I walked into a train shop today for the first time in 8 years. I am contemplating a return to model railroading after spending the last 8 years in model building. My first thought was how stuff has changed. Where has all the buildable cars kits gone? All I see is ready to run stuff. And expensive too. I remember Athern car kits for $6 and now they are $18 and higher. Wow. Is the old blue/white kits still available at shows? How about Accurail?
I have several questions. Scale? I worked in N last time and found it quite nice. This time I have the space for HO. The selection seems nicer still. I am thinking going DCC. Command 2000 was just coming on the scene when I left and that is what I tried using as it was easier to use and cheaper than Digitrax. But the decoders were near impossible to install. Has this become easier? And lastly, is the new Cornerstone steel run of kits better than the first? What happened to the lumbermill and paper plant series?
Thanks,
Jeff
The old blue box kits are still available. I come across a few from time to time.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
welcome back. yes, things have changed. some would say for the better and some would say for the worse. i can understand your confusion. when i started in this hobby as a boy, the athearn kits were 2 bucks or less but i was working for 90 cent an hour. accurail is still around but they are scaring 10 bucks a pop. and, you are still going to need wheels and couplers. bowser has gone overseas to take advantage of child and prison labor like most of the mfgs and rtr (ready to repair) seems to be all the rage. just like the gas stations when they found out that people were sucker enough to pay a buck or more for a bottle of water, they took out all the drinking fountains. almost all of the old locomotive kits are gone but the new stuff does run pretty well and the level of detail is amazing.
i am in HO (can't enjoy something i can't see) so i have no first hand knowledge of N scale but it is pretty much in the same boat as HO.
you said you had been in model building for the last 8 years so perhaps you can build what you want from scratch. unless you live in a major metro area, you can pretty well forget the local hobby shops.
i have so much stuff from years ago (unbuilt kits etc.) that about all i ever buy is paint and glue but i do enjoy a pilgrimage to Chicago or Denver occasionally where i can still find well stocked retail stores.
if your circumstances are different from mine then get ready to mail order. there are several good outfits on the web and i have had good luck with them. Walthers is about to put a roof over the entire state of Wisconsin (today milwaukee - tomorrow the world!!) they have a huge inventory.
i never took the plunge into DCC and still get by with a FM remote control system using rotary switches for block assignments but i hear that decoders are a lot easier to intall now in most locomotives. there is a whole section on this forum that specializes in that field and those guys can probably steer you in the right direction. beware of what the hobby shop owner tells you since the truth does not always serve his agenda and he may be trying to get rid of a bunch of overpriced stuff he is stuck with.
good luck.
grizlump (the grouchy german)
Freight car kits (and kits in general) seem to be slowly fading away these days. Some manufacturers still make freight car kits, but all US diesel and steam engine kits are practically gone now.
Horizon bought Athearn and MDC/Roundhouse a few years back, and immediately slowed kit production to almost nothing. A couple months ago, they stopped kit production completely. Athearn production is also in China now instead of the US. I believe the Proto 2000 freight car kits are gone now too.
Bowser/Stewart, Accurail, Branchline, and quite a few others still make numerous kits (although the Bowser steam engines are currently out of production). I don't think they're stocked like the Athearns were, but they're still around. I have some Bowser and Stewart kits, and have found that they're nicer than the Athearn BB kits (but Athearns were still fun).
I don't use DCC, but from what I've seen, almost everything comes with DCC sockets now. All the DCC wiring is also nicely colored, so installation in non-dcc ready products is still pretty easy (if you can handle a soldering iron).
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Accurail is about the only company that still makes rolling stock kits in the U.S. -- everyone else has gone to China and RTR (Ready-to-Rebuild).
There was a hobby shop in Tucson that had nearly 50 Athearn blue box rolling stock kits on the shelf until an e-Bay vulture swooped in last week and bought them all. I figure he's going to try and hawk them on e-Bay for 10 times what he paid now that Athearn has officially announced that there will be no more.
For DCC practically every locomotive made today is at least "DCC Ready," which usually means that they have a socket into which a decoder can be plugged. Digitrax, North Coast Engineering, and Train Control Systems decoders are all made in the U.S. of A. and can be had for as little as $11 or $12 each in bulk. MRC decoders may be cheaper but they're made in China and are extremely unreliable.
But you'll be hard pressed to find any locomotive or piece of rolling stock that doesn't say "made in China" on the bottom today, regardless of brand name or scale.
Even Atlas admitted in Model Railroad News magazine a few months ago that their products have all been made in China for several years. There is a factory in China named Sanda Kan that reportedly makes over 50 different brand names for U.S. companies, including all of the major brands.
What seems to be fading away are the economy kit lines. You'll still find many of the more advanced kits although you may have to mail order. Westerfield, Funaro & Carmenlingo, Ye Old Huff n Puff, LaBelle, Trout Creek Engineering, and probably others are still in business.
Enjoy
Paul
By moving to RTR, companies are simply responding to the market. They are going to offer the most of what sells the most and apparently, that is RTR. Accurail is still in the shake-the-box kit business. Last year I bought a few dozen Bowser kits through Micro-Mark. I don't know if they were liquidating that or whether Bowser is still making those. I really don't miss kit building that much. It had become a pretty repetitive and tedious task. I'd say right now my fleet of freight rolling stock is about 50-50 kits vs. RTR and only a few of my passenger cars are from kits. The savings on kits isn't that much so if I have to pay a few dollars more and not have to do the assembly, I'm all for that.
back to the fold Jeff. I have only been in this hobby for going on 5 years. Main change I have seen in the demise of the Athearn Blue Box engines and rolling stock kits and sound engines are getting cheaper.
Luckily, I have got all the rolling stock I need so the lost of the BB kits is not a big lost to me. But, I did enjoy building them.
Far as kits as a whole, rather it be model cars or train gear. My thoughts is kids have changed, why build a model of a 68 Road Runner when you can buy a game where you our Stealing one, I mean driving one?
Anyway, welcome back and enjoy.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Welcome aboard.
Yes, things have changed. You've only been out in the cold for a few years. When I returned to the hobby, my boxes of trains had been packed away in attics and basements for close to 40 years, so you can imagine how different, and how much the same, it all looked to me.
Yes, the Blue Box kits will soon be a thing of the past. I will miss them, but at the same time, I've found myself moving in the direction of more realism. I've built a number of Proto 2000 kits from Walthers recently. They aren't too common, and you probably won't find them in your local shop, but you can order them online. I find what I want, and then order it through my LHS. I have to pay sales tax, but no shipping, and he gives me a discount on non-sale items besides. Everyone wins.
There are a few built-up structures being sold these days, but most buildings still come in kit form. I have a lot of fun with these, as they are far more customizeable than rolling stock. If you are a real ki-builder at heart, then you may want to think about your scenery more than your rolling stock.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Indeed, Jeff, since you've been away a lot has changed. Much of what you saw in the LHS is the manufactuers' response to something that started about a decade or so ago. That is the division of the hobby into two distinct factions. One includes the traditional model railroad hobbyists, whose interests center around using their modeling skills to the fullest and creating beautiful, unique, layouts. The other group might be characterized as more or less the modern version of the Lionel/Flyer hobby from back in the 1950's, where the main thrust of the hobbyist is to own, collect and run their store-bought trains, often on more basic layouts. You'll see who's who reflected in the types of subject matter addressed on the various forums. While you were gone even the hobby's magazines, at least for a time, separated themselves into these two different camps, in some cases to their detriment.
Getting back to the question of kits, RTR and prices, many newer hobbyists consider buying the latest and best as a priority, even a hobby status symbol, with price being given little consideration. Not surprisingly, the manufacturers have been quick to pick up on this fact and have steadily been shifting production toward all RTR, together with ever increasing prices, to increase their bottom line. In spite of what you might hear, the demise of kits was not necessarily a response to declining interest in them, but rather a clever business approach to maximize company returns. Athearn kits were the latest to fully disappear and few here actually understand the circumstances surrounding that.
What you are going to find is that high end HO locomotives are currently about 3x to 5x more expensive than they were when you left the hobby, while RTR rollingstock is selling anywhere between say $17 to $75, compared to the under $10 you remember. Oh...and have you heard about "limited runs" yet? You're really going to enjoy that innovation!
While the bigger, mainstream, manufacturers target the "Dream It, Plan It, BUY IT NOW" crowd, there's plenty of kits and craftsman rollingstock, structures, vehicles, you name it, still available. But its nearly all produced now by smaller, or even cottage industry-type, firms that largely no longer advertise in magazines like MR. So, if you are interested in the classic do-it-yourself approach to model railroading, there are plenty of suppliers out there. You just need to look around for them. On the other hand, if you feel it's easier to buy than to build, there's plenty of that stuff too...only make sure your wallet is real full when you go to buy.
CNJ831
Well, it certainly looks like I have some serious things to think about before I just jump in with both feet. Looks like the railroad product manufacturers have taken the same approach as the model manufacturers have taken. Ship everything overseas and then when it comes back to the country it is 3 times higher than it used to be.
At least the scenery materials, track and buildings are still reasonable in cost. Thanks for all the responses. Looks like I know where to go to get my questions answered.