am better at this than i really am.
grizlump
Wasn't there one on the original V&O?
I have been thinking about adding a pneumatic booster to gently blow not-so-free-rolling cars (I have a few) into the yard body tracks after making the cut at the ladder track magnet. Nothing like the Ravenscroft monster, though. I was thinking of a couple of nozzles and the little foot pump I usually use to pressurize air mattresses.
So, even though the full hump yard technology is probably a waste of space, one feature might be useful. Don't expect a quick report on feasability. I haven't even erected the benchwork that yard will be built on.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with flat-switched yards.
7j43kI think it was the November 1961 "Model Railroader" that had an article describing Ravenscroft's hump yard project. Talk's cheap, but it doesn't LOOK like a really horrible type project to do. To me. Ed
Ed
The 1961 description was of the hump yard built on the original Glencoe, Skokie Valley layout in Illinois. IIRC, it was a two-tracker.
The one I saw in 1975 was the new, improved (?) design Mr. Ravenscroft built on his post-retirement layout in Arizona. So, while talk may be cheap, the complication and bother of what I observed with my very own Mark 1 Mod 0 eyeballs would have been too much investment for too little return.
In fact, until I saw it in operation, glitches and all, I had been leaning toward including a hump yard in my layout plan. After that, no way.
Just my - other opinions may differ, but the facts stand.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with flat-switched yards)
ridgemen In HO, -- Can or does anyone utilize an actual hump yard type operation. Gravity assisted yard sorting? If yes do you have any pictures to post? am not sure if this is feasible in HO. Thanks
Here's the Pennsylvania Railroad brochure describing Conway Yard in near Pittsburgh PA. Its an enormous double-hump yard. There is an explanation of the mechanism near the center as well as a complete (mostly complete) yard diagram also. It is a very cool read!
PRR Conway Yard Brochure
jwhitten Wasn't there one on the original V&O?
No.
alco_fanjwhitten Wasn't there one on the original V&O? No.
Hmm... I have never seen the layout in person, and only have the book "The V&O Story" to draw from for information, "How the V&O Was Built: How It Is Operated", by W. Allen McClelland.
All of the track plans indicate that there is a hump yard at "Jimtown", and there are specific references to it in the accompanying text found on pages 32, 33, 65, 71, 96 (other minor references omitted).
Page 33 specifically references it:
"I've been asked if Jimtown was planned as a hump yard from the beginning. It was (I've always liked hump yards)"
Page 71 mentions it again in more detail:
"Q: What type of hump yard retarder system is planned for Jimtown?A: There will be dummy retarder castings for appearance, but the actual retarding will be done by manually-controlled air-jets-- an initial set at the first retarder, and a series of jets on each track for final speed control. The latter will be set at a constant airflow level and varied up and down only when needed for exceptionally fast- or slow-rolling cars."
"Q: What type of hump yard retarder system is planned for Jimtown?
A: There will be dummy retarder castings for appearance, but the actual retarding will be done by manually-controlled air-jets-- an initial set at the first retarder, and a series of jets on each track for final speed control. The latter will be set at a constant airflow level and varied up and down only when needed for exceptionally fast- or slow-rolling cars."
Page 96 says:
"The two remaining Fairbanks-Morse Train Masters are now working the hump yard at Jimtown."
As I indicated above, I've never seen the layout so the information in the book may be incorrect for all I know. (shrug)
John