Now I know where everyone gets their stars from!

[Bergie]

Sorry to anyone who may have been posting when I locked this...

[Bergie]

I think this has gone far enough, so I'm locking it.

Please remain positive.

Bergie

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

But to use the fact that you know Bergie on a personal level to make it appear that you have higher status than other members is somehow wrong.

Just to clear things up, Elliot and I do not know each other on a personal level. We've had a few conversations on the phone about these forums, but that's the extent of it. No single use has more of a voice than any other user. If you have some concerns about a topic, please e-mail me.

Bergie

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

The truth is that unless someone here says something to Bergie, he won't take action.

Not true, Elliot. It doesn't take an e-mail from one of the users for me to know what needs to be pulled. Yes, many of the inappropriate threads from the past have been brought to my attention, but there have been occassions where I've pulled things upon browsing the forums on my own.

Bottom line, I do rely on you guys to help police these forums but I also can take action on my own.

Please use common sense. If you have a feeling that what you're about ready to type is going to make someone mad, don't post it. Walk away. Go build a kit and come back the next day. Stars are a very ridiculous thing to get all worked up over.

Please control your emotions and try to keep the large majority of the topics here related to our hobby. If you didn't know better you'd think this was a high school debate team's forum. Let's try to learn more about model railroading from one another.

Bergie

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9

Don't worry Big_Boy_4005,

[bow][bow][bow]I have been beat into submission by your bully tactics. [bow] I respect you and your stars. [bow] I have been assimilated. [bow][bow][bow]

Now I have to move on to more meaningful postings and topics.

Thank you, that sounds nice. I may be a bully from time to time, but I only do it when I see injustice or other inappropriate behavior. The majority of the members have agreed and spoken on this subject.

Perhaps the most interesting thing is that Mr Matthewson and I have had words in the past on another subject, but I took his side here. Remember, there may come a time when you find someone picking on you, when you didn't do anything to deserve it. I would gladly stand up for you in that case. Now please go have fun talking trains.[:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9

Don't worry Big_Boy_4005,

[bow][bow][bow]I have been beat into submission by your bully tactics. [bow] I respect you and your stars. [bow] I have been assimilated. [bow][bow][bow]

Now I have to move on to more meaningful postings and topics.

UNBELIEVABLE...[sigh][sigh][sigh]

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9

Don't worry Big_Boy_4005,

[bow][bow][bow]I have been beat into submission by your bully tactics. [bow] I respect you and your stars. [bow] I have been assimilated. [bow][bow][bow]

Now I have to move on to more meaningful postings and topics.

[banghead]

[darth9x9]

Don't worry Big_Boy_4005,

[bow][bow][bow]I have been beat into submission by your bully tactics. [bow] I respect you and your stars. [bow] I have been assimilated. [bow][bow][bow]

Now I have to move on to more meaningful postings and topics.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky
Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are.

Whatever they are, I'm one post closer to having three of them!! [:D]

Bravo Jerry!! And on that happy note, I think we are ready to get back to talking trains. I discovered a little while ago that Mr Matthewson has graciously agreed to rise above all of this. Party over.[swg]

[Roadtrp]

Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky
Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder what you are.

Whatever they are, I'm one post closer to having three of them!! [:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Nah Andrew, you're just venting a little. What I find interesting is that right now we are just talking amongst ourselves. The Bills are nowhere to be seen, but it is a holiday.[swg]

[AntonioFP45]

[#ditto][:)][tup]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

You know troops, I can't even believe that we're hashing this over again after what happened last time with Doogle. Da@&t Darth, you have alot of nerve coming on here as a new poster and flaming these terrific folks the way you have. This forum is, as has been said many times, not unlike a club, only in the virtual sense. I've never met any of these guys on here but I can tell you this, I would be proud to call any one of them my friend if I met them personnally. As it is, I have a lot of respect for each and every one of them, including the younger generation, that post here. If you don't care for this forum or you don't like the NES or any other topic, you have two choices, (1) ignore those topics which you don't care to post a response to or (2) don't come to this forum at all, you know the door does swing both ways and no one is twisting your arm to stay here. You are, however, welcome to stay, if you like and become a contributing member of this or any other forum topic, just, please, clean up you're attitude. These fine folks on here don't have to sit here, and be ridiculed by a new poster who hasn't the slightest idea of what this forum is all about. [:(!][:(!][:(!][soapbox][soapbox]

Gentlemen--

Seems to me that often flamers bring 'baggage' into the Forums--and it spills out in their respective posts on occasion. As a rule, we should all be certain we aren't entering with issues of any kind, so that the focus can (as it should be) remain on matters as they pertain to the hobby and nothing more.

I left the MR Forums some time back because the incessant bickering/flaming had grown tiresome and I was galled at having to navigate through so much of. After recouperating sufficiently I've come back and I'm happy to have returned.

There are some very talented and well informed individuals here and I for one have learned so much from the experience and wisdom that has been shared. Please: let's keep it a GREAT PLACE TO VISIT. Flamers serve no purpose and if you must vent there are more appropriate places to do so.

Remember also that any offenses/slights can easily be remedied via a sincere apology.

Just my two cents. Hope I haven't ticked anyone off.[:)]

Andrew

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Phil.

Emerald, sometimes these things have to be re-lived for the benefit of those who have not previouly experienced them. Every once in a while something like this will come up,and we just have to deal with it. I think we are doing a pretty good job. The secret is to recognize injustice, correct it, and try to prevent it in the future.

By the way Antonio, Bergie isn't in the office today. [swg] The moderation style at Kalmbach is very passive. It is only on the most rare occasion that there will be any kind of intervention here on the forums.

In the last 6 weeks there was a lot of it over on the Trains Magazine forum. I have been involved in a number of "incidents" that most people never saw, including 2 topics that were deleted by Mark.

One I started, which a few people saw, complaining about all of the re-reporting of train wrecks. Mark thought it was a bit "dark" and pulled it. The other was complaining about Mark as editor. I responded, and so did Bergie both in Mark's defense, but he decided to remove it. He also removed the person who posted it. Did you ever see Stelli? You won't anymore.[swg]

Bottom line, I don't have any more power here than anyone else, but I do have more experience. I will always try to do good and help people, be it train related or forum related. This just happens to be forum related.

[Anonymous]

You know troops, I can't even believe that we're hashing this over again after what happened last time with Doogle. Da@&t Darth, you have alot of nerve coming on here as a new poster and flaming these terrific folks the way you have. This forum is, as has been said many times, not unlike a club, only in the virtual sense. I've never met any of these guys on here but I can tell you this, I would be proud to call any one of them my friend if I met them personnally. As it is, I have a lot of respect for each and every one of them, including the younger generation, that post here. If you don't care for this forum or you don't like the NES or any other topic, you have two choices, (1) ignore those topics which you don't care to post a response to or (2) don't come to this forum at all, you know the door does swing both ways and no one is twisting your arm to stay here. You are, however, welcome to stay, if you like and become a contributing member of this or any other forum topic, just, please, clean up you're attitude. These fine folks on here don't have to sit here, and be ridiculed by a new poster who hasn't the slightest idea of what this forum is all about. [:(!][:(!][:(!][soapbox][soapbox]

[AntonioFP45]

Points well taken, however, the overall point I'm trying to stress here is that even if we're trying to resolve a situation on these posts, for a fellow poster to respond "authoritively" or "arrogantly" is not at all a good thing and may only produce more hard feelings.[V]

While we can kindly "suggest" that a flamer "cool his jets", it is still the "paid" Moderator's job, not mine, not BigBoy4005, to ask or tell a poster not to make any further responses. I believe this site belongs to Kalmbach/Model Railroader; we're the passengers. Bergie and the Moderators are the conductors, engineeer, etc. They run this train! Not the passengers, even though without us there would be no forum.

Using the so called "Command Voice" on this forum from a fellow modeler is meaningless, and again can produce resentment. Now that we know how to contact Bergie or other moderator's, we can zip an e-mail to them if things get out of hand. For anyone of us to assume command and dictate a person's actions, well meaning of course, is presumptuous and again leave hard feelings.

BTW: Bill Matthewson, keep posting! Your information has always been valuable!

Cheers and 10-4!

[philnrunt]

I actually had to return to the original post and re-read it, as I did'nt think it was that offensive the first time. Now I see that it was a pretty accusational post, and it was kinda fun to follow it all the way thru again to where it ends up.
Big Boy's reply may have been arrogant, but it got its message across clearly, and I doubt he would have said it if he could'nt back it up. In police work we call that using his command voice. Sometimes it works, sometimes you get punched in the nose.
I do hope darth9x9 stays around, it looks like he has quite a bit to offer, experience wise.
And I stiil think stars carry the right message, those of you that have been here forever know so much more about this forum than I do, and thats where the payoff comes from. You may not know more about RR-ing than anyone else individually, but all of you put together are like a computer with vast RR resources. And those with lots of stars KNOW where to find the answers.
Still, if this fight keeps going on, we are having a town festival this week that is a little weak on entertainment, the Bills could show up and settle it on stage with good old fisticuffs and maybe win a trophy!( I promise no one will go to the lockup)

[Big_Boy_4005]

Actually, in the case of Doggy I think Mark had seen enough and had already made up his mind. He either missed the apology, or perhaps felt that those were good parting thoughts. I'm not sure if Doggy was banned, or simply sent a strong email, but there have been no further Doggy sightings.

To contact Bergie, at the bottom of every page is a small button "contact us". If you click on that there are a bunch of choices, Bergie is one of them, though I don't think it says "Bergie". The other way is to locate one of his posts, and click the email icon. To find a post you could do a search. I'm not sure if Mark has his email on his posts, but the same trick would work if he did. Some of the staff have their emails on their profiles, and some don't. You can learn all kinds of things hanging around here.[swg]

I have dubbed this the "Battle of the Bills", and have elsewhere asked Mr Matthewson to please not make any further response. I hope that he sees that message, and if he obliges, this should end. He has public opinion on his side here.

I think you know me well enough by now to know that I don't usually take that tone. I do use some strong words sometimes if I feel the situation calls for it. I would like to see US resolve this without involving Bergie, but that option is available if we can't. In the past we have resolved things like this ourselves, and I don't see why this one should be any different.

[dave9999]

Hey Elliot,
I know that these topics can sometimes get out of hand. I also know that a little conflict is sometimes nessecary to reach a conclusion. But this forum doesn't need a tattle-tale either. I am fully aware that Bergie hasn't time or energy to police every topic that gets posted here, but everyone here does a pretty
good job of addressing the "out of hand" topics.
I have been the center of attention before, and I realised that I was out of line in my choice of words when responding to another forum member. And it wasn't because of a email from Bergie or a warning from a higher power. It was from the responses from other members.
But to use the fact that you know Bergie on a personal level to make it appear that you have higher status than other members is somehow wrong.
Please don't take this the wrong way because I enjoy reading your responses and often learn a thing or two.
I just believe we can handle these things without having to bother the forum moderators.
Just an observation. Dave

[AntonioFP45]

I see and respect your point BigBoy4005, but my point is that the "arrogant tone in your response was unnecessary as you could have easily made your point without it. As a former manager that was often "threatened", I found that I got a lot more respect from my team by being "straight, and cool headed instead of jumping up on a high horse like my "very disliked boss", often did . I've always noticed that the old "Watch it, I've got connections" response is a major turnoff with most people, yes me too. [2c]

Sent Doggy packing, after he apoligized profusely? I can only assume that something else happened that we're not aware of. Then again, Doggy can just as easily assume a new identity and return from a different e-mail address. Who's gained what?

BTW: How do we contact Bergie or Mark Hemphill if we are to be their "eyes and ears?" Is there an icon or e-mail address we go to?

Thanks!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Perhaps Antonio, but Bergie doesn't have time to watch every topic. I have had a couple of phone conversations with him regarding other things. He has made it clear that WE are his eyes and ears. Of course, Mr Carl hasn't been around enough to know about all of the things that we have seen here. The truth is that unless someone here says something to Bergie, he won't take action. My point is that I'm not afraid to say something.

I know the Doggy story, but what you don't know is that Mark Hemphill actually sent him packing. Too bad too, because I really thought we had him turned around when he made that appology. Mark and I go back 20 years, and I'm very sad to see him leaving. I have other contacts at Kalmbach though none of them have much to do with the forum.

In the past, other members have emailed me when there was trouble here on the forum. I have more experience dealing with situations like this than you know. Yes, it did sound arrogant, but I felt that that was the tone to take in this situation, and I stand my statement.

I am willing to bet, that there is not a single person that spends more time on these forums than I do!!! NOT EVEN BERGIE, and he gets paid!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Well guys,

Lot's of good responses but for me personally, I find much greater value in being able to give helpful suggestions as well as reading some of the super good ideas that I've seen on this Forum. I find the quality and thoughts behind posts and responses much more valuable and meaningful.

BillMatthewson, I read your above response. You've got your act together and are mentally sharp, don't let "flamers" irritate you! CNW flamed me some months back and I responded "irritably". Since then I've discovered that one is better off ignoring flaming responses and to later continue helping the person that flamed you anyway. Sounds "Pacificist"? It's not, really, That person, in turn, perhaps out of guilt, will often respond supportingly to your future posts. [;)]

In our personal lives, friends and family "flame us" on a regular basis. Hopefully, we don't continually torpedo them back. We forget about it and move on!" [:)]

A while back Doggy flamed a few people on the TRAINS forum and was repeatedly "Blow Torched!". I haven't seen his posts in a long while. I would like to see him back. The people beating him over might have felt justified, but in the end we lose if he stops posting and leaves the forum altogether.

While fun, star counts are bascially a bunch of electronically generated ones and zeroes on the computer screen.

BigBoy4005 - with all due respect, you have good intentions but your comment about "friends in high places" and "sending in e-mail" while not meant to be, sounds arrogant. Makes you appear like you have a "big stick" when in reality the moderators checking these posts have the stick. Just an observation guy, nothing more.

Cheers! And thanks to all my fellow modelers for the help in your posts and responses!

Well said.

The forums are for exchanging knowledge, ideas, and friendships.

Personal attacks are not needed or appreciated.

EVERYONE Please do your best to refrain from attacking people by name or responding to a personal attack.

Please remember the Golden Rule and treat others are you would like to be treated.

Remember you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. [;)]

Trust me as time goes on you don't pay that much attention to anyone's stars much less your own.

Forget about the stars on concentrate on meeting people, exchanging ideas, helping people in the hobby, encouraging those of lesser skills (modeling skills and people skills) and in doing so you will find that you have new friends that enjoy your forums visits and look forward to reading your posts. You not only will gain new friendships but will enjoy your time in the forums so much more.

Play Fair

Be Nice

Be a Friend.

Then you will gain a Friend.

[AntonioFP45]

Well guys,

Lot's of good responses but for me personally, I find much greater value in being able to give helpful suggestions as well as reading some of the super good ideas that I've seen on this Forum. I find the quality and thoughts behind posts and responses much more valuable and meaningful.

BillMatthewson, I read your above response. You've got your act together and are mentally sharp, don't let "flamers" irritate you! CNW flamed me some months back and I responded "irritably". Since then I've discovered that one is better off ignoring flaming responses and to later continue helping the person that flamed you anyway. Sounds "Pacificist"? It's not, really, That person, in turn, perhaps out of guilt, will often respond supportingly to your future posts. [;)]

In our personal lives, friends and family "flame us" on a regular basis. Hopefully, we don't continually torpedo them back. We forget about it and move on!" [:)]

A while back Doggy flamed a few people on the TRAINS forum and was repeatedly "Blow Torched!". I haven't seen his posts in a long while. I would like to see him back. The people beating him over might have felt justified, but in the end we lose if he stops posting and leaves the forum altogether.

While fun, star counts are bascially a bunch of electronically generated ones and zeroes on the computer screen.

BigBoy4005 - with all due respect, you have good intentions but your comment about "friends in high places" and "sending in a single e-mail" while not meant to be, sounds very arrogant. Makes you appear like you have a "big stick" when in reality the moderators checking these posts have the stick. Just an observation guy, nothing more.

Cheers! And thanks to all my fellow modelers for the help in your posts and responses!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by darth9x9

A question to all those that defend the stars: can you too post links of modeling work that you have done?

I look forward to seeing all the great work that has been accomplished outside of this forum.

My work can be found in the pages of MR and CTT. Read my profile. If you would like to buy the DVD here is the link. http://tmbooks-video.com/ The title is Great Toy train Layouts, and mine is the last one featured.

[Big_Boy_4005]

OK Bills, that's enough, time to stop this nonsense before it gets ugly!!!

Bill C, I and a number of the others got the impression from the start that you were picking on Bill M, by naming him in your original post. It would have been different had you not used his name, and only said "some people". Bill M is only trying to defend himself in the face of what seemed to be a personal attack. The truth is HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!!!!

If there is one thing that will not be tolerated on this forum, it is personal attacks. This whole thing needs to stop NOW. This is one issue where MY stars DO matter, and I WILL use them. I have a lot of friends here, including some in very high places. It only takes a single email from me to stop this, if it doesn't stop on it's own.

SO, PLAY NICE !!!!

[lupo]

Bill Carl,[bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow]
what IS your problem with this forum?
that people with no lay-out or modelling skills have more stars then you, even though you are president of a modelrailroading organisation?
The stars are just a post-count, nothing more, this is not the army and I hope we are not little boys comparing their [censored] sizes.
Why that "show me yours and I will show mine" you are an adult are you?

One of the reasons to visit this forum is human interaction, I like that, and that is what a forum is made for. :

QUOTE:
from a dictionary:
Main Entry: fo·rum
Pronunciation: 'fOr-&m, 'for-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra /-&/
Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door -- more at DOOR
1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2 : a judicial body or assembly : COURT
3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

If I want plain info I'll buy a book, read a magazine or consult GOOGLE


btw: I allready know that my grammar and spelling suck, but hey, english is not my native language!

[darth9x9]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bill mathewson

a message to Bill Carl-

First of all. I am not initiating a flame war. I had considered just ignoring your cheap shot, but since you singled me out as an example, and initiated this rant, you have left me no other choice than to respond to your silly accusation.

What initially crossed my mind is how I have been teased at posting lengthy replies at times, and yet now I am being nailed for posting some three word "replies" on the NES. I have to admit, I actually got a chuckle out of that. Then I thought about how I've often invested considerable time to research a response to a topic, so that my contribution is accurate, thorough and the best that it could be. Such a reply only earns a single post. So what !

However, there a few "flamers" on this Forum, as in life, that are judgemental and fairly miserable people hell-bent on finding ways to inflate their self-importance at the expense of others. Or they just worry about truly dumb things. The internet age has provided a means for twits like yourself to sneak up and blast people in 'cyber-space', and in general, conduct yourself far differently than you would in front of an individual, by hiding in front of your monitor instead. Your comment re: that I made meaningless posts to accumulate another 'star' is one of the most ludicrous - no, really stupid - comments on this Forum in quite awhile. That you initiated a new topic specific to that is even more so.

I could care less about the 'stars' and don't particularly see the benefit of them. except that it demonstrates that one has spent a lot of time pursuing their hobby on the Forum. Someone posted that since "The Never Ending Story" and the "The Coffee Shop" aren't "about trains", perhaps posts there shouldn't earn stars on those topics. Who really cares, but it seems like an easy fix for Bergie to just implement such a change, especially if it will quiet you. You can even have my 'stars' to hang on your wall as little trophies.

Had you ever just considered raising the question, perhaps even on "The Coffee Shop", as to whether or not 'stars' should be earned when posting on the two topics that you seem to think are meaningless and unrelated to trains? Or, if it was I in particular who had gotten under your skin, and worked you up into such a frenzy, you could have just emailed me directly, and presented your opinion to me. Were you a tattle-tale in school?

You may have computer skills, but your understanding of people sucks. Suggest you read my posts dated 5/28 on the topic "nevermind", and see if any of that applies to you.

I have been a model railroader for over fifty years and love this hobby and have met many fine modelers and train people all over the country. I have learned a lot from them, and I'm always eager and glad to contribute my experiences and knowledge when I can. I absolutely make an attempt to give back to this Forum at least as much benefit as I have received from it. I am on the Forum, as well as another, more than once a day, and it has become a mostly enjoyable journey, ecept for minor delays and derailments like this one.

The NES has been a lot of fun and a creative escape for me as I expect it has been for those who frequently participate in it. If it isn't to your liking and you don't condone it, just ignore it and go on to another topic. For God's sake, get a life. This Forum has been graciously provided to us by the folks at Kalmbach, and I thought that it was to be shared worldwide, and not just cater to a few.

It wasn't much fun this AM, however, having to waste my time replying to your silly little attack.

BILL

A message to Bill Methewson:

I am not here to flame for if I were, I would be on rec.models.railroad. I __AM__ totally amazed on how I made a comment on stars based on __FACT__ of what I had observed on the forum and then you come back and say:
- I made a cheep shot
- I made a silly accusation
- I am a flamer
- I have been worked up into a frenzy
- My understanding of people sucks
- I made a silly attack

Gosh, you have taught me so much and just how nice people are on this forum. I'm sure you feel much better now. Thank you so much for educating me. I guess I'll go back in my hole and "get a life" as you suggested. I need to work more on my modeling skills anyway. Can you post some links to the modeling work you have done? If you are ever at a GSMTS show (www.gsmts.com) in Timonium, MD, I'd like to buy you a soda as gratitude for my thanks and we can sit down and talk.

A question to all those that defend the stars: can you too post links of modeling work that you have done?

I look forward to seeing all the great work that has been accomplished outside of this forum.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SuperChiefFan

I think thanks are in order to Emeraldisle for presenting 'NES' to the forum in the first place. It's harmless! I could hardly believe my eyes when I returned to the forum and saw that it had grown to over 200 pages. Clearly, it has it's place.

I have to question something, however: why the continued bickering over the number of stars generated? I've always presumed the entire point of being here (in addition to learning, sharing insights and enjoying the comaraderie of others) was to have fun.

Thanks to all who have gotten so much enjoyment from the NES

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yeah guys, I should probably go "dry out" too. It takes real will power to go cold turkey Andrew, you're a better man than I am. [swg]