alcodaveCannoli, Do you use any of the Athearn RTR N scale cars? I see them at the hobby shop and think they look great! I was just curious about them.
Cannoli,
Do you use any of the Athearn RTR N scale cars? I see them at the hobby shop and think they look great! I was just curious about them.
Dave, no I haven't actually purchased any of the Athearn N scale equipment yet. All my rolling stock at the moment is Atlas, MicroTrains and I think a few Intermountain? (I bought so much at the last show I went to, I forget ) For loco's I have Atlas, Kato, Walthers and Model Power.
I do have my eye on a four pack of the B&M Overland coaches at my LHS as they'll look reasonable enough for a B&M commuter train behind my Model Power 2-6-0 but these are actually Roundhouse products I believe.
Modeling the fictional B&M Dowe, NH branch in the early 50's.
I too received that e-mail and was not overly surprised to read the news. Like many I cut my teeth on those kits and really did enjoy assembling a few in the course of one evening. They looked good, performed reasonably well and really served as the basis for my rolling stock. But a year ago ago I noticed that my LHS hadn't restocked any of them and as the shelf space opened up it was filled with more RTR cars - which I purchased but only on a limited basis because of their cost. For me it's one thing to walk out with 2-3 kits as opposed to only one at the same cost even if the quality might be higher. Now I am not implying anything with that comment, but I would have continued to purchase the BB's had they been in inventory.
I too am afraid this will limit some people's ability to enter the hobby - or stay in it - and that is unfortunate. But it is a sign of the times as the simple things in life continue to disappear and we accept this thing called 'progress.'
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I too received the same e-mail from Athearn although did not read it until today, and was saddend.
Like most others here, the BB kits were my first leap out of the "toy train" segment of HO and into better models. I purchased my first BB rolling stock kits in 1980 from money I received for my birthday and was at first intimiated because I had never assembled a rolling stock kit but was quickly surprised at how quickly and easily it went together. The only part I've continued to dislike is the coupler pocket cover, I've always had many issues getting those to stay on, whether it be to hold on X2F or Kadee #5's.
My first BB loco was a UP decorated GP9 (GP7 as I recall the actual model was detailed for). Once I had it assembled and running, my Tyco, Bachman and AHM locos immediately were packed away in boxes or stacked on a shelf. From that moment on, I never purchased any other HO locos from that point on until the Spectrum and Proto lines were released. The were affordable and ran well.
While I don't model in HO any longer, I still have all my BB locos and rolling stock packed away. I've purchased my share of Athearn RTR products as well and while they do look great, I always loved the fun of putting the BB kits together. They will certainly be missed.
Now modeling in N scale, I don't have the pleasure of such kits any longer but will watch with interest how this event shapes the future of HO.
To me, the two most important features of any piece of rolling stock are the wheels and the couplers. Both must perform or the car doesn't get put on the layout. Also important is proper weight, but without good wheels, that becomes moot. I have a lot of old Athearn BB I acquired during the 1980s and 1990s but most of it is sitting on the shelf awaiting the upgrades. I have too many unbuilt Accurail kits to worry about those right now. As you might guess, the fine detail is very unimportant to me. I see no reason to pay a premium price for it or go through the frustration of trying to add it on. Give me a simple kit that I can put together with good wheels and couplers in about 15 minutes. Athearn BB used to fill that bill. Now it's Accurail. I'll also go with Atlas and Athearn RTR if I see something I like and the price is right.
I understand about the metal wheels I guess everyone doesnt need them,but once I started instaling them I could not stop! I like how they look and sound. Also the cars are more free rolling. On The modern Railbox/Seico style car kits the grab irons come as seperate metal wire parts unlike the molded on style of the older cars, also there are some other end detail parts you must install, It is fun on occasion, but i perfer to buy it RTR for the few extra dollars it costs. I do enjoy assembling kits and have had a lot of fun with the blue box stuff during the time I have been a modeler. I still buy accurail cars in kit form which are very similier to bluebox and have a few branchline yardmaster series kits waiting to be assembled so there are still companies catering the the shake the box market. The Branchline yard master kits can be found for resonable pices and are just a litle more advanced than bluebox for anyone looking for a fun kit to assemble. The branchline blueprint series kits are a step up on the difficulty scale from the yard master, but the result is good. I resenty purchased my firts Atlas Trainman Frieght cars, A Missabe Road ACF 3650 covered hopper and a three pack of Thrall 4750 covered hoppers. I had No iea how nice and affordable these cars were! 12 dollars for the sigle car and 35 for the 3 pack! very nice although I wish Atlas would use a better looking coupler than the accumate! it works but wow is that thing ugly!
alcodaveWhen it comes to price I think it is worth the extra. I can buy a 50' railbox type boxcar for around 8.50 and then have to add kadees couplers @ about 2.00 a pair,metal wheels@ about 2-3 dollars a car and assemble and paint the metal wire grab irons= annoying! Why would I want to do all this for when around 16 dollars I can get the car RTR with the scale sprung couplers and metal wheels plus a much nicer paint job and detailing then what was on the old BB kits.
When it comes to price I think it is worth the extra. I can buy a 50' railbox type boxcar for around 8.50 and then have to add kadees couplers @ about 2.00 a pair,metal wheels@ about 2-3 dollars a car and assemble and paint the metal wire grab irons= annoying! Why would I want to do all this for when around 16 dollars I can get the car RTR with the scale sprung couplers and metal wheels plus a much nicer paint job and detailing then what was on the old BB kits.
Sure I had fun putting these cars together when I was younger,but I have recently been buying only the the RTR versions. When it comes to price I think it is worth the extra. I can buy a 50' railbox type boxcar for around 8.50 and then have to add kadees couplers @ about 2.00 a pair,metal wheels@ about 2-3 dollars a car and assemble and paint the metal wire grab irons= annoying! Why would I want to do all this for when around 16 dollars I can get the car RTR with the scale sprung couplers and metal wheels plus a much nicer paint job and detailing then what was on the old BB kits. I grew up with BB, but I would gladly say goodbye if it means the money they save will allow them to invest in producing more well detailed and accurate models. I think the company has made a lot of good choices since the Horizon deal. For the shake the box fans why not just look to accurail for their kits which are still being produced?
Dave VollmerHonestly, though, compared to the newer ready-to-run cars (thinking Kadee, Exact Rail, Atlas, Athearn's Genesis, etc.), most of these well-worn Blue Box kits look crude. After all, the tooling was done years and years ago for these. Molded-on grab irons and minimal underbody detail have trouble competing in this day and age.
Dave, this is very true. But don't lump all the Athearn Ready to Roll products in with the "age" of the blue box line. Some are just assembled blue box kits, but many are newer tooling from MDC and/or have been upgraded significantly. This is truely a case by case issue, but if you have not looked closely at some of them, you may want to.
Sheldon
R. T. POTEETAnd until I read ATLANTIC CENTRAL's posting I wasn't aware that Horizon Hobbies had moved from Champaign to Chicago. Thanks for the "heads-up" podnah.
Oops! I knew they where somewhere there in heartland, not on the left coast with Athearn. I just remembered from my hobby shop days them being near Chicago. I guess near is a relative idea.
Any way, point still remains, I doubt anyone at Horizon has much to say as long as the money is right.
It may be about time to start thinking about how to fill a gap in the MRR hobby that will develop over time. Affordable kits may still be possible if the company is a small niche related industry or firm. The issue would be how to achieve the affordability factor. We do have better, more effective ways to create molds,dies or what have you with maybe fewer people--and still employ people here---in the local realm. Let us reason these things together.
Back to the woodshed people----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Yes, this is a real shame from the standpoint of history and tradition. I built quite a few myself as a kid.
Moreover, it will mean that at some future time it will be a lot more expensive to flesh out a large operating fleet in HO once the tens of thousands of Blue Box kits already in stores and at swap meet tables are picked through.
Honestly, though, compared to the newer ready-to-run cars (thinking Kadee, Exact Rail, Atlas, Athearn's Genesis, etc.), most of these well-worn Blue Box kits look crude. After all, the tooling was done years and years ago for these. Molded-on grab irons and minimal underbody detail have trouble competing in this day and age.
It's a shame they're no longer going to be made... but somehow I suspect the hobby will survive. In fact, this might be a boon to the Atlas Trainman line.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
I'm not sure whether I've ever looked inside one of Athearn's yellow boxs--what do they call them? RTR? which I presume means something like ready-to-run. Back when Custer was a cadet and I was still in HO-Scale these "blue boxs" were all that was available. I will presume that these blue boxs still hold what we used to call "shake the box" kits.
There are a lot of factors which go into a company's marketing decisions; undoubtedly Athearn took a good hard look at their marketing potential and deemed that it was not worth continuing to produce these "blue box kits." Some of these kits go clear back to Uncle Irv's earliest days in the industry and one of the contributing factors in their decision could be that the dies for producing some of these kits are literally wearing out--that happened to their RDC kits which, if I remember correctly, Athearn inherited when they acquired Globe Models back in the '50s--and they may have concluded--please not the word "may" in that clause--that the expense of redoing these dies is simply not a good investment of their assets.
Whatever the case might be there are many of us in the hobby who cut their teeth on these "blue box kits" and they are going to be missed.
And until I read ATLANTIC CENTRAL's posting I wasn't aware that Horizon Hobbies had moved from Champaign to Chicago. Thanks for the "heads-up" podnah.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
I highly doubt that marketing descissions like this one are made in Chicago by Horizon. Being long time hobby people, I would bet Horizon is smart enough to let the skilled management of Athearn make its own decissions in this area.
What Horizon has provided for Athearn is one price for all dealers, simple direct distribution, as well as direct to the consumer sales through their web site. Leaving Athearn free to "make the trains".
I hate to see this change too, but the hobby is changing, like it or not.
Again, for the fifth time this week, we can only hope Athearn expands the Ready to Roll line to include unlettered, unassembled versions of ALL products, with the many improvements that have been made to those products.
Milepost 266.2 Sir Madog Formerly, these companies were run by people who understood what made a model railroader´s heart tick. Now the same companies are run by the slaves of shareholder value. Horizon's an employee owned company.
Sir Madog Formerly, these companies were run by people who understood what made a model railroader´s heart tick. Now the same companies are run by the slaves of shareholder value.
Formerly, these companies were run by people who understood what made a model railroader´s heart tick. Now the same companies are run by the slaves of shareholder value.
Horizon's an employee owned company.
Perhaps so, but Horizon was traditionally a company closely associated with the model aircraft hobby and with no previous ties to model railroading in any fashion, exactly as Ulrich suggests. Who is to say if they have anyone on staff that fully understands OUR hobby?
When the model railroading hobby was at its peak, virtually all the companies were owned by practicing or former hobbyists and so were many of their employees. Today only one or two major companies remain with any such upper management relationship. That fact bears heavily on what one sees going on in the hobby today. Once upon a time the manufacturers encouraged and nurtured the hobby's growth. Today the main objective of the big boys seems to be to see how much cash they can get out of the hobbyist with their next offering.
CNJ831
Milepost 266.2Horizon's an employee owned company.
All the more reason to give them quality feedback on their decision making.
As an employee owned company they should be more sensitive to their market than a company that is driven solely by the bottom line of their accounting.
Again, be respectful & polite. Works better if you are.
Mark Gosdin
A very heartfelt thankyou to Irv. and the rest of the Athern Family. It has been one fine ride of which I am deeply appreciative.
I would not have been a Model railroader if it had not been (First) for Lionel and (SECOND) Athern Trains (Blue Box)
They will be sadly missed. Very glad I am a bit of a packrat and still have quite a few stashed away for a raining or winter day.
Johnboy out................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Sir MadogFormerly, these companies were run by people who understood what made a model railroader´s heart tick. Now the same companies are run by the slaves of shareholder value.
Maybe it is a sign that we are getting older, because we show a certain resistance to change. No, I don´t think most of us voicing their concern here are against change, if it is for the better. I doubt that Athearn´s move is for the better. Selling kits may not have earned as big a margin as r-t-r cars do, but it kept Athearn on the shopping lists of buyers and thus certainly contributed to the company´s marketing effort.
It is a bummer to see a product that has been around for so long disappear. I think just about every model railroader in HO out there has put together a BB kit. I like them and still build them, but I have to admit I have been buying more Accurail than anything else for the past few years. I think we are all to blame if we weren't buying the BB kits. After all, Athearn is a business that has to make a profit; if they aren't making a nice profit off the kits, then why should they still make them? I am saddened, but business is business. There are a few alternatives for easy to build kits for not much more cost than the Athearn BB kits. As a few other posters here have noted, someone will probably come forward and fill the gap Athearn is leaving in the inexpensive kit market (I hope). I personally do not buy RTR; why pay twice as much as a kit when the end result is the same? Beisdes, for me, assembling a model is what I enjoy doing and will continue to do until the cost of kits becomes prohibitive. Just remember, model railroading is fun!
Chuck
Modeling the Motor City
Well over 80% of my fleet is BB's. What am I gonna do from now on when the compulsion to expand my already-too-big-for-the-layout roster of freight equipment sets in?? There's some itches ya just gotta scratch! I wonder what Bachmann is making these days...
kog1027Oh, and IMHO Dylan can't sing.
Hear Hear! The biggest no-talent singer it's ever pained my ears to listen to. Couldn't carry a tune in a bucket even if he weren't always high as a kite.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
It is sad that the Kits will no longer be available. I would have rather bought kits than RTR.
Fortunately for me, I know of a hobby shop that has a whole bunch of them, Roundhouse & Athearn in all eras as well, at least when I was there last month. Unfortunately for me, they're about a 4 hour drive.
I bought a bunch, all for less than $8 Canadian ea. Still have a couple left to be assembled.
I'll have to make a pilgrimage in the spring to that shop to find more, if they still have any left.
Take my 4 yr old, let him pick out a few & see if he's able to put one together.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Allegheny2-6-6-6 You know the old saying when one door closes another one opens, how long do you think it will be before the light goes off in some marketing guys head telling him hey we have a market here with no one to fill it. Inexpensive model railroad car kits. I bet it won't be too long before some one like Walthers picks p the torch and comes out with relatively inexpensive kits very similar tot he blue box concept.
You know the old saying when one door closes another one opens, how long do you think it will be before the light goes off in some marketing guys head telling him hey we have a market here with no one to fill it. Inexpensive model railroad car kits. I bet it won't be too long before some one like Walthers picks p the torch and comes out with relatively inexpensive kits very similar tot he blue box concept.
I'm afraid that, based on what we've seen in the hobby's evolution over the past 15 years, as long as there remains a significant segment of hobbyists willing to pay almost any price for their RTR whatevers, you will never see anyone new come into the marketplace offering inexpensive kits. The profit margin with regard to RTR cars/structures/etc. is clearly better. Likewise, by eliminating their line of kits the manufacturer is guaranteeing themselves higher profits, at least in the short-term, by eliminating the expense of a secondary product line that undercuts their own RTR products. It also allows for the further raising of prices for their RTR products as there will remain fewer alternatives. Incidentally, it is my understanding that Accurail is teetering on going to all RTR, as well.
Very few hobbyists today know, or appreciate, just how much Athearn was a price governing influence in the hobby down through the years. With Irv's passing and control of the company moving into other hands, that stabilizing factor was largely eliminated, leading to an explosion in model railroading pricing that we've seen over the past dozen years, or so. I can only remark that I'm very glad I already have essentially everything I will ever need for my layout.
We are people, we don't have to change with the environment. We can, and do, change the environment to suit ourselves.
Again, resistance is never futile.
Oh, and IMHO Dylan can't sing.
Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you Is worth savin' Then you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin'.
Come writers and critics Who prophesize with your pen And keep your eyes wide The chance won't come again And don't speak too soon For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. For the loser now Will be later to win For the times they are a-changin'.
Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall For he that gets hurt Will be he who has stalled There's a battle outside And it is ragin'. It'll soon shake your windows And rattle your walls For the times they are a-changin'.
Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly agin'. Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'.
The line it is drawn The curse it is cast The slow one now Will later be fast As the present now Will later be past The order is Rapidly fadin'. And the first one now Will later be last For the times they are a-changin'.
The handwriting was on the wall when Horizon bought MDC and never continued the kits. MDC and Athearn Bluebox kits were my first upgrade from Tyco. One by one the kits I started with in the 70's have disappeared - Central Valley, Train Minature, Ulrich, MDC, and now Athearn. Only Silver Streak remains (under Ye Olde Huff n Puff). I no longer model in HO, but I picked up the last 4 Blueboxes my LHS had a few years ago - he has only carried RTR for the last few years. This trend is not unique to HO. S has seen the kits disappearing over the last few years and I don't think many of the old line O scale kits are around either.
Buy 'em while you can, we won't see their like again.
Enjoy
Paul
Kind of sad news for me. After struggling with some old Mantua and other metal kits back in the early 50s,I got my first BB Athearns (IIRC, under the Globe name) and found something more to my 8 year old skills. Of course, then the passenger car kits were composed of a floor, 2 sides, 2 ends, 2 dissasembled trucks, cast metal dummy couplers, a roof, and the window strip. Never able to find a cement that would hold them together under handling, but to me, they looked good.
Now, I'm going to miss a low cost source of kit-bashing components. Over the last several years, I've used their heavy flat to produce an even heavier flat and a well type car, a 40' flat and a bobber caboose body to make a transfer caboose, a torpedo boat and a 'B' unit Geep, a long Geep hood on an old AHM RS-3 to simulate an Alco re-engined with a 567, a couple articulated passenger cars, a Combine, a Roomette-lounge and a Dome-Observation, an FP-7/9, an F-10, and am currently finishing an FL-9 from a pair of F-7s. I've even converted ther 200 ton crane and the snowplow from the original steam to diesel-electrics using grillwork salvaged from other diesels. And that's only a sample.
Maybe thy weren't the highest detailed, but they are low-priced, and good enough for these tired old eyes.