I have two Proto 1000 Erie Built, powered A and B set. A unit tracks like a dream, B on the there had will not stay on the track. Wheels are in gauge. Few years ago when I was having problems with 6 wheel truck engines I was given the tip of removing the center wheel set. This worked with the Athearn Blue Boxes I was running at the time. It all so worked with the PK B unit as well, to a point.
I went DCC and improved the track, all my big Engines track well. E-6, GE AC 6000's, RSD 15, SD 40-2, Dash, 8 Dash 9, even my big steam including my Y6-b and Big Boy track well!
I finally installed decoders in the Erie's, they had sat for 3 years. A unit still track like a champ, install the center wheels on the B, still derails.
Problem with the Erie, pulling power is sent from the wheel / gear set under the worm gear, then power transfered from that set to the other wheels. (Athearns have a idler gear in the center of the truck that transfers power to all 6 wheels, pull center set of wheels the inboard and outboard wheels still have pulling power). When I pulled the center wheels off the Erie it turns into a 4 wheel drive engine, instead of 12 wheel drive.
Most people here are going to say fix the track! I would if the other engines where having problems! Plus it has the wheel's derail at the hardest part reach, 6 foot deep against the wall.
Two of the fixes could be besides redoing the track are.
1 Making the center wheels blind, removing the flanges. But if there is a high point, center wheel set could act as a pivot.
2 Make axles with no wheels. There has to be a axle to keep the gear aliened. Any idea to what sizes the axle is?
Besides redoing the track, any other ideas? Just seems a shame to rip up track for 1 out of 40 engines.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Ken
If you can take the stub axle out of the gear you can chuck it in a drill press and file the flanges off.
Is the trucks warped? Maybe the truck pivots are bent or have some flash on them?
Just an Idea to check.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Ken,
Does it do its nastiness everywhere, or on curves. I was wondering if the truck doesn't allow the axles enough side play they'd bind in curves and cause it to jump track. Wouldn't matter even if the curve was in a turnout, it'd still be prone to it. Maybe if you make the center wheel set slightly "tight" or "loose" in gauge it'd fix it. That would be free and there's no better fix than a free one.
Lou
Have you considered finding out what the problem is before you hack apart your engines?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
45 years ago I had what I believe to be a TYCO SD9. It wouldn't go around my curves because of the center drive wheel on each truck ( three axle powered, three power pickup ) binding in the curves of 15" to 18" radius. I removed the center axle of each truck, secured it in a hobby vise and filed down the flanges on them. Worked good. I thought I still had it but I think I may have given it away many years ago. You may be able to get blind wheels from NWSL. I also had an HO american flyer hudson that had blind drivers on the center axle from the factory.
What size curves? Are you sure its not a coupler swing problem pulling the unit off? Possibly in an "S" curve?
Seems very strange. I vote for bigger curves, good track, not freak equipment.
But what do I know, I've only been doing this for 40 years now.
Sheldon
Hi Ken,
I do not have these locomotives, and this is a complete shot in the dark. My SD45 from P2K has a similar system of picking up electricity as the Kato's. One of my Kato's ran off of the siding and hit the floor. When I reassembled the unit it changed from a great tracking locomotive to one that derailed constantly. When I took the trucks apart I noticed that the copper bar in which the ends of the axle run in (which is used much like the SD45 engines strip to pick up power) was BEND. Once this piece was straightened out the engine ran fine, right up to now.
I hope this helps.
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
I know you said the wheels are in gage but what about the wheel thickness? Did you check them with the NMRA gage? I had an Athearn six axle diesel I think it may have been an SD40-2 that did something very similar the center pair of wheels where too thin and when it would go around a curve the wheel would actually slip right off the rail. I had never seen anything like it before or since neither did anyone at the LHS or the club but we had the wheel and the gage to prove it. Swapped the wheel out with one from a dead Athearn parts loco and it was fine. The other thing I would look at is how freely the trucks move on the B unit do they move freely and one thing that just came to mind is what if you run the B unit alone with out the A does it still do the same thing?Maybe a dumb question but did you have the problem when it was DC? Possibly something happened when you installed the decoder.
Thanks for all the answers. One thing I have not check is the thickness of the wheels. I cannot see where it starts to derail. It does derail in the same area, so I do know there is something back in the conner it still does not like.
To get to the area, I have to remover around 25 buildings and there lights. Then lay on the layout to get to the problem spot.
Turn in question is 24 inch. What happens is the train heads behind the town, it running into the turnout (the Y end not the blades) then goes around the first left turn, then a 5 foot straight and then around the next 24 inch left turn the front wheel is off the rail. Other parts of the bench it tracks well, turnouts are not a problem.
Last night I did check to make sure the trucks, and wheels moved freely. (I had a FP 45 that the trucks hit the ladders and caused it to derail). Metal side frame's do look straight.
I will reinstall the center wheels and run it by it self and see what happens.
I had this problem when I first got the engine and ran DC.Reason they sat for so long. That and I hated the dim light of the A unit. It now has a LED.
Real odd part to me is the A unit tracks great and they have the same chassis and trucks.
Thanks for all the kind answers.
One quick suggestion, rather then remove all those building, lights etc. (I feel your pain on that one)
I would get some flex track if you have it available and roadbed etc. and reproduce the curve in mock up so to speak and run that B unit across it and observe it and see what happens. Thinking about it logically if all of your other locomotives run through that area without a hitch then why would it be the track work, makes sense doesn't it?
As far as checking the wheel with there is the no-go slot on the NMRA Gage for doing that, if you don't have one I would just compare the wheels on the B to the wheels on the A unit. Only other things that comes to mind is maybe the weight of the loco off , too light perhaps. It sounds like what my spectrum J class was doing. Would run fine just about all over the layout until one downward inside curve where I constantly got derailments. I had to swap out the factory drawbar for one I got from PSC that was a little longer then the stock one allowing the tender to track better throughout the turns rather then have the front wheel set lift off the tracks.
I fixed the power transfer problem. Found the shafts of the wheels set was 1.5 mm, but could not find any metal shafts that sizes. Ken, owner of K-10 Model Trains suggested I use a drill bite. A number 53 was all most a perfect fit. It was a tad to big, so I chucked it into my drill back wards and used 120 grit sandpaper to make the shaft a little smaller. Cut the drill bite shaft to fit inside the truck. Fit the new axles into the drive gear and now have power transfer to the other set of wheels.
Have been running it for a few hours and all seems to be well.
Thanks for all of the answers!