EFFECTS of the worst model train company

[darth9x9]

The hobby as an industry should be thankful we don't have Tyco sets available through Toy-R-Us or the Sears catalog any more. I do have to commend Walthers (and Athearn to a degree) for stepping up to provide a 'better' introduction set to the newcomers of the hobby.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by krump

can't kick a gift horse, or something like that...

my intro to trains was a starter HO set (that I still have, circa 1973?)... my parents also bought my brother an N scale... we were thrilled with these Christmas gifts and knew that my parents, with a modest single income, had saved up particularly for these items. I loved the trains and was hooked right from the start. (my brother discontinued his involvement within the year, and went into the rockets - no longer busy with that either)

yes, my starter set was a "crappy" one, but I loved it, it served the purpose - basic intro to the hobby, brass track, no frills, however I recall that my dad and I had it running within the hour. Great memory! I still have the train...

I believe that the companies make a basic starter set for even the leanest of (crappy) budgets - to get your attention, give you the idea and the dream about a product (any product?)... it is not their intent to satisfy all of your ambition with that one purchase, but this "low end lost leader" if you will, hopefully leads to more purchases, additional accessories, etc - just gets you hungry for more. The same goes for most other products: other hobby items, scrapbooking, tools, automobiles, boats, houses...
how many starter homes are actually considered to be the first time buyers dream home, more likely something that got the buyer into the housing market... that's the way I consider the starter sets... and the cheap tools ( for example, I might need a rotary tool, but do I need to necessarily buy a dremel?) etc. You get what you pay for - as a novice model railroader the starter set might be fine, as a Master Model Railroader (my ambition) I may want something a bit more advanced.

cheers

Krump

That was extremely well-said. It sounds EXACTLY like my story. I think low-enders really do have their place. Sure, they are not as good. I still have (and run) my classic TYCO's, Bachmann's, and the like as well as my KATO"S and Athearns and have alot of fun with both!

[vsmith]

This entire topic can be summed up in one word:

TYCO

[Anonymous]

Most of the first train sets that we are talking about are tossed into the trash can sooner or later. The first experience with HO is a lasting impression for many and the Hobby is hurt by it. Lionel, LGB or MTH train sets usually run fairly well and would be better to get a kid started into the hobby. The cost for the larger sets is higher and that is the reason the cheap HO sets still sell during the Holidays.
The slot car racing sets are much the same quality and rarely last a month or so.
My first train was an American Flyer, which still runs today, over fifty years later. I have the American Flyer Northern also, purchased in 1955, which still runs.
My first HO was in 1969 and I still have the engines from that era. Even then, the hook horn coupler was on every thing you purchased and the operating results were poor. The only reason I stayed in the hobby was an intense desire to buy the NKP 2-8-4 for $64.95 in the Brass shelf. Not exactly a started set in those days, but I stil have that engine today.

[Anonymous]

Mark,
I'll try to bring that on topic.[:D]
Some of the inaccurate paint schemes were a little depressing if not down right discouraging.
For example one manufacturers PC locos were Jade green.
Back in the early 70s I saw PC locos with a variety of schemes. Black mostly, some Brunswick green. There were some with red Ps and some with orange Cs, but I don't recall any Jade green locos.
I had to live with an F7 in that color for a while, as it was the only one I could afford.

twhite,
I felt very lucky back then if I could complete 2 times around the layout without derailing, I just accepted that this is how it was, but kept fussing with the track anyway and really felt good when I got it to the point where I could run with only minor derailments.

[twhite]

Hit the wrong darned key on this computer again! Anyway, back then if HO stayed on the track, it was a miracle. I see some of the starter sets these days--bought my grand-nephew a Bachmann a couple of years ago, and he's been adding to it ever since, on his birthday and Christmas (with a little help from dad and Uncle). Some of it is sheer crap, but if you look carefully--especially in your LHS, you can usually find a starter set that is of good enough quality that you can add on with the good stuff later. I watch some of these starter set locomotives and flash back to my rubber-band Athearn and just grin and shake my head.

[twhite]

At fourteen I paid $5 for an HO metal Athearn reefer, a metal Varney flat car, a metal Ulrich gondola and a wooden Silver Streak boxcar. Bought it from a friend of mine who didn't want to be in HO, it was too small. Went down to the local hobby shop and bought a $8.95 Athearn F-7 in SP Black Widow with a rubber-band drive. At eighteen, I bought my first brass loco for $45, a PFM Santa Fe 2-8-0. Been going strong ever since. Back when I started, we didn't expect HO to stay on the track, if it did, we'd done something

[jrbernier]

In retrospect, we all understand what a good starter train set should be. The problem is that it is way to expensive to compete with the shrink wrapped train set in the local discount store. The same thing happens in the R/C field: All summer long folks bring in airplanes/cars they bought at the discount store to the local hobby shop to get 'fixed'. The LHS cannot even get parts for this stuff! The purchaser finds that he spent $50-100 for something that ran for maybe 10 hours, total. And now there are no parts available to fix it. I am sure if I got into R/C, I would look at the discount stores/mail order/internets sites and compare them to the LHS - And base my decision on price. It is just normal human nature....

Jim Bernier

[Mark300]

A variation on this theme;

Getting some real nice appearing, old rolling stock by Tyco/Mantua Metal 'second hand,' only to find the couplers are the old Tyco-NMRA nylon type. The cars feature metal wheels, metal car bodies, movable doors, decent roads, old but good markings (which is actually better than weathering), so overall they look good. However, the couplers are a real bear to replace and keep the cars balanced.

I finally gave up and cut the couplers off of the trucks. I attached new Kadee #5s to the underside of the car bodies jus' like on the real railroads. From a modeling and collecting standpoint this modification SHOULD make the cars more valuable and morph them from toys to models.

The point is; In getting back into this hobby, I found that 'NMRA label' on the boxes when I first received them to be a little misleading. Furthermore, I fould little help as to what is considered desirable until after I made the modifications. I do design for a living so I can deal with this kind of insecurity. However, for the 'newcomers' to model railroading, dealing with some of these EFFECTS (in this case couplers) can be a real stumbling block if not an outright turnoff.

Fortunately I guessed right.

Mark

[Mark300]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray Marinaccio


I just finished reworking a pair of Minitrix F-units.
http://www.the-gauge.com/showthread.php?t=10943

Ray;

A little detour on this thread - [#offtopic] regarding your #1665 restoration; What a marvelous variation on the boring PennCentral 'winding snakes' logo; doing the 'P" in pale tuscan is something refreshing that I've never seen before. Nice; the way perhaps it should have been done.

Sorry to go off topic,

Mark

[Anonymous]

Willy,
Your right. Aurora started importing the F9 (actually an F7) in 1967.
In 1972 Minitrix were imported by model Power. They were imported up until 1999.
Those Aurora and Minitrix locos were decent runners in there day, compared to what was on the market then.
I just finished reworking a pair of Minitrix F-units.
http://www.the-gauge.com/showthread.php?t=10943

[willy6]

Cjcrescent,
was my time frame right about it's production, and what happen to Aurora?I would assume they got bought out.

[cjcrescent]

Willy6;
Aurora did import N scale trains originally under the Postage Stamp Trains label. These were made in Germany by Trix. Still have a set in the original box. Can't comment on the quality as I am not an N scaler.

[willy6]

Please help me with my memory, Didn't the company AURORA, they makers of HO scale race cars ccome out with a train set called the Postage Stamp Train Set that was the forerunner of "N" scale?I think it was late 60's or early 70's.

[CP5415]

My parents gave me a Model Power set back in the late 70's. I was 10 or 11 at the time.
These were great as they took the abuse until the motors died.
If they got dropped on the floor they kept on running.
The effects from these cheapies didn't keep me from the hobby, other interests did.
When I did return to the hobby, by joining a club, information from several guys did tell me to stay away from Model Power, Bachamn & Life-Like except the Proto/Spectrum series.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Steve,

What a surprise it was to see your post here. When I was stationed in 29 Palms (1991-1994) I used to look for any excuse to get down to San Diego as I always made a stop at Reeds! Reading your post brought back lots of great memories. Hope business is going well, you certainly always had lots of customers when I was there.

Dave

[Anonymous]

The first US N-scale locos we bought were a couple of MP/Mehano GP40s, and yes, they were awful! Luckily at around the same time a Bachmann U36B was bought - this is still a superb slow runner, even if the factory paintwork is a little over-colourful (psychadelic version of Rock Island blue/white!).

I suspect the Baldwin Sharks mentioned in a previous post were made by Roco - Roco certainly made Sharks and FP7s in HO for E R Models, these are excellent locos (I have one of the FP7s and intend to buy one of the Sharks when I can afford it).

[Anonymous]

As a hobby shop owner, I get folks coming in with a non working junk train set they bought from (fill in the blanks) discount store, usually near the holidays. I will demonstrate the difference between what they bought and what I carry and almost always make a sale. It is a shame how awful some of this stuff is.
Most serious model train hobby shops will not carry any of these junky products.
Steve Bovee
owner
Reed's Hobby Shop
La Mesa
California

[cwclark]

A lot of my earlier stuff was tyco and bachmann which was about as bad as it gets in those days...i never did quit the hobby..(well except for that 4 year hitch in the Navy ..they wouldn't let us do layouts on the ship ) but being the hardheaded person that everybody says i am ..(I call it persistant)...I eventually found that there was better stuff out there than what i was running on my new layout...roundhouse and athearn were what kept me going and i got rid of the other stuff...never give up on something you dearly love!...Chuck[:D]

[BRAKIE]

Simon,I know of one Toys "R" Us that carries train sets..Of course its usually around Christmas time.

[simon1966]

The most likely place to get a cheap trainset now is the rather poor Model RR aisle at Hobby Lobby!

[BRAKIE]

Thankfully my Dad was a model railroader and got me started on the right foot.
However I do have a old MP RS11 that my late wife got me back in 77.This maybe crap to some but it still runs 27 years later..Of course I no longer use this engine.How many recall those smooth running MP Shark nose units?
Now,to answer your question..I feel many of todays modelers got their start with a cheap set so in my opinion I really don't think the el cheapos hurt the hobby in the long run( you returned right?)..After all you are talking about what most muggles(non modeling folk) calls toy trains for Junior to play with..Your idea of a high dollar highly detail train set will not sit well with muggles due to the price..You see its a toy to them and therefore shouldn't cost that much.

[Leon Silverman]

Many of the comments here center around crappy train sets purchased from toy store chains. Take heart, if a crappy train set is purchased today, it will be from a LHS. Toys-R-US and KB Toys sell neither train sets nor models of any kind (planes, ships, or cars). I needed some plastic cement and tried to purchase it from Toys-R-Us when I was at a mall and was informed that they had no plastic cemment because they no longer sell any model kits at all. I walked into a KB Toy store and noticed the same situation.

[Roadtrp]

My first two locomotives were 'N' scale Life Like standard product. I have run each of them about a half hour a day most days, and they are still running fine 9 months later.

My third locomotive was a Kato. Was it better than the Life Like? Absolutely! There is no comparison in detail or smoothness of operation. It also cost over twice as much.

Will I buy Kato again? Yes.
Will I buy Life Like standard product again? Yes.

They each fill different needs. If I waited until I could afford a fleet of Katos, I'd never get one. In the meantime, I can enjoy the quality of an occasional Kato waiting for the day when my Life Like stuff can all be replaced with higher quality product. I think sometimes you guys forget just how much money it takes to initially get a layout established. Once you've done that, it is far easier to upgrade your fleet to a higher quality product.

[rexhea]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jacktal

I did worse!!!I have a fine roster of locos,mostly new Kato's and Atlas's,plus a few nicely running Bachmann's and Life-Like's,but went for cheap trackwork.Atlas tracks are not bad but their turnouts are giving me all sorts of problems.I model "N" scale.

Jacktal,
I agree with you about Atlas turnouts (HO). The first thing I wanted to put down on my layout was my yard so I would have a place for my rolling stock as I bought them. I used #4 Atlas turnouts. Bad mistake!

After I got the yard in place and ballasted I was very proud of myself for achieving such an engineering task. But then, I ran a 4-8-2 light mountain straight through the ladder. The pilots de-railed and the loco looked like a snake slithering through the grass. Putting the Eyeball on the ladder, I saw why. The rails were warped in all directions on every turnout I had installed plus the ones still in the package.

This was a lesson about MR quality learned the hard way. It was very disappointing and made me question my decision about selecting MR for a hobby. But, I got over it and now research product lines more thoroughly and do a very careful mechanical and electrical inspection of everything before installing or using. (I have now switched to Shinohara turnouts. So far, so good.)

I do not believe this is something a consumer should have to do. The Model Railroading Industry should adopt a quality control program such as a variation of ISO9000 that insures the Chinese bolt matches the Korean's nut that matches the USA's specifications.

(In all fairness to Atlas, I had no problem with #6 turnouts and have had great success with their code 83 flex track)

[krump]

can't kick a gift horse, or something like that...

my intro to trains was a starter HO set (that I still have, circa 1973?)... my parents also bought my brother an N scale... we were thrilled with these Christmas gifts and knew that my parents, with a modest single income, had saved up particularly for these items. I loved the trains and was hooked right from the start. (my brother discontinued his involvement within the year, and went into the rockets - no longer busy with that either)

yes, my starter set was a "crappy" one, but I loved it, it served the purpose - basic intro to the hobby, brass track, no frills, however I recall that my dad and I had it running within the hour. Great memory! I still have the train...

I believe that the companies make a basic starter set for even the leanest of (crappy) budgets - to get your attention, give you the idea and the dream about a product (any product?)... it is not their intent to satisfy all of your ambition with that one purchase, but this "low end lost leader" if you will, hopefully leads to more purchases, additional accessories, etc - just gets you hungry for more. The same goes for most other products: other hobby items, scrapbooking, tools, automobiles, boats, houses...
how many starter homes are actually considered to be the first time buyers dream home, more likely something that got the buyer into the housing market... that's the way I consider the starter sets... and the cheap tools ( for example, I might need a rotary tool, but do I need to necessarily buy a dremel?) etc. You get what you pay for - as a novice model railroader the starter set might be fine, as a Master Model Railroader (my ambition) I may want something a bit more advanced.

cheers

Krump

[Anonymous]

Those crappy trainset locos were all I could afford at the time.
Not being one that gives up easily I learned to design and build my own drives.
Granted, some of the first ones weren't much better, but it led to years of enjoyment.
When I couldn't afford a turnout I hand laid one.
I understand that not everyone has this kind of determination and patience.
It would be nice of the manufacturers to raise the quality of the starter sets so as not to discourage people, but you know as well as I that as long as they can sell them as they are , they will keep producing them as they are.
I also think the Manufacturers see these sets as a disposable toy.
Buy one for a child at X-mas and throw it away by easter when the thrill has wore off.
If it lasts that long, due to Johny's destructive nature or from jamming it all in a shoe box and tossing it in the closet.

[areibel]

That's interesting, I had always assumed that the "starter" sets were like loss leaders, basically something to get someone interested and lead them to the higher quality stuff. I can remember a couple discussions on an S scale list where they were lamenting why there isn't a inexpensive starter set available.
I personally had pretty good luck with my old Tyco stuff from the early 70's. I still have a couple of the original locos (that still run despite my best efforts to "fix" them back then). I quickly dismissed AHM, bought some Athern, Roundhouse, etc. and had fun!

[jrbernier]

I posed this question to a Life-Like rep a few years ago at the National Train Show. My point was that Life-Like should dump all of the train set junk and spend their resources on the P2K line. He explained that the P2K line was really a small part of the overall train line, and most of the profits came from those 'junk' train sets. No company is going to drop a sure revenue stream just to be up-scale. Those junky train sets help pay for the design/manufacturer of our P2K stuff!
Now, I would love to see at least a P1K quality train set line, and maybe over time that will happen. If Bachmann or Life-Like were to dump the cheap train sets, I am sure a 'no-name' line of train sets would appear anyway. At least Bachmann and Life-Like have come out with the Spectrum/P2K lines - That is at least an improvement over what they sold 20 years ago!

Jim Bernier