fwright nice engine service scene. You probably took this into account, but many others may not realize that the primary fuel oil used in steam engines was the thick-as-molasses Bunker 6 stuff left over from producing gasoline and lighter stuff at the refineries. In all but the warmest climates, heat would be needed to get the stuff to flow at a reasonable rate.
nice engine service scene. You probably took this into account, but many others may not realize that the primary fuel oil used in steam engines was the thick-as-molasses Bunker 6 stuff left over from producing gasoline and lighter stuff at the refineries. In all but the warmest climates, heat would be needed to get the stuff to flow at a reasonable rate.
You're right, Fred. To correct this, I'd place a boiler facility in one of the two garage stalls located behind the warehouse, add a smoke stack there, and piping to the tank site to carry steam heat to the storage tank and to any tank car delivering the heavy fuel. Or simpler yet, assume there is a small boiler in the sand house and run piping from there.
By the way, the one time (2002) I was present when an oil-fired locomotive was refueled, recycled engine oil was the fuel being loaded.
Mark
markpierceWell, not quite bare bones, my engine service semi-diorama includes fuel oil from raised tank for steam locomotives, gasoline or diesel fuel from a half-buried tank, a primitive sanding facility, a small warehouse, and out-of-the-picture to the right, a small rectangular water tower. Mark
Well, not quite bare bones, my engine service semi-diorama includes fuel oil from raised tank for steam locomotives, gasoline or diesel fuel from a half-buried tank, a primitive sanding facility, a small warehouse, and out-of-the-picture to the right, a small rectangular water tower.
Very, very nice engine service scene. You probably took this into account, but many others may not realize that the primary fuel oil used in steam engines was the thick-as-molasses Bunker 6 stuff left over from producing gasoline and lighter stuff at the refineries. In all but the warmest climates, heat would be needed to get the stuff to flow at a reasonable rate.
just my thoughts
Fred W
This water tank represented the entire engine service facility on SP's 30-mile-long San Ramon Branch. Oh, and once the branchline was dieselized, the tank was taken down. That can be an advantage in modeling a branchline: engine service facilities aren't necessarily required to be prototypical. Can't get much more bare bones than that, no?
Branchline locomotives were serviced and originated in Oakland and Port Costa.
(Besides the tank, the tracks, combination depot, and the wood-framed, metal-sheathed feed-mill/building-material structure in the background are long gone. In the 1960s I bought a sack of plaster for my layout's scenery from that background building. The location is now an "auto row." That surely increased the town's sales tax revenue.)
SperandeoHere's what I recall of "bare-bones" engine servicing on a Louisiana sugar-cane railroad. The engine being serviced was a narrow gauge 0-6-2T built by the H.K. Porter works in New Jersey.• Coal – hand-shoveled onto the engine from an elevated stage about the same height as the cab deck. The fireman or hostler doing the servicing set the larger lumps on top of the water tank that surrounded the coal bunker so he could break them up with a ball-peen hammer. I don't remember where the coal came from, but the sugar mill shipped its product on the Missouri Pacific, so a standard gauge railroad wasn't far away.• Water – came from a sort of a standpipe, but not one of the big 10-inch columns you'd expect to see on a mainline railroad. This was a 2-inch pipe at most, and it was strapped to a wooden post for stability. There wasn't a water tank especially for the railroad, but the nearby sugar mill had a big elevated tank.• Sand – carried onto the engine in about a five-gallon pail, probably not completely full. The fireman/hostler leaned a ladder against the boiler so he could climb to the sandbox more easily. The sand was stored in bags in a wooden shack.• Ashes (yes, you have to get rid of them) – dumped between the rails, not into a pit but onto sheets of iron that protected the ties from charring or worse. I don't remember how they disposed of the ashes, but there were shovels and wheelbarrows in the vicinity.So long,Andy
Here's what I recall of "bare-bones" engine servicing on a Louisiana sugar-cane railroad. The engine being serviced was a narrow gauge 0-6-2T built by the H.K. Porter works in New Jersey.
• Coal – hand-shoveled onto the engine from an elevated stage about the same height as the cab deck. The fireman or hostler doing the servicing set the larger lumps on top of the water tank that surrounded the coal bunker so he could break them up with a ball-peen hammer. I don't remember where the coal came from, but the sugar mill shipped its product on the Missouri Pacific, so a standard gauge railroad wasn't far away.
• Water – came from a sort of a standpipe, but not one of the big 10-inch columns you'd expect to see on a mainline railroad. This was a 2-inch pipe at most, and it was strapped to a wooden post for stability. There wasn't a water tank especially for the railroad, but the nearby sugar mill had a big elevated tank.
• Sand – carried onto the engine in about a five-gallon pail, probably not completely full. The fireman/hostler leaned a ladder against the boiler so he could climb to the sandbox more easily. The sand was stored in bags in a wooden shack.
• Ashes (yes, you have to get rid of them) – dumped between the rails, not into a pit but onto sheets of iron that protected the ties from charring or worse. I don't remember how they disposed of the ashes, but there were shovels and wheelbarrows in the vicinity.So long,
Andy
Andy Sperandeo MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
fire5506Now most of them use diesel fuel.
-Morgan
PackerIf it's an oil-fired steamer, you won't need to have an ash pit or coaling facilities. You could even use the same fuel-oil and loading facilities for the diesel.
If it's an oil-fired steamer, you won't need to have an ash pit or coaling facilities. You could even use the same fuel-oil and loading facilities for the diesel.
Normally oil fired steamers used Bunker C fuel oil, which is a thick gooey oil that has the highest btu's. Diesel is a thin fuel oil. it's like comparing water to molasses. I'm talking about when steam was still used for railroading, not the steamers of today. Now most of them use diesel fuel.
Richard looking at MP 242 while working for the FEC
ranchero My On30 layout has a short spur that is dedicated for engine servicing. Being that the railroad is "poor"( it is afterall still reeling from the great depression) , servicing has to be bare minimum. the brass hat has already approved a water tower and a coal shed, theres a plan to build a small sand house but wondering what else is essential? Is the ash pit mandatory? can a small diesel be refueled from say a drum set up with a small pump ?The line Mogul and a small diesel are the only one needing servicing
My On30 layout has a short spur that is dedicated for engine servicing. Being that the railroad is "poor"( it is afterall still reeling from the great depression) , servicing has to be bare minimum. the brass hat has already approved a water tower and a coal shed, theres a plan to build a small sand house but wondering what else is essential? Is the ash pit mandatory? can a small diesel be refueled from say a drum set up with a small pump ?The line Mogul and a small diesel are the only one needing servicing
First thought: what would have been built "before" the Great Depression. Definitely a water tank, a sand house, and a shed for engine repair. Also an ash pit. The coaling facilities would depend on how business was before the Great Depression. Assuming that business was "reasonable", there might be a coal trestle, or engines would go over to the transshipment trestle to be coaled (the hopper car would sit at the end of the trestle).
The local fuel dealer's truck would come over to fill up the diesel.
Move ahead to 1939. Business is picking up and it looks like there's going to be a war. So there's some money for the engine facility. What would be the biggest need. Probably a tank for diesel fuel; sometimes the fuel dealer can't come over - especially on weekends. After that, some shop space for diesel work, and an office.
The engine facility could contain a mix of very old and new items: an old ash pit, a 12 year old water tank, and a brand new diesel fuel facility. And the surveyor is platting the site for the new sand house / office building.
Thinking of safety... back at the pickle tubs... You couldn't use air from the train pipe for a Jacuzzi but maybe you could run a blower off of one of the axles?
I think I'm going to call hot tubs "pickle tubs" from now on. Don't know why I didn't think of it before.
If you filled your Superliner pool with heavy water would it slop around less? You might need six wheel trucks from a heavyweight car though...
Dave-the-Train FlashwaveI gave my Dad a Roundhouse Pickle Car for Christmas. His exact words were "A Hot tub ca- Maybe that's where the "Pimp My Ride" kids got the idea from? If we add this to the idea of developing a hotel/leisure industry the RR could get inovative and hire out the hot-tub-car at different locations along its track until each resort gets to build its own,,, after all the loco could provide the hot water...
FlashwaveI gave my Dad a Roundhouse Pickle Car for Christmas. His exact words were "A Hot tub ca-
Maybe that's where the "Pimp My Ride" kids got the idea from?
If we add this to the idea of developing a hotel/leisure industry the RR could get inovative and hire out the hot-tub-car at different locations along its track until each resort gets to build its own,,, after all the loco could provide the hot water...
At one time, I had deisgned a Superliner Lounge as a Pool Car. Not rental pool, but a Natatorium type pool. Bout 12ft deep, starting in one end of the lower loungs, and the shallow entry at the upper level at the other end. The car would also have a pair of drying rooms, so spassengers can be decent enough to go back to their rooms to change. Yes, that would be about 700 tons after the water, about 12 safety violations, and NOT FUN doing anything above 15mph on a straight track. Slosh slosh.
Genious idea number two, was a single lever car, with individual jacuzzis and/or those never-ending lap swimming thingies, probabbly set 6 of them in each end, set diagonal, and the throughway zig zags. It balances the weight better, is less water. Sensors also present in the pools, coupled with timers, to detect anyone potentially having a medical problem, like, say, drowning. An ammenity on something like the AOE.
alco_fan In the US, pickling often invovles ... pickles. You know, like dill pickles
Wot? No pickled herring? What kind of a hotel/resort is that?
alco_fan In the US, pickling often invovles ... pickles. You know, like dill pickles Pickle cars and pickle plants have been a staple of whimsical model railroads for a long time. Not that its realistic, but its popular.
In the US, pickling often invovles ... pickles. You know, like dill pickles
Pickle cars and pickle plants have been a staple of whimsical model railroads for a long time. Not that its realistic, but its popular.
I gaave my Dad a Roundhouse Pickle Car for CHristmas. His exact words were "A Hot tub ca- I mean a Pickle Car!"
Looking forward to seeing your progress
What are you pickling? Fish? Umm... I don't think Vermont is coastal... a lake? big river?
I'm thinking of all those "what rail traffic would there be for..." threads.
I'm a great fan of William Least Heat Moon's "Blue Highways" and this sort of thing always makes me think of catfish farms and the like. How about pickled porcupine?
Could that passenger traffic link to holiday resorts like they had in the Catskills? Or maybe an attempt to start something like that?
well i plan on putting up a lil work-in-progress blog this week so maybe that will help. The layout is set in early 30's. right after depression. no specific locale but close to northeastern US around the canadian border (like a whimsical version of vermont i guess ). The Road owns the little mogul but the brass hat has been convinced to try a small diesel to see if it could eventually take over the place of the steamer ( it won't but the brass hat has been impressed enough to let the diesle operates as a switcher). The road connect one town ( the part modeled) to another ( hidden) the road reason of being is passenger traffic, and a pickling station ( and some general freight too) .the pickling station is well... part of the whimsy i guess, just thought about the fact i had yet to see a pickle producing station as a main source of revenue...i have enough room to model a decent size station that could necessitate twice a week servicing at least... the engine servicing spur is located next to the small 2 track freight yard. ill have some pictures later this week i guess
I enjoyed coming up withn the ideas (That and I like waffling )
I started my RR interest with UK narrow gauge and then went world wide. I don't know so much about US lines though. I used to get Shortline and NG Gazette which is brilliant but so much about models rather than the real thing. I like great models but I want info on the real thing so that I can model that not a model.
Where is your RR set and what's its traffic?
If the diesel has replaced another steamer have you thought of all the things you can do with bits of the steamer. In your period the scrapnvalue would probably not meet the cost of disposing of it...
PS I don't know what your steamer is burning but have you ever tried shovelling ash on a windy day? You want your ash drop in a sheltered spot and (relevent to the prevailing wind) not up wind of your workshop/offices,,, and any neighbours' washing lines... if at all possible... and/or you spot the gon you collect the ash in a similarly placed location... and even put an old tarp over the cooled load.
One thing you would want by your regular ash drop is a hose pipe or other source of water to damp the ashes down... you might have scorched bushes if there is a lot of vegetation...
hey Dave-the-train, thanks for the input, you've certainly put a lot of thought into my little query. Im definetly going to read up and apply some of your points, especially the idea of a steam donkey providing power to a conveyor belt... thats the kind of clever thinking the management would appreciate ;)
oh also , to those that have put up pictures, thanks, i like to visualize and even though we dont model in the same scale, its interesting to see im not the only one that had to deal with a situation like this. i do enjoy the problem solving though ;)
keep the suggestion coming
grizlump9Allegheny2-6-6-6 Go to Walthers website and check out Durango Press they make a lot of neat ON30 stuff just like what your looking for. I saw a jib crane that look cool and that would be something a servicing facility would need for lifting a locomotive or a car lets say for changing wheels or any number of heavy lifting tasks. they do make a neat looking little jib crane but i doubt if it would ever be used for lifting a car or locomotive.at least, i never saw it done that way in my years around the railroad. cars were always raised off their trucks by jacks (air powered where compressed air was available) set under the jacking pads on either side and after disconnecting the brake rods, the truck was rolled out from under the car once the body was high enough to clear the king pin.locomotive wheel and/or traction motor changeout was accomplished using a drop table.of course, i worked for a couple of wooden axle outfits and maybe the more "progressive" or modern day companies have other methods.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Go to Walthers website and check out Durango Press they make a lot of neat ON30 stuff just like what your looking for. I saw a jib crane that look cool and that would be something a servicing facility would need for lifting a locomotive or a car lets say for changing wheels or any number of heavy lifting tasks.
Go to Walthers website and check out Durango Press they make a lot of neat ON30 stuff just like what your looking for. I saw a jib crane that look cool and that would be something a servicing facility would need for lifting a locomotive or a car lets say for changing wheels or any number of heavy lifting tasks.
they do make a neat looking little jib crane but i doubt if it would ever be used for lifting a car or locomotive.
at least, i never saw it done that way in my years around the railroad. cars were always raised off their trucks by jacks (air powered where compressed air was available) set under the jacking pads on either side and after disconnecting the brake rods, the truck was rolled out from under the car once the body was high enough to clear the king pin.
locomotive wheel and/or traction motor changeout was accomplished using a drop table.
of course, i worked for a couple of wooden axle outfits and maybe the more "progressive" or modern day companies have other methods.
No your exactly correct but if I am not mistaken this is a back woods dirt water railroad so doing things So doing thing on "the cheap' or unconventionally is the norm. It's supposed to look if I am not mistaken like Rube Goldberg is heading up the maintenance department........lo I have a whole series of pictures of real logging railroads I bought at a flea market and if you want to talk about being inventive and creative with equipment these guys wrote the book.
Go check out the coal loader, ash pit, traveling crane, and the clean out rack these are all things I would have in his type of facility. really cool stuff.
Sorry to "fuss" but the idea of a new water tank is bugging me.
I have to stress that I (of course) don't know your whole geographical or historical scene... but...
Water arrangements will have been provided from very early in the RR's life... of course an old facility may have required replacement...
With just one loco to fill up - maybe two previously - there wouldn't be a great need for a large tank. Over here a lot of narrow gauge lines managed with between 1 and 2 times the loco's own tank size... and often fed the tank from a stream... sometimes through an overhead pipe across fields from an upstream inlet some distance away... again - gravity fed water is free... pumping costs money... or you could get lucky and have an artesian well...
If I were the loco crew I would want to be able to top off the water during the day without having to go into the loco spur... so I would suggest things are arranged with a spout serving the main track...
It depends on where and how high up in the country you are... but I would give some thought to the supply tank not freezing up... You could put it over the workshop with it's forge...
I think that I've already killed off a coal shed by trying to minimise the amount of shovelling... who wants to shovel coal into a shed and then back out... by the ton?
Thinking of freezing though... the far end of the track would tend to be the natural place to park any snowplough... and maybe some sort of way car to carry equipment, including the jacks, out to any derailment... so you might have other stuff like re-rail frogs carefully stored...
I'm barely a beginner in this area but a few things occur to me...
I hope al;l this gives you some ideas.
The conveyors are available from Walthers. You'll need one for unloading coal from a hopper:
The coal can be piled on the ground near the service track. Then you'll need an elevator-type conveyor to get the coal into the loco's tender (shovel technicians will be required to feed this thing with coal from the pile):
Mine is set fairly low for loading the truck, but you can build yours at whatever angle needed to reach the height of your loco's tender.
If your line has survived the Depression, you'd most likely already have a water tank of some sort. Walthers makes an attractive wooden one, although I believe that it's available only as a Built-Up. The Atlas water tower has been around for a long time, but its smaller size might be more appropriate for your short line. The kit is well-engineered and reasonably-priced. I painted all of mine boxcar red, but you could also paint yours as weathered wood, and make it look a little more time-worn:
For sand, the bucket idea would work, or you could build a simple jib crane, as shown HERE. A post (piece of dowel or styrene rod/tube) located 4' or 5' from the track, a fixed jib or boom (piece of brass or plastic "I" beam) extending out about halfway over the track, and a chainfall on rollers (you could probably fashion something suitable of of some bits of styrene. I wouldn't bother to make it the pivoting type - too extravagant. Of course, with either set-up, you'd still require a source of dry sand - have you got room beside the track for a sandhouse, with a bin, of course, for the "green" sand. It could come in on the service track in a drop-bottom gondola or boxcar (those shovel guys would be involved again), or in bags in a boxcar (same shovel guys, without the shovels - a change is as good as a rest).
For diesel fuel, the truck would work well and is about as minimal as you're going to get. Jordan makes one suitable for the '30s:
And Sylvan offers resin kits of slightly more modern ones.
Wayne
Dave, great to see you again! Boy, if you only knew what you started. ( Dave and I our friends from my HO slot car days)
PM me and I will send you some pictures.
Ken
I hate Rust
pcarrell If you dump on a service track then it will have to be cleaned off more often, and, it will eventually burn out the wooden ties.
It's worse than that. The ITM guys told me that south of 39th street, somewhere along Sutherland Ave, they found the remains to a service track that the steamers dumped on. Thanks to the rainwater mixing with the uncleaned ash, it turned to acid, and is eating out the bottom half of the RAIL. And we want to go to Indianapolis on that...
They also fed 587 with the above mentioned conveyor.
Very very cool ideas from Philip - interesting modeling in a very small space conveying the feel of a shoestring "make-do can-do" operation. What could be better than that?
I'm reserving a spot on my layout right now for just such a facility!
Jim
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
rancheroMy On30 layout has a short spur that is dedicated for engine servicing. Being that the railroad is "poor"( it is afterall still reeling from the great depression) , servicing has to be bare minimum. the brass hat has already approved a water tower and a coal shed, theres a plan to build a small sand house but wondering what else is essential? Is the ash pit mandatory? can a small diesel be refueled from say a drum set up with a small pump ?The line Mogul and a small diesel are the only one needing servicing