I decided that the DCC issues were to not for me, mainly no individual sound volumes, no advance consist, and the toy like chatter. So as of last night my MTH SD70ace now houses a Tsunami TSU-1000 decoder.This install takes a bit of work and not recommended for beginners or those without electronic experiene. Works like a charm and I can now enjoy it.
Springfield PA
I heard about the free update. When you open the engine up you see that there's nothing to update. There are no replaceable chips. You would have to replace the entire board. Even if they offered a free decoder replacement, judging by their past with dates it would be 6 months after they announced it.
By the way where did they announce it? I haven't been able to find an official statement.
Are they doing that with all their engines?
The MTH upgrade is a software upgrade, not hardware. However, you need to have an HO DCS system in order to make the upgrade.Paul A. Cutler III
Couple more pics. This is where the ditchlight circuit board is located. The SD70 uses light guides with remote boards rather than try to squeeze led's in the light housings.
They also use a decent sized motor with an opto sensor on the flywheel. Note the white and black stripes inside the flywheel. When changing out the decoder the 3 wire opto sensor was abandoned. I don't know what they use it for but it might be their version of bemf.
Here's one of their motor, speaker and opto wires. The speakers are 8 ohm wired in parallel. The tsunami's minimum is 8 ohms so I re-wired them in series per the tsunami instructions to prevent damage to the decoder.
Testing the Loco
Good job on that DCC install, it looks like it's going to be worth the effort you took. I've always wondered why nobody would just gut their MTH loco of the DCS stuff and install a DCC decoder. In regards to the software update, the MR review of the SD70ACe made mention of MTH's intent to provide an upgrade to make their electronics more DCC compatible. Also, I think that opto-sensor thing is to better synchronize the sound with the locomotive motion, similar to steamers with the chuff sync. Just some thoughts.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
I really think that MTH would be more successful if they would offer DC and true DCC versions of their locomotives. 95% of HO modellers, IMHO, want either DC or DCC.
For the price of these engines, you shouldn't be expected to "contribute" another $100 for a Tsunami to bring the engine up to your layout's standards.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
It still escapes my understanding, why MTH as one of the smaller manufacturers/importers chooses to have a proprietary system, thus voluntarily limiting the number of customers they can reach with their products - it just does not make sense to me. After all, they are not Marklin, which still is the worldwide market leader.
Congrats on a successful conversion - probably has cost you $ 100 plus quite a few hours to get the dang thing running properly on your layout, which you control with a NMRA conform system ...
Sir Madog It still escapes my understanding, why MTH as one of the smaller manufacturers/importers chooses to have a proprietary system, thus voluntarily limiting the number of customers they can reach with their products - it just does not make sense to me. After all, they are not Marklin, which still is the worldwide market leader....
...
I believe that mike believes that because mth and the dcs system is such a big player in 3-rail, that by default anything he does in the smaller scales will also have that kind of impact. I don't think mth realizes just how small and minor a player in HO he really is and will stay until he makes locos with full DCC compatibility. A lot of us have already voted with our wallets by refusing to buy anything from mth until he does. Its real easy for me, he doesn't make anything I would buy at this point.
Every loco in mth's 2010 HO catalog, is now, or soon will be made by another manufacturer.
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
Sir MadogAfter all, they are not Marklin, which still is the worldwide market leader.
I will admit I know nothing about who buys how many of what kind of model trains around the world, but I would sure like to see some numbers to back up such a claim.
Especially about a company that can hardly stay in business. Here in the US the presence of Marklin in the market is almost zero. And even their US standards line from Trix is a zero market share.
I realize the world does not begin or end with the US, and, as you and I have discussed before, the US model train market is very fragmented compaired to Germany, but Marklin as world leader? It must be EVERYWHERE but here.
As for MTH, I agree, way foolish on his part.
As for the OP, good for him, I hope someone brings this post to the attention of Mike Wolf so he can see just how much us HO modelers "want" his DCS.
Sheldon
Sheldon, I own two Trix locomotives, and I know that Tom Stage has at least one. I doubt that the market for Marklin/Trix is 'zero' in N. America. It may surely be very small, even teensy, but it exists and hobby shops that you can google sell them.
-Crandell
ATLANTIC CENTRALI realize the world does not begin or end with the US, and, as you and I have discussed before, the US model train market is very fragmented compared to Germany, but Marklin as world leader? It must be EVERYWHERE but here.
I realize the world does not begin or end with the US, and, as you and I have discussed before, the US model train market is very fragmented compared to Germany, but Marklin as world leader? It must be EVERYWHERE but here.
Sheldon - Marklin is a BIG player in the world of model railroads, much to the dismay of many a hardcore DC model railroader in Europe / Germany. Marklin´s market share of about 35 - 40 % in Europe is based on the company´s tradition and reputation for quality. In any case you´d be surprised how many Marklin aficionados there are in the US. Even MR has a video here showing a Marklin layout. The biggest market, however, appears to be Germany - no wonder! Model railroading is a much more wide spread hobby over here, attracting a growing number of people each year.
Btw, Marklin´s consolidated sales topped 125 million Euros in 2008, that´s about 180 million USD. Neither Bachmann nor Hornby with its brands Rivarossi, Jouef, Lima and Arnold (sales 2008: 69 million Euros) plays in this league, let alone Atlas or Athearn.
To say, they are not in the model railroading business, but in the toy train business is simply incorrect. It does not help to wear blinkers ...
Crandell,
Obviously they sell a little of that stuff here, but statisticly, if we ranked all model train sales in the US by manufacturer, Trix might well be less than 1%. Marklin only slightly more I suspect. That is what I meant.
Their extremely limited selection of US prototypes, combined with their high prices, non standard coupler pockets, diesels with swivel pilots for 14" radius, etc, all limit their ability to gain any customers in this market.
That's exactly what I want, a PA1 I have to run as an A-A set with swivel pilots that only comes in UP - that's a pretty small market. The market for that expensive Canadian piece talked about a few weeks ago is likely bigger.
Marklin/Trix is just like MTH, they are in the toy train business and don't understand the model train business. Don't get me wrong, they make great trains, just not ANYTHING that suits my modeling needs/wants or the needs/wants of most of the modelers I have ever met in 40 years - 40 years that included several well known clubs and running a train department in a hobby shop. A hobby shop that even tried to sell Marklin - with no success.
I'll bet no matter how you measure it, units sold or dollar volume, Athearn, Walthers, Atlas, Bachmann and any number of other European companies, Brawa?, are bigger than Marklin is now.
Maybe one day long ago, but not today.
IIRC, Marklin has declared bankruptcy, and again if IIRC correctly, its not clear whether or not the German Courts will allow it to emerge still in business or be liquidated.
Marklin is still in business and will continue to be so. Liquidation will not take place, according to Mr. Pluta, who is currently handling Marklin´s business.
Sir MadogBtw, Marklin´s consolidated sales topped 125 million Euros in 2008, that´s about 180 million USD. Neither Bachmann nor Hornby with its brands Rivarossi, Jouef, Lima and Arnold plays in this league.
But since Athearn, Walthers and Atlas are privately held companies that have never filed bankruptcy, we have no way of knowing what their sales are, do we. To assume that none of these companies are on that scale has no basis. $200 million would not seem unreasonable for Walthers or Athearn, considering the width and depth of their product lines. Bachmann has a wide scope, but little depth, at least in the US market products, so I would easily agree that Marklin might be as big or bigger than them.
While Hornby seems strong in its orginal markets, Rivarossi, Jouef, Lima, and Arnold have all been struggling for decades.
I do not doubt the popularity or quality of Marklin - I am very familar with the product. And yes there are people here who have it and are interested in it. But they are a very small percentage of a very diverse and fragmented market.
Sir Madog Marklin is still in business and will continue to be so. Liquidation will not take place, according to Mr. Pluta, who is currently handling Marklin´s business.
I did not say they where out of business, at least here in the US, filing for backruptcy and going out of business are two completely different things.
I know they are still in business, but needing to file backruptcy does not say good things about the future or the management, or both.
And, they have yet to make a product that has moved one penny out of my pocket.
Paul3The MTH upgrade is a software upgrade, not hardware. However, you need to have an HO DCS system in order to make the upgrade.Paul A. Cutler III
Paul,
I don't know if you're being facetious with your answer or not but THAT'S funny!
So, let me get this straight: In order for me to obtain the FREE upgrade...to utilize and access ALL the functions built into the MTH sound decoder...with my DCC system...I now need to "purchase" a MTH DCS system to convert the software...so I can now run it fully and successfully in DCC. (Or, at the very least - find someone who already has a MTH DCS system so that they can convert the software for me.)
Why does this sound like a used-car deal to me? Makes me even more glad I don't own any MTH locomotives.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
That is good news. I wasn't sure I had read correctly as it was last year I believe. Marklin had bought LGB and was going to import it to the US, but several of my G-Gauge friends are upset that it hasn't occurred.
Any news about G-Gauge part of Marklin.
Tom,
We were discussing this very thing on another forum, and we all bet that you can send your loco back to mth, and they'll do the upgrade. But you'll have to pay for it!!
Thanks for the kind words. I have more pics and a few notes that I posted on another site. I'll post them here as well. As far as the upgrade, no release is available and if it's anything like the original release, it will be 6 months or more late. There's also no guarantee that they'll make it fully compatible. The upgrade cost was a hundred bucks, but it was a nice little enjoyable challenge and of course part of the hobby to me.
Here's the actual ditch light board. Since MTH uses a negative common (Tsunami uses Positive common), I had to use an exacto to separate the led common's and run an additional wire so that I could have flashing ditch lights. Also note that I used 1k resistors with the led's. I don't know what the range is but so far these seem to work just fine.
Some wiring identified
Some more components with shell off and engine casing still in place
Close up of the Headlight/number light board.