--Zak Gardner
My Layout Blog: http://mrl369dude.blogspot.com
http://zgardner18.rrpicturearchives.net
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Having looked at the photos in question, I fail to see a problem. I saw no claim of ownership.
The thread was "Weekend Photo Fun," not an entry into a modeling contest.
Frankly, I've come to understand, personally, there are some in this hobby that are anal beyond all reason. I do not believe the sun rises and sets on model railroading nor is it my only salvation. Further, if some would come up out of the cellar occasionally, there's a far larger world to be enjoyed.
Like other hobby endeavors, when it becomes problematical it gets put aside to be picked up again later... maybe.
I think that, as stated, your conduct hasn't been unreasonable and that your efforts here deserve respect.
I don't think that.it is appropriate or that you want any comment on the other party's behaviour.
Stick with the hobby in good company and remember the "Model Railroads are Fun"
maybe your best off not talking to a guy that gets that offended over something like that
You've always seemed like a pretty decent guy to me.
People make mistakes/goofs/omissions/etc...stuff happens. Sounds like you've tried to make it right. That's all you can do. If this guy wants to act like a middle-schooler, that's his problem...nothing you can do about that.
Some people just need to grow up.
~ Jason
Funny thing is I didn't see one post after yours that even mentioned yours no offense meant, that being said one could post and equal argument on your behalf that your locomotive both fine examples of modeling and I'm not a diesel fan enhanced his layout as his scenery etc. enhanced your engines.
Just sounds like petty jealousy to me, if he was so concerned why didn't he post pictures of his layout on the same thread? There are more tactful ways of dealing with a situation then banning you from his layout. A friend like that isn't worth having.
In my business, I have to give credit for work I use that isn't my own. I carry that over to the hobby, always careful to give credit to the two people who fiddle with my images and improve them.
It would be my practise, therefore, to say that my nice new XYZ engine is shown on Billy Smith's layout, a friend of mine. That way, if people even thought, but as lurkers didn't post, that the scenery was exceptional, they would know it isn't my layout, but that a friend had hosted me, so that I could take realistic photos and post them to WPF...a favour between friends.
Once the friend had mentioned to me that he was disappointed I hadn't given him credit for the layout on which the trains were imaged, I would be quick to make a public statement to restore the harmony that I had enjoyed to that point. Zak didn't do that, and left the images to be archived without change or comment as the thread was archived. So, I find it quite understandable that the friend is miffed that, once apprised of his feelings over the matter, Zak did nothing. Hard to maintain a friendship when one side expresses his feelings honestly, and the other makes no overt effort to undo the damage.
Just my two cents.
That said, Zak is now atoning for his misstep, and doing it publicly, It is the cost of regaining some trust and good will if this friend and what he brought to Zak's enjoyment of the hobby is important to Zak. And even if the person doesn't budge, Zak can still hold his head up, knowing that he has set the record straight, and he can move on.
-Crandell
Bill H. Having looked at the photos in question, I fail to see a problem. I saw no claim of ownership.The thread was "Weekend Photo Fun," not an entry into a modeling contest.Frankly, I've come to understand, personally, there are some in this hobby that are anal beyond all reason. I do not believe the sun rises and sets on model railroading nor is it my only salvation. Further, if some would come up out of the cellar occasionally, there's a far larger world to be enjoyed.Like other hobby endeavors, when it becomes problematical it gets put aside to be picked up again later... maybe.
Bill Tidler Jr.
Near a cornfield in Indiana...
I was going to say that I didn't think it was an issue as there was no direct claim of ownership. However, after looking through the original post, I see a lot of 'indirect' (or implied) ownership of the layout. Compounding this was a lack of action to properly credit the work - particularly after the owner (who graciously hosted and allowed pictures of his layout) requested that it be cleared up.
selectorIt would be my practise, therefore, to say that my nice new XYZ engine is shown on Billy Smith's layout, a friend of mine. That way, if people even thought, but as lurkers didn't post, that the scenery was exceptional, they would know it isn't my layout, but that a friend had hosted me, so that I could take realistic photos and post them to WPF...a favour between friends.-Crandell
I agree with this practice. A simple line like "I was operating this on my friend's layout..." would have probably avoided this trouble.
Tough lesson Zak. I hope you are able to work things out with Tim.
MAbruceI agree with this practice. A simple line like "I was operating this on my friend's layout..." would have probably avoided this trouble.Tough lesson Zak. I hope you are able to work things out with Tim.
I emphatically disagree with your statement. There is no lesson to be learned here. Except for the fact that some men still act like childish prudes, and I don't mean Zgardner18.
Good Lord, so he posted a picture with his engine on a friends layout. Its not like he posted 20 threads pretending to own this layout. Good Grief
I have had others take photos of their diesels on my Santa Fe and have never expected any credit for providing the location. Sometimes it is given by the person taking the photo, sometimes not. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me either way. But having met some guys in the hobby who are really "full of themselves" I can understand it happening. You have taken the high road, if the other party continues on the lowroad, not much you can do in additon to your appology, so personally I would write him off and move on.
Bob
Your decision to post your apology is appropriate. People taking sides in the conflict is not.
I hope your friend forgives you. Grudges are harmful to all involved.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Although I'm more interested in the trains themselves than the scenery, if it were my layout, I would agree with Pastor Bob's post...and I wouldn't care if I got photo credit or not.
Hopefully someday my layout might be worthy of a few magazine photos--but then, if I let my kids help me finish the scenery, perhaps not--but hopefully they'll be closer to me.
Either way I think the other individual needs to "lighten up" a bit.
As the OP mentioned, he previously apologized to his friend, but then simply forgot to edit the posted material. This seems like a simple honest mistake to me.
It is my belief that a friend worth having should've accepted the original apology and not subsequently stewed on the issue for several months--or at the very least asked at that time of the apology that the post be modified to give credit to his layout--and not waited for months to then trash a friendship.
Too many people associated with this hobby are too full of themselves, and life is just too short for that kind of stuff.
I speak from the unfortunate experience of also having made and lost many would be "friends" in this hobby when in fact our only "friendship" was the trains themselves. Subsequent events and years proved they were never really my friends--as blowing off attending my wedding, when we had good food ordered for them etc.--should have been the very first clue. Some of my would be "friends" have since committed felonies and served jail time--so sometimes we really don't know who our train "friends" really are till much later.
I met most of my alleged "friends" more than 18 years ago when working for a fine train store--but you only see one side of their lives there.
I'm also not implying that the other party in this dispute is going to become a criminal--so don't make that mental leap--LOL.
John
Classy move!
I read the post and saw nothing that should have motivated a friend to throw a hissy fit over it but your friend did anyway.
I don't get the sense that your friend ever told you specifically that he wanted you to remove the images or that he wanted to be credited. From your description he told you he was dissappointed and you apologized and that was that,or so you thought.
Then, from that point on your friend stopped acknowledging your email, until 6 months later when he told you, "you're not my friend anymore!"
I think he over reacted but that's not the important thing. What is important is that your friend burned the bridge between himself and you with hardly a moments thought...
That does not sound like much of a friend.
Life is too short to let something so petty ruin a friendship. If your friend realizes this and comes around he's a decent friend, IMO. If he doesn't, then you haven't really lost much at all.
Don't beat yourself up over this. We all make misteaks mistakes. Sometimes, people that are hurt need to learn how to accept an apology. You've already gone above and beyond the call on this. The whole thing has made you a better person, certainly in my eyes, anyway.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
On a different message board there was a thread about engine servicing facilities, I posted pictures of mine under construction and a few of Howard Zane's on his Piermont Division Stevie Wonder could have seen that there was no way the pics were of the same layout and I even titled it this is my engine facility and this is how my engine facility SHOULD look. I added comments on how the builder used old pieces of locomotives and wheel set etc. etc. to enhance the scene with junk. Well there was one member who had to throw in his two cents because he nothing constructive to contribute had to chime in and say I was being "Plageristic" (no such word by the way) because he knew from looking at the book that it was Howard Zane's layout. I said show me where I said it was mine first of all and secondly show me that exact picture in the book, you can't because I took it. So I guess if someone wants to split hairs yes you should run the credit section at the bottom of each post. Seemed to only bother this guy and no one else, Even if Howard read this poo dunk little message board it was on I don't even thik he would have given a hoot. Only a pathetic fool takes credit for someone else's work and claims it as his own but this is clearly not the case. It's called manning up as this poster clearly did.
DrilineMAbruceI agree with this practice. A simple line like "I was operating this on my friend's layout..." would have probably avoided this trouble.Tough lesson Zak. I hope you are able to work things out with Tim. I emphatically disagree with your statement. There is no lesson to be learned here. Except for the fact that some men still act like childish prudes, and I don't mean Zgardner18.
Really, no lesson to be learned?
How about this one: Perhaps public apologies for something that was not even noticed by the forum majority can backfire. Now ‘Tim’ has been labeled a ‘childish prude’, "anal', a 'middle-schooler', 'petty ', among other things. Can’t imagine Tim is too happy about that. I wonder how that makes him feel about this ‘apology’?
unbelievable
N Scale Diesels......I like 'em
It takes a lot of guts to publicly admit a mistake, which you have done with your post. But I sincerely doubt that you will win your "friend" back, because he has never been your friend. Who needs enemies if you have friends like this?
The guy made an elephant out of a mosquito and does not deserve your friendship. In the good old days we settled such issues among ourselves, you get what I mean ....
For Gods sake Ulrich, don´t mention the war!
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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Graffen, OMG you just made soda shoot out of my nose I laughed so hard. I think you've got the ultimate handle on this one, EVERYBODY LIGHTEN UP! There's an earthquake in Haiti. This is no big deal.
Lou
Mistakes happen and no one is perfect, by apologizing your the bigger person. Its a shame some one will let something so small rub them the wrong way but sadly those kind of people exist, perhaps your friend should make a thread with his own photos if he's so bent out of shape and wants to have recognition.
Everyone,
Zak has made his apology publicly on the forum. Let's let it remain at that without further need to comment on it.
Let's also hope that Zak's friend, Tim, can move past this incident and find room in his heart for restoration. Thanks for your understanding.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.