I have decided to take some photo's of my procedure on how I am repainting a Sunset brass CB&Q 4-6-4. I hesitate to call it a tutorial since my ways may not be the best.
A little background on the engine. This loco is owned by my Dad and I originaly painted it about 8 years ago. Although I had painted a bunch of plastic desiels by that time, I had never painted a steam engine before. The paint job turned out okay as far as quality, but I was never happy with the colors I used for the graphite or the red cab roof. So when I was over there for Christmas I decided to take it home with me and give it a proper paint job, as well as back date it to the early 40's since thats the era he wants it to represent.
Unfortunatly I didn't take any photo's before I striped the model, but here it is after a soak in laquer thinner. Since the paint on the chassis from my previous paint job is still in good shape, I will only be painting the boiler and tender shell. These two photo's also show where the few modifications will be taking place. To back date this engine to the early 40's the large train control box between the steam and sand dome needs to go, as well as the second steam generator used to power it. Also note the lack of bell and whistle cords.
Here the control box, generator, and associated conduit have been removed. I soldered in short bits of brass rod into the mounting holes and filed them flush with the boiler. I have also relocated the whistle to it's proper location and strung bell and whistle cords. The rod to the whistle is .015 brass wire and the bell "rope" is a single strand pulled from some small gauge electrical wire. I also had to resolder a handful of loose solder joint. The only other thing I added was the conduit running to the headlight. I opted not to add the conduit to the class lights since that kind of stuff just gets lost to my Dad. There are a few details that don't exactly match the prototype engine I'm going to number it for, such as the bump in the handrails over the sander valves for instance. If this were my engine I would probably correct them, but again they would just get lost on my Dad, so I left everything else as is.
The CB&Q rebuilt a handful of their S4 hudsons with light weight roller bearing rods and re-classed them S4A's. The Sunset model came with a set of rods to model this re-built class if you so choose. I was too leary to attempt this swap when I first painted this thing, but this kind of stuff comes easy to me now-a-days. I had to comletely tear down the valve gear in order to strip the black paint off of all it's associated rod and links since engine 4002 had polished rods. (A rarity on the CB&Q so it's something I've never gotten to model before). I hit a slight hitch when I realized Samhongsa decided it would be a good idea to solder the ecentric cranks to the crank pins (in the wrong position no less) instead of useing the customary set screw, so it took a little longer than expected to complete the swap. I think I will give the rods a shot of flat or satin finish to tone them down a bit.
I would normaly replace those brass U-joints with some plastic ones from NWSL, but this thing runs so smooth I'm not going to mess with it.
More to come....
John.
John,
your photos impressively show, why nothing beats brass in terms of detail. I am really eager to read more on this project
Here's where I'm at tonight. I'm useing Pollyscale paint again. The "graphite" color is a mix of bright silver and engine black with a touch of "dirt". I normaly use Pollyscale "zinc chromate" primer for the red roof's on my CB&Q loco's but I was out, so I mixed something close useing what I had on hand. I paint with an Iwata Eclipes air brush at 20 PSI. I mix my Polly Scale with about 15% distilled water. I shot the graphite first and the red second, useing a piece of masking tape lighty pressed to the running boards to protect the fire box from overspray. Since you get very little overspray at 20 PSI, I left smoke box unprotected. Three light coats was enough for both colors.
I'm sure some of you are wondering where the primer is, but I have found Polly Scale sticks very well without it. So well in fact an alcohol bath wouldn't strip the first paint job. I had to resort to laquer thinner. I should have time tomorrow to mask this thing and get a coat of black on it.
Sir Madog John, your photos impressively show, why nothing beats brass in terms of detail. I am really eager to read more on this project
It really is a very well done model, especially when you consider it was imported in the early 80's. It holds up very well when compared to prototype pictures as well.
I'm looking forward to see this project progress. I have a Sunset 4-6-4 Hudson also. It needs to be striped and repainted. One note, I thought these models were produced in 1977, not the early '80s. I'll agree though that they run very smoothly.
John:
That Hudson is a real beauty! I've always thought that the "Q" had some extremely handsome steamers.
Looking forward to further installments as you continue. I like that graphite color a lot--looks like the same mixture I use for my Rio Grande steamers. Bright silver and engine black.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Silver Pilot I'm looking forward to see this project progress. I have a Sunset 4-6-4 Hudson also. It needs to be striped and repainted. One note, I thought these models were produced in 1977, not the early '80s. I'll agree though that they run very smoothly.
According to brassguide.com they were imported in 1980. They may be wrong though.
twhite John: That Hudson is a real beauty! I've always thought that the "Q" had some extremely handsome steamers. Looking forward to further installments as you continue. I like that graphite color a lot--looks like the same mixture I use for my Rio Grande steamers. Bright silver and engine black. Tom
The right color to use for graphite seems to be a topic very few agree on. I've heard everything from nearly black to medium gray. From the handful of color pictures I've seen of "non excursion" Q steam, I feel my color is preaty close to what the Q used. A little weathering with the air brush and chalk will enhance it a bit.
I think there were as many shades of graphite as their were railroads that used it, LOL! I know that Rio Grande used a somewhat lighter shade at times--everything from a silvery gray to actual silver. SP used a darker gray that contrasted with their white/silver smokebox fronts.
I often wonder if it was the 'time period' so to speak, or actually what mixture was currently available at any given time when the locos were in for shopping.
I was doing some research on the SP 2-10-2 and ran across one that looked to be recently "shopped" and in the photo the smoke box sure looked like silver the same as smoke box front. The others appear to be variations of graphite as mentioned.
Next came what I consider to be the most tedious part of painting a steam engine, masking the roof, smoke and fire box. Taking yor time here will payoff later with a nicer paint job. It took me around two hours to mask this engine. I lay my masking tape onto a piece of glass and cut it with a X-acto knife and straight edge. I burnsh all thee dges with a tooth pick. I find it easier to just mask over certin piping and other little details on the smoke and fire boxes and just brush paint them later. Trying to mask around things like boiler steps and handrail posts is far too time consuming and opens up to many areas for paint to bleed onto the color your trying to mask. Besides, with a steady hand, nobody will know that it was brush painted. The ash pans on this model are attached with a couple screws, so I removed them to make masking the firebox a little easier. These will be painted seperately. I also removed the smokebox front for this step since it wont be getting any airbrushing.
Again, I will be useing Polly Scale paint. I'm useing a roughly 50/50 mix of engine black and steam power black. This creates an ever so slight grayish hue to the black, which I feel helps bring out more detail in a layout enviroment. Don't think first run BLI Santa Fe 4-8-4's here. It's nowhere near that gray.
I hold the engine and tender shells with an empty paper towel tube while painting. It gives just enough tention to hold the shells without spreading them. (more of a problem with plastic than brass) I'm not going to go into much depth of my paintig technique here. If anyone has any questions just ask.
Here it is with the masking removed. I'm happy with the outcome. There is virtualy no touch up needed. I'm useing a new digital camera I recieved for Christmas and its acting weird when trying to take pictures of a black object on a white background, so bear with me.
I probably should have tried to mask around te running board suport brackets. Oh well, guess I brush paint them.
Here you can see where I found it easier to just tape over some of the pipeing. I'll come back later with a brush and paint them black. Also note the chip on the wind deflector . A little touch up with a brush will hide that.
Quiet a bit of brush painting to do up here. Pretty much everything attached to the smoke box and smoke box front, including the Elesco feedwater heater, will be getting a coat of black with the brush.
The tender shell was also painted at this time, but I didn't take any pictures of it.
Next step after brush painting the various detail parts will be a shot of gloss for the decals. Decaling straight over the Polly Scale is possible, but I've gotten mixed results with it, so I just take the extra step now so there won't be any problems with the decals silvering later.
Last ones for tonight. The hand painting has been done, and the engine and tender have been gloss coated. I used Polly Scale clear gloss straihgt from the bottle. No thinner! I hope to have it decaled by tomorrow night.
Stay tuned.......
Not too shabby not too shabby at all, seriously very nice work too bad the pics probably don't do it justice and a before pic would have only added to show your nice work
Makes me want to put a brass loco on my "Me wants" list. Unfortunately, my funds are not suffient.
Nice work - that does not do justice to the super job you are doing! Can hardly wait for the next pics.
Here's the finished product. The decals are from Micro Scale. I had a heck of a time getting the large heralds on the tender to settle over the rivets. Being that it is a three color decal, it was quite thick and took a bunch of coats of Micro Sol before I was happy with it. It probably didn't help that the decals are a couple years old now. After the decals were dry I gave the entire engine and tender a coat of Polly Scale semi gloss, followed by a flat finish on the graphite and roof surfaces. I wanted to keep this engine clean since it will be pulling the RR's premeire passenger train the "Exposition Flyer", so I kept the weathering to a minimum. A little soot around the stack and cab roof as well as a light coating of dust on the running gear rounded out the weathering. The cab windows are glazed with clear styrene and the lenses in the marker lights are made with Crystal Clear.
Now all that's left is to give it back to my Dad.
John
Outstanding!
Very nice job' like you I've taken to painting the insides of the bells on my steamers red also.
Afew years back I painted a 05A for my son.....sorry to say I only took one picture of it and that with my older 35mm film camera and the print besides being slightly out of focus has developed a few scratch's over the past few years lol.
John .... That is very good of you to share how you painted the 4-6-4. The prototype was a great locomotive, and your model certainly looks real.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
That's one BEAUTIFUL job on a BEAUTIFUL locomotive. If I were your dad, I'd be drooling helplessly.
I'm really glad you documented this for us--I just recieved a new consignment brass loco from Caboose Hobbies in Denver that runs like a little jewel--UNFORTUNATELY, whoever owned it before me evidently painted it from about 3 inches with what looks like to be Krylon black house paint, LOL! So I've got a project similar to yours in front of me--stripping, masking, re-painting--the whole bit.
I hope mine turns out half as well as yours.
Again--BEAUTIFUL job!
Why couldn't I have a son like you....
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Thanks! Yours looks good as well!
I don't know if they painted all the bells red or not, but I saw a color picture of a Hudson with this treatment and thought it was a nice touch.
I've got one of those Custom Finishing O5A's as well. It's sitting in my display case waiting for paint job. I want to re-work a few details on it first.
CB&Q Modeler Very nice job' like you I've taken to painting the insides of the bells on my steamers red also. Afew years back I painted a 05A for my son.....sorry to say I only took one picture of it and that with my older 35mm film camera and the print besides being slightly out of focus has developed a few scratch's over the past few years lol.
twhite John: That's one BEAUTIFUL job on a BEAUTIFUL locomotive. If I were your dad, I'd be drooling helplessly. I'm really glad you documented this for us--I just recieved a new consignment brass loco from Caboose Hobbies in Denver that runs like a little jewel--UNFORTUNATELY, whoever owned it before me evidently painted it from about 3 inches with what looks like to be Krylon black house paint, LOL! So I've got a project similar to yours in front of me--stripping, masking, re-painting--the whole bit. I hope mine turns out half as well as yours. Again--BEAUTIFUL job! Tom
Thanks for the kind words Tom.
I hope you have better luck stripping your engine than I did with one of mine. I got a CB&Q O1A 2-8-2 off of Ebay a few year ago that was painted with a thick coat of spray paint. Nothing would strip it. After many attempts I ended up trying some boat gel coat stripper I found at Menards. This stuff would strip the paint, but ended up loosening pretty much every solder joint. I basicaly ended up with a kit. I ended up useing the chassis and scratchbuilt a CB&Q O2A out of it.
I sympathize with your "funds" problem. You might think about going to a train show and looking for an older brass piece that has been abused and/or neglected and is missing its box. you can do some repairs and clean it up and you'll have a suitable loco to practice painting on. The price should be considerably less than the new plastic engines that are coming out with all the bells and whistles.