Found this in my inbox last night:
http://www.mthtrains.com/content/80-2073-0
If you don't see anything special look closely, It's a DCC READY version of the MTH SD70ACe. Instead of having a MTH sound system standard, they equipped the unit to run on DC with an NMRA 8-Pin plug for DCC users to add their own decoder. I thought this was interesting because a major complaint against MTH is that they only offer their loco's with their sound system. Now they just have to do the same to their steam loco's...
maybe they figured out that "one size fits all" doesn't work,
Jamie
Cape Vincent Southern Railroad
HO scale Horseshoe Curve in 5’x10’
My YouTube
That's a positive development. I wonder if their DCS models continue to sell well in HO, considering high quality of their motor control and sounds in DCC mode.
Interesting but I wonder what that means. It shouldn't be for a sound decoder since they usually take more than the 8 pins. I wonder if they're going with a dual decoder option like BLI.
Springfield PA
Either way more looking forward to the Genesis ACe.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Darned! Now they will try to make DCC their intellectual property too...
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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RailfanS I thought this was interesting because a major complaint against MTH is that they only offer their loco's with their sound system.
Hey, they lost me when the boiler overhang on their 'non-articulated' 4-12-2 going around a corner was worse than the boiler overhang on my Akane Yellowstone articulated 2-8-8-4's on a 34" radius. I mean, Geez, at least blank some DRIVERS if you want to produce a non-articulated wheelbase that long for 24" minimum, guys!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
RailfanS If you don't see anything special look closely, It's a DCC READY version of the MTH SD70ACe. Instead of having a MTH sound system standard, they equipped the unit to run on DC with an NMRA 8-Pin plug for DCC users to add their own decoder. I thought this was interesting because a major complaint against MTH is that they only offer their loco's with their sound system. Now they just have to do the same to their steam loco's... maybe they figured out that "one size fits all" doesn't work, Jamie
They probably heard the requests for DC without the standard DCS installed, if they read their emails.
This should help their overall sales and the price is lower now without the installed sound. This way, the sound can be installed if it is wanted and the price is affordable.
CZ
They haven't listened to all of us. Instead of doing a steam locomotive a good number of us want (the Southern PS-4) they elected to do a Berkshire which I think P2K for the high end and Bachmann for us po folks covered the market. I can't see much room for improvement over the P2K Berk and the MTH is going for a healthy $450
Bdewoody They haven't listened to all of us. Instead of doing a steam locomotive a good number of us want (the Southern PS-4) they elected to do a Berkshire which I think P2K for the high end and Bachmann for us po folks covered the market. I can't see much room for improvement over the P2K Berk and the MTH is going for a healthy $450
Maybe you ought to try Athearn. They have a useable chassis in the upcoming re-release of the USRA light 4-6-2. They'd just need a bigger boiler and they could make the earlier Ps-4 version with the smaller tender. http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/462/sou1368washingon836.html
Andre
Well the real test will be to see what speed this thing runs at 12-13 volts. If goes prototype top speed, than maybe Mike has come to his senses or his bank account is hurting from not selling many HO locos with DCS.
One local dealer here says MTH is calling up dealers offering lower prices on HO stuff to get dealers to take some of it. This dealer has only sold one and the customer was not happy.
Seems to me that myself and others predicted failure for MTH and HO with DCS.
Sheldon
You are right about their choices of model locomotive, but at least someone could purchase that diesel without buying the DCS and DCC option combined. It seems everyone so far has made the Berkshire except Athearn, Atlas and Kato, but the Berkshire has been available from Rivarossi, P2K, Bachmann, Walthers which is P2K now and finally MTH. It has come full circle and the detail on the P2K puts all of the rest to shame.
It would be nice if some company actually made some of the models we keep asking for. We have asked for the NP Z8, the DM&IR M3 and the B&O EM1, but do they hear???? Sunset is bringing in the NP and SP&S Z6 soon in lower detail brass, but no die cast metal or plastic models are out there. I believe that a good large Challenger would sell very well. The D&RGW L105 model would be a good one also.
To give MTH little credit, they are making the little Joe and the previous Lionel Veranda Turbine. I have one of those Lionel models and they need some serious upgrades to the handriails and details. Looking at the pictures on the MTH web site, they did not upgrade this model. I also noticed they are releasing the PA series from the tooling they got via the lawsuit against the Korean builder.
Hi,
I am sure about only one thing, they have listened nothing about us.
As say in a answer in this post, I beleive is just a commercial deal.
Don't forget they try to use another standard far from the NMRA DCC ones.( Based on a Lenz/NMRA standard).
DCC whith some minor problems is a upgrading system, which will again comes whith future features, but the only full standard one since WWII.
We all need to preserve this standard.
I beleive nobody can imagine the trouble it will be if we lost this kind of standard for running our trains in any scale and in final the impact for the price of our models.
Marc
CAZEPHYR We have asked for the NP Z8, the DM&IR M3 and the B&O EM1, but do they hear????
We have asked for the NP Z8, the DM&IR M3 and the B&O EM1, but do they hear????
Ah the B&O EM1, beautiful engine, would love to see one by Broadway.
I also agree with Atlantic Central/Sheldon that Broadway Limited should make stealth versions of these beautiful locos, in my opinion, sound doesn't translate that well into HO, so I couldn't agree more with Sheldon in that area.
Broadway's locos are exquisitely detailed, and they could sell a whole lot more if they dropped the sound gimmick.
As much as I love DCC, there are several serious frustrations that come with it. My MRC Prodigy advanced has always been buggy, never behaves properly and you have to reset this, unplug that, all the time. A real hassle for the money.
The only really good thing MTH has is that their locos run beautifully in silent mode, no motor noise, no need to lube, never any squealing, and excellent slow speed performance.
Some of the detailing I have admitted myself is crude on their engines however, but they are getting better. I was happy with the detailing on the Empire State Express hudson, it surpassed even brass, not to mention these things runs 100 times better than brass and for 1/3 the price, but trying to program without DCS is why I sold mine.
This is a good move by MTH. People are already buying their engines and replacing the DCS decoders with true DCC. So, this allows them to lower their price point and be more competitive. By making it plug-compatable, they've signalled that they are giving up trying to force DCS on the HO market.
Going forward, I suspect they will eventually offer all of their engines without DCS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually offer true DCC as well. In the final analysis, it's still a consumer market. They have to make what the customer wants, and 95% of the HO market wants either DC or DCC.
I'm glad they finally woke up and smelled the creosote.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hamltnblue Interesting but I wonder what that means. It shouldn't be for a sound decoder since they usually take more than the 8 pins. I wonder if they're going with a dual decoder option like BLI.
Huh? QSI and Loksound decoders have 8 pin plugs on their decoders. That's all you need for track pickup, motor leads, front and rear lights, and function common. Optionally one more function. The 'other stuff' on sound decoders connects right to the decoder, like the speaker and keep-alive capacitor.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Texas Zepher RailfanS I thought this was interesting because a major complaint against MTH is that they only offer their loco's with their sound system. No this was a minor complaint, The major complaint is that they sue everyone for blinking wrong. Held DCC development in check for over three years claiming patents on things which were in common use for years. How will they ever "make up" for that? What about Lionel? What about other companies we don't know of that went under or were crippled directly or indirectly for years because of the legal manuring [sic]. Just say "no" to buying MTH.
Since BLI can't seem to get there act together, they are forcing me to go to MTH for what I want. I've been waiting for 3 years for them to deliver the Dreyfus Hudson they promised and all they can do is keep pushing back the delivery date. I'm tired of waiting for them and I'm buying the MTH Dreyfus. I'll also be getting the Empire State Express Hudson from them as well since that doesn't even seem to be on the drawing board for BLI.
I really don't care about the infighting that is going on between rival companies. The company that can deliver what I want at a price I am willing to pay will get my money.
jecorbettI really don't care about the infighting that is going on between rival companies. The company that can deliver what I want at a price I am willing to pay will get my money.
Fair enough, I'm free market guy. MTH has yet to make anytihng that works on my control system (good old fashioned 12 volt DC), nor have they made a model that fits my layout scheme/neds/wants.
So even if they start offering DC models that actually run on 12 volts, none of their current models will be on my shopping list.
Still tired of seeing the same old locos done over and over by different companies.
As for BLI, they are adrift with too little working capital and no clear direction on what to make for who.
I have one SD70M2,It runs great on DC,And better than the Atlas sound 8-40-CW.
Russell
RailfanS Found this in my inbox last night: http://www.mthtrains.com/content/80-2073-0 If you don't see anything special look closely, It's a DCC READY version of the MTH SD70ACe. Instead of having a MTH sound system standard, they equipped the unit to run on DC with an NMRA 8-Pin plug for DCC users to add their own decoder. I thought this was interesting because a major complaint against MTH is that they only offer their loco's with their sound system. Now they just have to do the same to their steam loco's... maybe they figured out that "one size fits all" doesn't work, Jamie
I see it as it truly is..Competition sets the way things go.
Athearn's forth coming SD70ACe may have 'em concerned since the diesel gurus found detail faults on MTH's SD70ACe.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Still tired of seeing the same old locos done over and over by different companies. Sheldon
Sheldon--
I can understand your position; it's a familiar one. However, MTH has actually brought some items to market I never thought I'd see outside of brass--including the UP 4-12-2.
I was actually one of the detractors who complained about the boiler overhang when it was first announced--and even said on another forum I'd never own one.
However, after initial negative comments, MTH listened to the feedback in the press and/or on various forums and made it possible to fix the mechanism such that those who have big curves can run it!
Others complained about marker lights being a shade low on the smokebox (so that they could be lit by LED's). MTH revised the air pump locations and perhaps minimally raised the marker lights--and thoughtfully provided a separate set of plastic marker lights for those who had to have them in the correct prototypical position.
MTH listening is nothing new--the would-be HO buyers have been too busy bashing MTH to see (until yesterday) they've been making honest attempts to satisfy as many as possible by making changes even after their pilot models were shown.
After experiencing some QA/QC issues with competitors' steam power, I gave MTH a shot--and even ended up buying two of the 4-12-2's. Plus--I can respect their design decision not to have excessive lateral motion in the mechanism to go around tight curves because I have experienced locomotive failures with other steamers that had excessive lateral motion such that lightweight valve gear was all too easily damaged (which ruined the model--though repaired, it never ran the same). My 4-12-2's are easily among the best running HO steam engines I've ever owned or seen.
If others don't like MTH engines for whatever reason, that will just leave more for me to buy. I'll gladly buy another MTH 4-12-2 when I have the money, because who knows when BLI will get theirs out. (I do have a BLI one ordered).
Respectfully submitted--
John
csxns I have one SD70M2,It runs great on DC,And better than the Atlas sound 8-40-CW.
And how many volts are you blasting it with? If the SD70 runs at any reasonable speed on 12 volts, its a first for MTH. HO trains have aways run on 12-14 volts, not the 18 or more that MTH locos require on DC.
I'm not risking my other equipment or have any "special" power supplies for one group of locos.
jecorbett Since BLI can't seem to get there act together, they are forcing me to go to MTH for what I want. I've been waiting for 3 years for them to deliver the Dreyfus Hudson they promised and all they can do is keep pushing back the delivery date. I'm tired of waiting for them and I'm buying the MTH Dreyfus. I'll also be getting the Empire State Express Hudson from them as well since that doesn't even seem to be on the drawing board for BLI. I really don't care about the infighting that is going on between rival companies. The company that can deliver what I want at a price I am willing to pay will get my money.
Competition is good for our hobby. No one company can bring in everything that we are asking for especially when it comes to passenger trains. Up until BLI introduced the first Zephyr train, most complete passenger trains had to be purchased in brass.
MTH bringing in the NYC cars is good for the hobby industry and they will probably sell many sets of those. I am waiting for the N&W cars but they will be used behind one of the my J's built by BLI.
Lets hope the complete train passenger sets continue to be available and we have choices of our purchases. The new Union Pacific train is the most recent train from Walthers as they continue to bring in later streamliners for us.
MTH engines do not require 18 volts to run in DC mode.
They will easily exceed 80 smph in plain DC at 16 volts, and start moving somewhere around 9 volts +/-.
(With DCS they ONLY receive 12 volts.)
Many Athearn (and other) engines, especially those with sound--require 14 volts or 16 volts to run in DC mode. I've owned plenty of Athearn Genesis, BLI, P2K, Atlas engines that needed more than 12 volts to run 60 mph if they had sound.
Fact: According the RPN review of the Athearn Big Boy, in DC mode it will do 80.6 smph at 16 volts. It quite obviously is not designed to be limited to 12 or 14 volts.
UP 4-12-2,
No offense to you, but I have no interest in a UP anything, let alone a 4-12-2, even with my 36" plus radius curves.
Nor do I want a triplex, I have no interest in failures. Sure some of what they have done/will do soon is new, but much is just more of the same. allready done more than well enough by several others.
And, to be quite candid, I have no interst in working markers, or such nit picking as them being an inch or two higher or lower.
Not to mention my lack of interest in sound, smoke, ugly DCS controlled couplers, station announcements and the rest of the toy train craze.
What the MODELING HOBBY needs is locos like we were talking about on that other thread.
And for manufacturers to stop tieing up their capital in tooling for the same six models.
Mike Wolf does not undrstand modeling, maybe he is now accepting that and listening to someone who does. It would have been real simple for him to listen to some modelers in the first place, rather than think he could "recreate" O gauge in HO.
I was giving an example of MTH listening to "the customer" and incorporating changes that other more anal modelers desired. The final model is definitely improved as a result.
You don't have to be interested in anything UP. What railroad you model is your business.
The reason the manufacturers keep cranking out Berkshires is that purely and simply they SELL.
Certain engines have been nearly deified by the railroad press through the years--and the Berkshire is one of them. I no longer feel the need to own a NKP Berk--but I have owned them in the past--as have many others.
Other engines do not get produced because there is a more limited market for them. If a manufacturer can make a "sure thing" that they know will sell, they are much more likely to shell out the cash, even if the competition has already done it.
I don't like it either, but it's just a fact of the model railroad business. I'm looking forward to the next run of Athearn Big Boys--I just may need one!
UP 4-12-2 Sheldon-- MTH engines do not require 18 volts to run in DC mode. They will easily exceed 80 smph in plain DC at 16 volts, and start moving somewhere around 9 volts +/-. (With DCS they ONLY receive 12 volts.) Many Athearn (and other) engines, especially those with sound--require 14 volts or 16 volts to run in DC mode. I've owned plenty of Athearn Genesis, BLI, P2K, Atlas engines that needed more than 12 volts to run 60 mph if they had sound. Fact: According the RPN review of the Athearn Big Boy, in DC mode it will do 80.6 smph at 16 volts. It quite obviously is not designed to be limited to 12 volts. Respectfully submitted-- John
Fact: According the RPN review of the Athearn Big Boy, in DC mode it will do 80.6 smph at 16 volts. It quite obviously is not designed to be limited to 12 volts.
16, 18 makes no difference. It's still way above the long established 12-14 volts that everyone else has used for 50-70 years.
I use 13.8 volt regulated power supplies to feed my Aristo Train Engneer wireless throttles.
ALL 100 plus of my locos from Proto, Athearn, BLI/PCM, Intermountain, Mantua, IHC, Bachmann, United, other old brass, etc, etc, etc, all run at or above their prototype top speeds on the 13.5 load voltage at my rails. Try that with an MTH K4. No such luck.
A sound decoder can use an eight-pin plug. A hardwire type sound decoder usually has nine wires sticking out of it, but two of those are for the speaker.
BTW, jecorbett, the MTH streamlined Hudsons I've seen in their pics have the tender stripe way too high. I don't know if this is to match their passenger cars (which I presume like most model passenger cars, sit too high up on their trucks) or what, but it sure doesn't look right to me.
You're singling out the first MTH HO steamer, which performed notably worse than the more recent ones in DC mode as being representative of all. Even with the K-4's, my dealer says they released an upgraded version that sucks less voltage, etc.
Try a new MTH engine on a real layout before you bash them.
I can run Atlas, Athearn, anything with the same MRC 6200 power supply--and they all run just fine. The voltage is just a number. So what.