Well, looks like the BLI Q2 won't be released anytime in the near future, if at all...
So I might be getting back into O gauge with my brother, or even tyring out O scale.
I've been thinking about it, maybe putting a wide circle of track around the ceiling of my brothers hang out room, with the pool table and all.
Why not just 3 rail you ask? Well, recently I saw a huge long oval of track hanging from the ceiling at my local supermakert, but they were running G scale (#1 Gauge?) trains up there. I really liked the 2 rails you could see when looking high up towards the track.
So I figure, why not make something just as realistic except in a smaller scale such as O or S scale, although, I'm not really into S gauge, they don't have the models I want. Its a shame because S scale is the perfect balance. If only they would come out with PRR J1, they have one in brass, but its too expensive for me.
Putting my idea for my brother's room aside, has anyone here ever been into S cale or O scale two rail? Is money and space the only issue?
I have not been into O scale, but I used to run a G scale (live steam) layout in my garden. As with all scales larger than HO scale, space is a major issue O scale requires about double the space of HO scale - a 2´ by 8´ switching layout in HO computes to 4` by 16´ in O scale.
Atlas offers a nice choice of 2-rail locos and rolling stock at what I think are reasonable prices, though much "dearer" than HO scale stuff.
One thing I found out while working with larger scales was that the lack of detail was much more apparent than in smaller scales. Detailing your layout and rolling stock then becomes a must - don´t forget to model correct size bird droppings!
Would I go for 3-rail O scale? I´d say no, unless you are a nostalgia buff.
Sir Madog Atlas offers a nice choice of 2-rail locos ... at what I think are reasonable prices, though much "dearer" than HO scale stuff.
All I have to do is look at the price of a Atlas O scale loco and it's enough to scare me away from modeling 2-rail O. I've seen some G scale locos that are cheaper than Atlas 2-rail O scale locos.
... if you check the European prices for Marklin or Brawa HO locos, running into the $ 1,000 range, the $ 600 + for the Atlas 0-6-0 switcher appears to be reasonable....
Sir Madog ... if you check the European prices for Marklin or Brawa HO locos, running into the $ 1,000 range, the $ 600 + for the Atlas 0-6-0 switcher appears to be reasonable....
Seriously, I saw Marklins GG1 at one of my LHS' the price is $600! Why are they so expensive?
Thats like half the price of an MTH Premier Steamer.
Btw, you are right about the detail concering HO, I have noticed this many times myself. Today I saw a K-Line O gauge Hudson, and the detailing was simply terrible compared to several HO versions.
I have a Spectrum K4 1920s multistripe version, although its very light and entirely plastic, its far more detailed than most O gauge renditions of this engine, although K-line's version is very nice but extremely expensive for an O gauge engine of rather small size.
But after this MTH-BLI lawsuit buisness, O gauge or 2 rail scale have been calling me away from HO!
Its the durability and heft of the O gauge models that I love, not to mention the operational simplicity.
O scale locos of German prototype are priced at $ 2,000 and above, although their level of detail is just amazing. These are limited run, hand-made locos.
Prices like this are a killer for me and for the much cheaper G scale stuff, I just don´t have the space anymore.
Providing that space is not an issue, O scale can certainly be a a good choice, if you love scratch building. There are less kits and equipment available when compared with HO scale. For most of us, HO seems to be the right choice, in terms of space requirement, cost, availability and detail.
The MTH vs. BLI issue is a sad story and certainly detrimental to our hobby, but it should not have any influence on the choice of scale in which you would like to model. There are many other fine manufacturers "playing" in the market!
I have a bunch of 2 rail O scale equipment in addition to my HO scale stuff - On30 that is. Surely is not expensive as standard gauge stuff!
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Most definitely
A few years back the man in the red suit brought my son his first set of O-scale trains for Christmas after numerous discoveries of daddy's BLI locomotives and Rapido passenger cars just to name a few found in his toy box. When daddy confronted said little man and told him that these were daddy's he replied NO! my trains so I guess to a little person possession is 9/10ths of the law still applies. So after setting up set #1 on the traditional 4'x8' sheet of plywood it has now grown to a 12'x24' layout that is in an outdoor playhouse converted from a yard shed. I think a lot of us myself included look at the O scale or Lionel crowd as more the "Toy train group" I couldn't have been more wrong. These guys are some serious modelers and are as much into scenery and detail as any serious small scale modeler except they just need a lot more room. Check out the link below it's a great site for anyone thinking of getting serious about 2 rail O scale.
Hows this for serious
I was a high-railer for about 15 years - running 1:48 scale equipment but using three-rail track. A lot of folks don't realize that many items in three rail by Lionel, MTH and Atlas (in fact, perhaps a majority of items) are 1:48 scale models and not undersized "toy trains" like they remember from their childhood. Anyway, there are a lot of items in either 2 or 3 rail O that have come out in recent years. Take a look at the track, engines and cars offered by Atlas for example. An O Atlas Trainman diesel is a pretty good bargain. If you went to two-rail, keep in mind you'll need a much larger min radius than three-rail. I'd look at thinking small, using medium-to-small engines and 40' cars etc.
You betchem' Red Ryder!
When I hit the Powerball tomorrow night I'm going to build me a 3737.5 square foot train room and I will stop considering and start doing.
I visited a 2-rail O-Scale layout during the national convention in St Looie in 2001; every time I attend a national convention as I hope to do in Milwaukee next summer I always try to sign up for tours with 2-rail O-Scale layouts. I have seen some fascinating layouts in my time but this one in St Looie was FANTASTIC! ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Between two vision surgerys I had decided to move into O gauge being difficult to impossible to effectively model HO.
Two rail O gauge was where I was going to go. When I discovered the pricing and the amount of room needed for the equipment it's just not gonna happen. A thousand dollars for a road engine or something is just too much. Maybe one day but not in these difficult times.
I wound up drawing plans for On30 based around Bachmann's DCC and Sound engines. I have one depot, and three sidings drawn up on paper so far plus a Wye. All of that will be constructed starting in the near future.
At some point the Depot will see two rail O gauge nearby. But we will just have to see.
So there you have it. It aint O gauge two rail just yet, but On30 into the logging and mining is a start. The difficult part was demolition of the HO Scale bench work. Then again, not so difficult.
If moving to O scale, I'd only consider two-rail. Three-rail equals toys trains, but I've only been into model trains. I never had a Lionel-or-such train (due to parental benign neglect), so toy trains have no nostalgic value to me.
Mark
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
I did give serious thought to a combined 3 rail and On30 layout. Actually, more than serious thought - I drew up the plans for such a layout and started buying some equipment. I finally gave up because of the difficulty of finding 19th Century models in 3 rail O beyond the General and a few cars. And the space needed for reasonable structures and trees was killing me. So with tail between my legs, I retreated to HO and HOn3 as better able to accomplish the operations I wanted in the space I had. But every time I go to the LHS and see the On30 or the latest and greatest 3 rail O (some of it is the equal of 2 rail except for flanges and couplers), I start feeling weak.
2 rail O has always been out of the question for me due to the minimum radius requirements. And the gauge/scale inconsistencies of both O and On30 are irritants in the back of my mind.
Fred W
I myself am sticking to HO and will continue to help my brother with his 3 rail Lionel semi-scale layout. After giving it some thought, 2 rail O is simply out of the question, although I was considering a diorama to put an engine on display, I like the heft of the models, but it gets really boring when you can't really run something that cost you over $1,000.
And as already pointed out, the detail on high quality HO engines is far superior to the larger scales. Thats why many 2 rail Scale people love to weather their models and continually modify rolling stock.
Anyway, back to reality. I've got my MTH HO Powhatan Arrow car set on order, I can't wait till it arrives, although I am anxious to see what they actually look like after finding out that the pictures on the website are of brass models. Why companies do that is beyond me, BLI clearly showed you what you were gettting when they advertised the Zephyr cars. Is it so hard for MTH to simply post the pictures of the actual cars? What gives?
i nearly made the changeover a few years ago but then a lot of equipment for my favorite prototype started coming out in HO so i stuck with that. i went so far as to start accumulating track materials and some rolling stock most of which i peddled off at a small profit thanks to inflation.
i attended several O scale conventions and visited a lot of layouts. i was always impressed and could understand the attraction of the larger scale.
a lot of guys bring up the issue of cost but i never gave that a lot of credibility since an O scale car or locomotive requires 4 time the space of the same model in HO so i figure you can only accomodate 25% as much equipment you could otherwise cram on to a layout built in HO scale.
grizlump
I started in HO, dabbled in 2 rail O scale, and am now in S scale.
The chief delight of O scale is the size of the trains and parts when building a kit, handlaying track, etc. The problems are lack of steam engines other than brass and the amount of space it takes. An 18" radius in HO is 33" in O. While the size is almost double linearly, it is 3.29 bigger in area. Area is what counts in how much you can put on your layout. Many buildings are seriously undersized in O in order to be usable.
While the individual pieces cost more, you use less of them in O scale. An $800 steam engine in O doesn't seem so bad compared to higher end HO when you only use a third to a fourth as many engines. Of course if collecting lots of engines and cars is part of your fun you'll find O scale very expensive and limited in selection.
S scale represents a nice compromise between HO and O. The pieces are bigger than HO and easier to work with, but it doesn't require as much space for a layout as O. An 18" radius is 24" in S. Area is 1.85 bigger. Again there aren't as many steam engines as HO (again there's brass). Cost is half to 3/4 of O. There's less steam in S than O , but there is a good selection of diesels, especially for the transition era of 1950-1970.
Neither scale has an economy line like Athearn, Accurail, etc. So if money is a prime consideration, HO is better. Neither scale requires scratch building or even kit building except for structures - there is track, turnouts, RTR engines and RTR cars. S scale pretty much uses the same electrical/DCC as HO - the really low end stuff is too light. O usually requires beefier components. While some models are available outside the 1950-1970's era both scales are really good for 1st and 2nd generation diesel eras. Note that both scales have a lot of batch runs that may be a while (if ever) before being repeated - if you really want it, get it now.
Both scales also have a pretty fair amount of narrow gauge support as well. Again not cheap, even Bachmann On30 has been rising in price lately.
If you can be happy with the steam available or stick with diesels, I think that S represents a very nice step up from HO.
If narrow gauge or steam is your interest, then I recommend On30 - it's an earlier era with a pretty good selection of small steam. The pieces are very close to S in size (so close in fact that I have bought a few cars for use on my S scale layout). While not representing a U.S. gauge, it captures the flavor at a more reasonable cost.
Enjoy
Paul
I cut my "modeling teeth' on my Dad's 2 Rail O scale layout.I was fortunate enough to be allowed to attend the meeting nights with my Dad at the old Columbus O Scale club that was located on N.High Street at the Union Station complex.In fact I was made a " honorary jr member" by the membership.I was 5 years old.
I always perfer O Scale but,I never had the room..
But,know this.
If there was a nearby O Scale club I would sell my N Scale and remaining HO in a heart beat and go O.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Check out the "O Scale Traction" search at YouTube and the lack of a third rail in the videos.
Not all traction trackage is covered by streets, and a third-rail would be evident if there was one. While crowning the middle of street trackage is prototypical for water drainage -- Third-rail street trackage would require substantial crowning in the track middle using plaster or wood putty to make the street.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Sure I've considered it and as soon as I hit the lottery and can afford a gymnasium sized train room, I might just do it.
Seriously though, I've got too much time and money invested in HO to consider switching scales at my age. If I ever did, I would probably go to S rather than O. Switching to N would probably send me to the funny farm. HO is as small as I would ever want to go.
As far as price, I'm not sure if it's really that different once you factor everything in. I mean, is there anybody in HO who doesn't have too many locomotives?? A decent O scale layout could be run with 4-5 engines.
markpierceIf moving to O scale, I'd only consider two-rail. Three-rail equals toys trains, but I've only been into model trains. I never had a Lionel-or-such train (due to parental benign neglect), so toy trains have no nostalgic value to me. Mark
Check out this "Toy Train" layout??
Nice link Mark, no matter how many times I watch that it never gets old, I can't believe the detailing. 3 rail scale often gets knocked, but people have done amazing things with it.
Norm Charbonneau's 3 rail lionel layout.
Oh, my gawd - OH, MY GAWD!
I am totally awed - what detail, what sheer size! Who cares about that funny little rail in the middle of the track! This bloke is a master model railroader!
See, what can be achieved if you have a sense for detail? I just love it!
ME WANTS! (If I were a rich man ... )
Has anyone here ever considered 2 rail O scale?
Never for a second. HO can take up a huge amount of space as it is, and it offers the best compromise of detail vs space which is why its still the most popular scale.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Norm has a very amazing layout !!
http://norm.beesky.com/
[quote user="rjake4454"]
Yup! I am a convert and I am happy about it. You get closer and the models have bigger mass. Downside is that you are able to model less in any given space, just a quarter compared to H0. But then again it is a win as you may need just a quarter of rollling stock to use on the track. I am considering something that is equilant to a typical 4 x 8 feet and that is 8 x 16 feet. It will be a shelf layout with operation space in the middle. So far I have been collected the motive power and freight cars I need. When I get enough of cars, targeting right now three more. It will be time for track. So far I got a pair of U23b.s and 12 various 50 foot cars. on budget, if you target things right. I paid for each of the Trainman engines just a little more than what I would have for paid for a H0 equilant and I don't need a large roster as I would have if I should stayed in H0 scale. Freight cars, pretty much same thing and you can if you stay cool, find some sweet deals. Track is expensive, but then again in that given space I don't really need that much so in the end, I guess the cost will be same or even lower. Same thing with buildings but you end up not using that many as they are bigger than in H0. Vehicles, you could get along with toy cars and detail them to present the protoype colser, though most of them are slightly larger as they usually are to 1/43 scale.