What drives me more nuts is going to Athearn or an online seller and only the PC worm logo Rio Grande units are left in stock. Maybe Athearn Genesis should have produced a larger number of Rio Grande units and a smaller number of PC worm paint overs.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Of course, there are these beasts. These were bought by Penn Central as trade-in fodder towards GP38s. However, they were in better shape than some of PC's own Fs, so were put into service.
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc721dr.jpg
http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc754_712_1648dr.jpg
They ran around like this until they were repainted black. Sure way to drive the D&RGW fans nuts LOL Seriously, the trucks appear to be silver (weathered to gray) in the second photo.
cudaken Riogrand, being stupid about trains as a whole, that kind of detail would not bother me. At this point, I really don't need more pulling power! Darn Stewart is now pulling 25 cars like there nothing behind it?
Riogrand, being stupid about trains as a whole, that kind of detail would not bother me.
At this point, I really don't need more pulling power! Darn Stewart is now pulling 25 cars like there nothing behind it?
No problem. It matters to some, and to others not. Actually most of the RIo Grande F's produced have been pretty close, the Proto1000 are the only one which are "off". The Stewarts are among the nicesst chassis ever made - originally made by KATO by the way.
I hate Rust
cudakenOnly thing that might stop me from buy another set? I found a pair of PK 1000 Rio Grand F-3's A and B powered (different paint) for $69.99 at K-10 Model Trains. Any one that wants a Stewart set for $59.99 PM me, K-10 Model Trains still has around 15 sets. Cuda Ken
Any one that wants a Stewart set for $59.99 PM me, K-10 Model Trains still has around 15 sets.
Cuda Ken
Ken,
Beware of the Proto1000 Rio Grande F3's. If they are what I recall, they are a phase version that the Rio Grande never owned. The Proto1000 have the chicken wire between the portholes on the side like some of the phase II style F3's. But Rio Grandes F3 porthole panels went from phase I (3 portholes with sheet metal between to phase 3/4 (2 portholes with F7 style louvers and sheet metal between). So Rio Grande never owned any F3's with the side details like Proto1000, if that matters to you.
Plenty of info on Rio Grande diesel paint schemes here:
http://utahrails.net/drgw/rg-diesel-paint-schemes.php
More on Rio Grande motive power, cabooses, and passenger cars in general:
http://utahrails.net/drgw/rg-index.php
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks for the up date, the PK 1000 at K-10 is that color schema as well.
Athearn has announced D&RGW F3's in multi stripe:
I like the Stewart's as much as my Proto 1000 F'3s. OK, I like my PK 1000 just a little better with them being Monon's, after all I am from Indiana and A and B are powered.
I have been run the Stewart's for around 40 hours now and will say they are getting better with some miles under there belt. The F9 is pulling 22 cars (counting the dummy B) with no real effort. I will guess it will pull 27 or so up my grade, not bad! I will try later and see what the max will be.
One thing I really like is the wires from the trucks to the PC board is much heaver than other engines I have. It looks like real wire! All so much easier to install a decoder than the PK 1000's I have.
Only thing I do not like is the LED headlight is yellow, but that looks to be a easy fix. Looks like the box that the LED plugs cover will flip open for the change.
Over all I pretty happy with the Stewart's F-9's. Only thing that might stop me from buy another set? I found a pair of PK 1000 Rio Grand F-3's A and B powered (different paint) for $69.99 at K-10 Model Trains.
IMO, the my Stewart F units are the best running engines I have, maybe only the KATO GP35's are as good! But no wonder because KATO made the original Stewart F units and the later versions have even been improved on when they were made in the US before Bowser took over.
Make sure to post before and after pics.
Boy, thanks for all the great answers and PIC's as well! The F-9 is pulling great and will be heading to the paint shop after I get some other projects done.
cudakenAs you can see they have black trucks. Some trucks where painted silver, right? Black trucks and fuel tank, just do not look right to me. Hope for some pictures before I start taking them a part. Cuda Ken
Hope for some pictures before I start taking them a part.
Ken, see if you can scare up a copy of Diesel Era, Volume 10 #4, July/August 1999. In there is an extensive article on DRGW F5's, F7's and F9's with lots of black and white and color photos.
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
Hi,
check this link out. Hope it is what you are looking for: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=33406&nseq=12
Hope it helps.
Frank
PS:Done a search on Railpictures.net and it came up with a number of pictures of F7's.
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
CAZEPHYR It is a nice looking model and a one of a kind. Does anyone make it with the silver trucks and top? I like the four stripe scheme since it is an early one. If the HP rating was not changed, it would be used by the dispatcher as a F3 for sure. Thanks CZ
Thanks
CZ
Yes, Athearn made a version with silver trucks and roof - its the 4-stripe version like the Otto Perry photo, same as that. It was offered first by Athearn in 4-stripe and then later in single stripe. So both are a few years out of production by now. You'll have to check Ebay or swap meets to find the 4-stripe silver roof version unless Athearn re-runs it some day. It was from the website: "HO F3A, D&RGW #5531 [ATHG2021] Announced 10/29/2003 Discontinued" so six years out of production.
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG2021
What I pictured was an Athearn Genesis F9M. The following was copied from Athearns website in quotes: "HO F9M, D&RGW/1 Stripe #5531 [ATHG22012] Announced 1/17/2006 Discontinued"
Athearn, using the highligher F parts, was able to copy Rio Grande's #5531 rebuilt F3A and model the major phase details of it being part F3 (roof squirrel cage DB fan and tall cooling fans) and part F9 (side grills and louvers). I picked up the 1-stripe because I model 1965 and later. the 4-stripe is 1961 and earlier.
The F9M had the same air grills as the other F9's, the Farr type. It has vertical slits rather than the primarily horizontal type of the phase I F7's. If you click to enlarge the picture, you can see its all verticle slits. The F3's grills were the "chicken wire" type and not retained in the rebuild.
I didn't originally plan on buying F3's of any kind and was going to start my modeling era after 1966, but I came across some great discount prices and now have the F3ABBA set and the F9M, which are all single stripe and 1961-1965 time frame. All the F3's were off the roster by January 1966.
The F9M in the photo has silver trucks but they were repainted black during the last year or two of its working life. Technically I should repaint them too since I'm not modeling the silver truck period which was more likely 1963, maybe part of 1964, the tail end of silver trucks.
riogrande5761CAZEPHYR That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture. It probably had several paint schemes over the years. EMD called it a F9A. I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade. Thanks CZ Yes, and as you can see it is the 4-stripe paint job which had a silver roof as part of its paint specification. The single stripe had black roofs on the other hand. EMD called it an F9M, not an F9A, at least according to Joseph Strapac's book.
CAZEPHYR That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture. It probably had several paint schemes over the years. EMD called it a F9A. I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade. Thanks CZ
That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture. It probably had several paint schemes over the years. EMD called it a F9A. I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade.
Yes, and as you can see it is the 4-stripe paint job which had a silver roof as part of its paint specification. The single stripe had black roofs on the other hand. EMD called it an F9M, not an F9A, at least according to Joseph Strapac's book.
It is a nice looking model and a one of a kind. Does anyone make it with the silver trucks and top? I like the four stripe scheme since it is an early one. If the HP rating was not changed, it would be used by the dispatcher as a F3 for sure.
Looking at the grills, they seem to be a Farr type of the 5531, where the model has the horizontal type.
Yes, and as you can see it is the 4-stripe paint job which had a silver roof as part of its paint specification. The single stripe had black roofs on the other hand. According to Joseph Strapac's book Rio Grande Diesels Volume 1, it was referred to as an F9M (the M must have been a rebuild designation).
riogrande5761It was an F3A and rebuilt by EMD to an F9m, but Rio Grande still considered it and F3 and it still had the same horsepower rating of 1500 hp, so it wasn't fully upgraded in the rebuild to an F9.
That is the one, but it had a silver top on it also in the picture. It probably had several paint schemes over the years. EMD called it a F9A on the order form I viewed. I am surprised it did not get the HP upgrade. When I found the picture and noticed the high fans, I knew that was a rebuild.
CAZEPHYR riogrande5761The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984. I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof. Nor silver trucks. Looking at the Otto Perry pictures, it would seem most of the F units used in passenger service in the fifties and into the early sixties had silver trucks at one time. Freight units had black trucks. The picture below is a rebuilt unit that was wrecked and was labeled F9A in 1954. You can see the high fans, but EMD lists it as a F9A. This unit has the silver trucks. The 5531:2 stands for rebuilt to F9A standard. This was done in February of 1954. http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00010909 The unit looks to be a F3 rebuilt into a ?? 02.54 3546:2 F9A DRGW 5531:2 1 . CZ
riogrande5761The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984. I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof. Nor silver trucks.
Looking at the Otto Perry pictures, it would seem most of the F units used in passenger service in the fifties and into the early sixties had silver trucks at one time. Freight units had black trucks. The picture below is a rebuilt unit that was wrecked and was labeled F9A in 1954. You can see the high fans, but EMD lists it as a F9A.
This unit has the silver trucks. The 5531:2 stands for rebuilt to F9A standard. This was done in February of 1954.
Yes, it would have only been the F units used in passenger service that would have gotten that special treatment. I remember reading an article about the Santa Fe, another RR famous for silver trucks, and how they had to be spray painted after each trip to keep them looking nice. You can see what a major maintenence upkeep that is! Same for the Rio Grande.
Oh you mean this diesel?
It was an F3A and rebuilt by EMD to an F9m, but Rio Grande still considered it and F3 and it still had the same horsepower rating of 1500 hp, so it wasn't fully upgraded in the rebuild to an F9.
http://photoswest.org/cgi-bin/imager?00010909
Southwest Chief It's possible that that the locos in that first photo actually have black trucks. That B+W photo is so washed out I couldn't verify what color those trucks are.
It's possible that that the locos in that first photo actually have black trucks. That B+W photo is so washed out I couldn't verify what color those trucks are.
Not only possible but most likely the F's in that B&W photo do indeed have black roof and trucks. Its a very washed out B&W photo and glare can give the appearance of a different color. I could only trust color photographs if someone wanted actual proof. The train in that photo was the Rio Grande Zephyr and while I wasn't able to ride it, I've been interested in it and looking at many photo's since 1984. I have never seen a photo of the F9's or the steam generator during RGZ era with silver roof. Nor silver trucks.
don7 F9 with one stripe and silver wheel sets and silver roof. http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771cwc.jpg
F9 with one stripe and silver wheel sets and silver roof.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771cwc.jpg
I'm sorry but the photo given above is not proof that a Rio Grande F unit ever wore a silver roof while in single striped paint. First, its a poor quality B&W photo and the appearance of the roof is most likely a reflection of glare off the corner of the roof. Second, that photo is of the Rio Grande Zepher and F9A #5771 never had silver paint on the roof during the RGZ era. I realize there is an exception to everything, but I have seen hundreds of photo's of the RGZ and never one showed a silver roof. The above photo would never be accept by experts as visual proof. I don't believe the RGZ era F9's ever had silver trucks or fuel tank as cost savings was important and that practice had been abandoned by around 1964. The trucks and tank in that photo are most likely black and there is the quality and lighting in the B&W photo, not to mention a little weathering giving them a light appearance.
Same F9 5771 without silver wheel sets, black roof http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771ags.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5771ags.jpg
As stated above, many of the F units did have silver trucks, if briefly, primarily for passenger service. The reason it didn't last long was due to the high maintenence and cost. Basically the trucks had to be repainted silver after every trip across the system, or every other trip. They look sharp true. Athearns F3A in single stripe came with silver trucks.
In the end, the modeler can do what they like. If its ones primary goal to be prototypical and to copy what the real railroad did, then you would be ok to have silver trucks on a single stripe paint prior to 1965 or 1964. There were a few F units with silver roofs after 1964, but those were the F's remaining in 4-stripe paint, like #5571, which even pulled the California Zephyr in 4-stripe paint ahead of a brace of single stripe F7's. (see photo in Zephyr's thru the Rockies - color pictorial of the zephyr trains)
Check third picture, I amended original post.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Same F9 5771 without silver wheel sets, black roof
F unit 5534 with one stripe and silver wheel set
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw5534jsa.jpg
Pics from the FallenFlags site
cudaken I am going to paint the trucks and fuel tanks, may take a crack at the roof as well. Thanks for all the answers and your folks time. Cuda Ken
I am going to paint the trucks and fuel tanks, may take a crack at the roof as well.
Thanks for all the answers and your folks time.
I don't think you will find any photo's of the prototype with single stripe paint and the configuration you wish to paint them.
As others have noted, paint on the Stewart is correct. The only paint you need to apply is the green patch under the front windshields. If you are in love with a silver roof, trucks and tank, get the 4-stripe paint scheme because that had those items. Trucks were also black on the 4-stripe but did have silver roof and skirts. Or, modelers license and paint them in a way the real RR never ran them.
Leave them as is. The paint is correct. I believe this particular scheme (single wide black stripe) was the last F unit paint scheme used by the D&RGW. Just do a Google image search of D&RGW 5771 to see the many photos of this particular paint scheme:
And take a look at these excellent high detail HO models from the Details West website:
So as you can see, Stewart is pretty much spot on accurate. Which doesn't surprise me. One thing you might want to add to your A unit is a nose anti-glare panel.
cudaken Tom, and other sorry I missed the fact they where Genesis. All so Tom, thanks for the detail answer as well. I like yours much better than mine I will add. Silver Pilot, I did a keyword search for Rio Grand F 9, Rio Grand F and Rio Grand it self. Found a few Black and White pictures but nothing that really helped. Cuda Ken
Tom, and other sorry I missed the fact they where Genesis. All so Tom, thanks for the detail answer as well. I like yours much better than mine I will add.
Silver Pilot, I did a keyword search for Rio Grand F 9, Rio Grand F and Rio Grand it self. Found a few Black and White pictures but nothing that really helped.
There are several photos, including color, on the Fallen Flags site
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/drgw/drgw.html
Ricky
Paint away if you like Ken, but my quick search yielded results that would argue otherwise. Most pictures of F units I could find had black trucks, and from what I could tell, black roofs as well. What are the numbers for your units? Perhaps we could locate a prototype picture.
At any rate do what you want, they are after all your F units.
-Cahrn