PA&ERRI would start a thread where people could state their preference on whether or not they preferred sound at all
I have found the non-sound units never get run while the wheels get rolled off the sound equipped ones.
On the other hand I'll be the first one to tell people their wonderful "sound" equipped locos sound like tinny toys. There has to be some serious alteration of physics to get a HO loco to actually sound like a prototype. On the other hand if you consider what the locos would sound like to an HO scale ear drum ...Hmmm ? ? ?
The more I read this post the more it shows me how individualized our layouts can be. Why sound because YOU like it and thats all that matters. Why light up your layout or the interior of your structures, why run under table switch machine rather then ground throws, why have stationary decoders and toggle switches on your fascia, why super detail a layout an engine or a scene, because you want to. I personally like all of the above on my layout. Lights can be turned on or off, sound can be raised or lowered or turned off but if you don't have them you no longer have the option to do so. A model railroad is an expression of your slant on reality as you want to see it, a world created by you, your way. No political correctness, no right or wrong your way or the highway. In my O/P it's all good.
As most everyone knows, I am a NO for onboard sound, at least in the scale I model, HO. I have repeated my comments from that other thread (with a few additions and revisions) as to my reasons and thoughts on the subject.
I do see a future for layout based sound in smaller scales and I do think layout based locomotive sounds and other invironmental sounds can add to the effect of a model railroad, if done well. I may try some of that at some point. I do think bells, whistles and horns can add to operations for those who want to feel like the "engineer". That is not high on my goal list, but, localized layout based bell, whistle and horn sounds could easily be layout based in the areas most needed for such operation without the "noise" of the loco.
It has been proven that poorly reproduced or otherwise tinny, harsh types of noises do have a negative effect on your mood. In HiFi circles it is a known fact that one of the best measures of speaker quality is how long you can listen before becoming "tired" of listening. The many comments from modelers with sound about sometimes tiring of the sound and turning it off, is proof enough of its low sound quality.
I do think DCC is necessary for good onboard sound performance and control of features, so I do see the two as linked technologies.
I'm with list of others I know (some well known and well published) in the view that small scale onboard sound is just that, small, lacks bass, sounds like a 1963 9 transistor radio, ball bearings in the disposer, etc.
For those who like it great, I say go for it. But to my trained ears, after designing and building HI Fi speakers for years and listening to some of the best Hi Fi in the world, anything that is supposed to be real life, squalking out of two 1" speakers, is just noise. And after a few minutes, just anoying noise at that.
I will not bore anyone with speaker science, but lets just say the technology is a long way off. And I will admit, I don't own an Ipod, ear buds, or listen to music on my computer speakers, for the same reason - BAD SOUND. If you think any of that stuff plays music that sounds like music, than I'm sure HO sound systems sound just fine to you.
Rather than install sound, I've been known to remove a few. I have three BLI pieces that came with sound, gone, by-by.
I will say some of the sound I have heard in larger scales is fair to very good. Even as small as On30 the difference is amazing. But that's how sound dynamics work, it is a cube science. So what seems like a small increase in size, yield a big difference in sound.
The other issue, only a few seem to understand, is the "scale" of the viewing (hearing) distance in different scales. At 3 feet in HO I am 261' away, sounds, even loud ones are muted by invironmental factors in real life. BUT, at 3 feet in O scale, I'm only 144' away, much closer, the sound from the trains becomes the dominant noise. In large scale (pick one), I am now very close to the train by any standard, and noises coming from it are the exclusive focus of my attention.
And, going in the other direction, at 15 feet in HO, I'm now a 1/4 mile away, depending on lots of factors, I might not hear much at all.
I personally feel, that having sound in some but not all locos creates a confusing situation in the viewers mind and lessens the overall effect of the layout. So, if sound is not practical/possible in all locos, than that is another reason I would prefer not to have it. There are other "improvements" going on in our hobby about which I feel this same way, semi scale wheels and couplers being two.
So, if I was building in a large scale, I would have sound, but in HO or N, no thank you, and my ears thank you.
Sheldon
I wonder sometimes how many people who don't like sound have only heard sound thru a speaker that either wasn't properly enclosed, or enclosed / installed incorrectly?? It makes a big difference, as does getting the volume CV's set just right. I find the bell can be especially annoying if it's on for too long, so I always set that volume pretty low. The whistle or horn is usually set pretty loud, with the diesel rumble or steam chuff somewhere between the bell and whistle...loud enough to be heard clearly when it's near you, but much less distinct when it's not near you.
I always feel like poking my ears out after reading one of Sheldon's dissertations on sound. My untrained ears are clearly not worthy of listening to anything!
I quite like my MP3 player, and the stock sound system in my 07 Dodge Caravan sounds quite decent to my ear. So accepting that I have no taste, or basis upon which to comment, I will state that I enjoy my sound locos. I do keep the volume turned down, as I agree that too much of a cacophony from numerous locos can get very wearing. I also find that visitors to the layout love to hear the locos. I can;t say that I have ever noticed anyone get confused that some have sound and some don't.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I have 11 engines with sound and 10 running with out sound. I must admit sound can get on my nerves and I find my self running none sound trains about 70% of the time. When I do run sound mainly 1 engine at a time.
Far as cost, the Blue Line diesels sound pretty darn good, with motor decoders around $160.00. Best sounding engines are my PCM Big Boy and Y6-b. They did cost a lot, but great looking and sounding engines.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
One nice little feature I am adding to the new layout well at least I think it's neat and thats all that matters is sound modules for certain scenes. I got the idea from a fellow modeler but set mine up with photocells.instead of momentary push buttons like he did. I picked up a couple of sound modules at a train show cheap, one factory sounds and the other is a auto repair shop. I have them mounted under the bench work with a small photocell mounted in the fascia, when a visitor walks in front of that scene the sound is set off these modules have a timer circuit built in so if the person stands there for 2o min. the sound does not continue and yes Sheldon they have on/off switches. I too have a tin ear and it works just fine for me, I figure I have saved thousands upon thousands of dollars by not being able to appreciate the sounds that my dogs hear and I don't. Nothign on my railroad is real so why should my sound be any different.
If you've ever ridden in the cab of a real steam locomotive you don't have to ask why old engineers were cranky old men who yelled a lot. They weren't, they just couldn't hear no on/off switch there.
R. T. POTEETMiniatureferroequinologist Czar . . . I will agree to accept this awesome responsibility as long as it comes with some sort of regal headgear.
Would that headgear consist primarily of aluminum foil?
R. T. POTEET...every model railroad in existence will need to be examined to insure it meets the incoming Czar's criteria for compliance with his new standards. Those that fail to measure up will be mandated to be either modified or destroyed...
Incorrect. Noncompliant railroads will be subject to a Layout Tax, the revenues from which will be used to help other layouts acquire sound which otherwise couldn't afford it.
Back on topic...
My experience with sound is limited to what I've encountered at shows and on Youtube. I'll watch and hear diesel locomotives go about their business, with the only sound being the dull monotone of an idling diesel motor. No laboring on grades or with heavy loads, no change in the engine revs anywhere. How is that interesting or realistic? That sound is tiresome at best.
Admittedly, sound is nonetheless pretty cool, at least as a novelty to me. But I'm not going to rush out and convert/re-acquire my loco fleet to get it.
Jim
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
I model in HO, using DCC, and have begun to convert models over to it. Simply put, I enjoy it.
The conversion process isn't that difficult, and to me the sound adds a nice element. As far as it being one more thing to break, I don't know how valid of a concern that is, as other than the speaker, it doesn't have to be any more complicated than a standard decoder installation.
Cost wise, I just put a Tsnuami into an Atlas S2; the whole package cost just around $200, so it's not inexpensive, but I don't have 52 locomotives, so to me it's not a bad expense for something I enjoy.
I have six sound equipped locomotives, and to me they don't create a mess of noise when idling. Some of the decoders (QSI) have start up and shut down sequences which even help simulate getting or putting away power in the house, and once shut down, don't make a peep.
You do have to configure your decoders properly for real enjoyment, I've almost got that S2 hammered out where revs in tune to the work load, and I can even brake it (complete with squeal) simply by pressing a function key. To me, that's about as close as it gets in 1/87 scale.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
I've noticed an odd thing. When the loco is close to you ,its loud ,and when its far away its quiet. The loco across the river is silent and appears to be moving about 5 mph. When you're close its loud and is tearing along at maybe 200 mph.
If you're 6' tall and your layout is 3' hi, then your ears are around 250 scale feet from the engine if you're standing normally.Consider the volume of the prototype 250' away. BILL
A few more thoughts, a few clarifications,
There is no such thing as "perfect" sound reproduction. Even a $10,000 set of speakers are not "perfect" and listening room conditions effect the results of ANY playback system.
Every person has their own threshold of good sound vs bad sound. My testing of Hi Fi speakers as shown this to be an absolute truth.
For me, so far, the threshold of good onboard sound is O scale and larger. Or maybe an HO F7 dummy B unit with a bass can filling the whole loco. And I will say again, In G gauge, I think many of the sound systems are very good.
For me it is a matter of time/money invested vs improvement in model viewing/operating experiance. Sound costs too much, takes too much time and effort to install, and would require a more expensive control system to operate, for the quality of sound that is currently possible. AGAIN, AS IT RELATES TO ME, and the 100 non sound, non DCC locos I allready own and am happy with.
The combination of sound quality issues and my existing loco fleet make layout based sound a better route for me to pursue when some other projects are complete.
I agree sound is here to stay, and I expect we have just seen the begining of the technology in both sound and control. And I likewise understand that lots of people are happy with the current offerings and are having fun, and I have said "go for it"
When it comes to music, I know I am outside the mainsteam. I still prefer to listen to my 1500 mint condition vinyl records with their warm and natural analog sound. Building Hi Fi speakers and collecting vinyl records is a hobby I have been in almost as long a model trains. I designed and built my first speaker system when I was 16. When the home theater or music is played here, it is through a matched five speaker system I designed, built and marketed 15 years ago. Not as compact as a Bose system, but not as big as you might think and way better sounding.
And, I am a person who prefers the company of a few rather than a crowd, I like time alone, I like the quiet. I don't play the TV or radio just to have "noise" in the room, I don't like loud parties or bars, especially sports bars with 25 TV's blasting. And so I don't "need" additonal noise in the train room either. And would likely consider sound of any kind more of an effect for visitors rather than for my own enjoyment.
My two favorite buttons on my Digitrax controller are the f2 whistle/horn and the f8 mute. I have about 14 or 15 engines, all dcc and out of that number around 6 are non sound. I've found that I had just as soon run them as one of the sound locomotives. There is an exception though (isn't there always), when I have operating session here, having sound does add a great deal. We usually knock off points if an engineer goes through a grade crossing without a warning horn or whistle. He doesn't have to do the 2 loooooooonnngggs a short and a looooong. An abbreviated version will do nicely, thank you. Same in the yard. We don't make the yard engineer ring his bell every time he makes a move, but a couple or three little dings does add a little salt to the soup.
My Bachmann Consolidated is set to automatically give the correct toots when starting to move in forward or reverse. They're short and to the point.
But, when I'm in the layout room alone, I just as soon have no sound turned on.
Jarrell
I confess that at the club, I enjoy the gurgling and snapping of the idling Geeps, and it does sound cool when you rev them up to start a consist rolling. But that's at the club, where the layout is vast, and the room itself is huge. The trains are also HO, so the speaker size is a little better.
At home, I've got N scale, and I'm perfectly content to "run silent, run deep"... I've run sound engines in N, and it's kind of fun, but the cost/benefit quotient just isn't there. Like my prototype, I like to be completely flexible with my motive power, so you won't find any dummy B units to carry bigger speakers, nor will you find 2 or 3 locos permanently MU'd so one of them can carry a sound board.
Plus, my man cave comes complete with a Technics rack system, circa 1983, and lots of vinyl, so I've got plenty to listen to other than tinny little locomotive sounds.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
jbinkley60 As for the price, I'd say $500 is a bit high. The most I have ever paid for a factory installed unit is $230 and for the ones I've upgraded myself, the cost is slightly less. I'd plan on $100 or so to be the average upgrade cost if you include the decoder, the speaker and enclosure costs (assuming a full sound, light and motor decoder).
As for the price, I'd say $500 is a bit high. The most I have ever paid for a factory installed unit is $230 and for the ones I've upgraded myself, the cost is slightly less. I'd plan on $100 or so to be the average upgrade cost if you include the decoder, the speaker and enclosure costs (assuming a full sound, light and motor decoder).
If you look through MR product reviews it seems the typical price for an upgrade DCC sound decoder is around 100-110 bucks, and as mentioned thats with the decoder, speaker, and enclosure. The problem comes down to whats popular. As said you can find a decent factory equipped sound locomotive in HO for around $250, I find the ones that are 400 to 500 bucks are the high end ones that make 32 different sounds in DCC and make 12 different sounds in DC, depending on how you actuate the throttle (one such thing was a very quick and high acceleration move with the throttle made the horn blow, the opposite made the bell ring). BLI's even have a little seperate black box that gets wired in so you can control all sound fuctions of a decoder in DC. But as I said, the dual mode DCC/sounds are more expensive.
Brass need to come down in price too. The current issue has a small mention of an all brass Baldwin AS-6-16 and even available in MILW paint!!!! That is, if you have 950 smackers.
mononguy63R. T. POTEETMiniatureferroequinologist Czar . . . I will agree to accept this awesome responsibility as long as it comes with some sort of regal headgear. Would that headgear consist primarily of aluminum foil?
It's too late for the foil, they have already gotten inside....
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam mononguy63 R. T. POTEETMiniatureferroequinologist Czar . . . I will agree to accept this awesome responsibility as long as it comes with some sort of regal headgear. Would that headgear consist primarily of aluminum foil? It's too late for the foil, they have already gotten inside....
mononguy63 R. T. POTEETMiniatureferroequinologist Czar . . . I will agree to accept this awesome responsibility as long as it comes with some sort of regal headgear. Would that headgear consist primarily of aluminum foil?
I don't care; just so the headgear clearly identifies me as the Great Poobah of Miniatureferroequinology. I am reminded of a joke which it would be inappropriate to post here but the punch line goes "Recognition! That's what I want! Recognition!"
Let me reflect here on the issue at hand: like Atlantic Central I (currently) reject sound for N-Scale simply because all of the (scale) sound which I have been exposed to is bad sound and I will not expend my money on bad sound. The main problem I perceive to be one of speaker dynamics; if technology were to improve those dynamics and I found that the available sound was no longer repulsive to my hearing I will probably make (at least an experimental) investment in sound!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Looking at some of the posts proves it comes down to personnal preferance. Having messed with sound equipped loco's on the display track at the LHS has gave me a definitive lust for sound, although I live in an apartment with little spare room so I'm also left with the taste of N scale on my tounge.
I fully believe in prototypically running a layout. But super-realism can be enflammed. I love the sound of the prime mover, bell, and horns. If there is a coupler crash that's cool but hitting that button every time a car is coupled on would get tiring even for me. I'm more involved with the foreground noise, the as mentioned engine sounds, bell, horns, and I'm less involved with background noise, coupler crashes, air pumps, air cycling, sander operating, track clicking, crew member's yelling, conductors calling "all aboard!!"
Now with steam there is more I consider foreground noise including chuffs matched to wheel rotations, steam cylcling, and there's this one little valve that IIRC lets off steam up to a certain speed. It's down by the cylinder I do believe, I know the last few steam engine previews of MR talk about it and make it sound off for example in there video reviews.
On the other hand though if I'm watching a prototype work I'm listening to every little peep and squeek made, even if the air lines cycling usually catches me off gaurd and gets me in the air a few inches.
Sound, yes.
I was impartial to sound until somewhat recently. I had a few sound equipped steamers, BLI and a Proto switcher. I found the sound to be a bit of a novelty, the engines are all about three or four years old.
This summer I was given a Bachmann 4-6-0 Spectrum with the Tsunami decoder. Well, I could not believe the difference in sound from the earlier units and in addition to the sound I am amazed at the motor control of their DCC sound decoder. There sure is a major difference in the quality in just a few years. I can imagine that in a few more years the sound will be even better.
I have since acquired a few more of the sound equipped Spectrums.
Out of perhaps a dozen locomotives that I might run on my layout, I have four equipped with sound. All are self installed, three Sountraxx LC series (two diesel, one steam) and one Tsunami (diesel). I'm pleased with all of them, but expecially with the Tsunami I just installed two weeks ago.
My layout is based on a shortline operation, so usually only one or two engines will run on the layout at any given time. In my case then, there is little chance the sound will become overwhelming. However, I have found recently that with two sound units on the tracks at one time, they both seem louder than they should be, so I have dialed the volume down considerably on them all.
For the future, I will be installing sound in more engines, but probably never in all of them. For instance, I do not plan to intall sound in locomotives from neighboring railroads that only appear at the interchanges. This way I can differentiate between the stars of the show and the supporting cast.
So, as with all things, some is good, more may be too much.
Tom
I agree completely with Driline and could not have stated it better! My Broadway Limited Paragon II J/E Hudson sounds and works fantastic, for example. Less than half of my locos are sound equipped and although I have spent some time and learned a great deal retrofitting a speaker, sound chip, etc.--I would agree that the factory built sound equipped locos far and away are the best. I don't plan to do any more retrofitting either....
Sound is a wonderfull addition, if its your cup of tea. All of my life, I have heard both diesel and on a daily basis now, steam. I model in HO and with DC, and have for the past 47 years. I have heard most of the sound systems on the market. I have heard some realy nice ones for diesel, in particular EMD. The HO steam that I have heard is very toyish. Remember I'm refering to HO scale. When you listen to a real steam locomotive, it ain't the same. There will come a day, in say 5-10 years when manufactures will get it right, but not yet. These comments refer to locomotives with DCC. When you run these locomotives that try to have sound on DC, the results are even worse. As Kosmo noted, the sound can become annoying. In my opinion thats because the model is too loud, and in reality, no two locomotives sound alike.
I have close to 80 locomotives, and I'm very pleased with each one of them. Even if I was given new replacement locomotives with sound, I would pass. Its quite alright with me, that there isn't any sound eminating from the locomotive. I know what the models counterpart would sound like. I get to hear things like the sound of metal wheels going over rail joints, the sound of the motor and how its working, or on occaision the sound of a wheel that has come off the track that will lead to a derailment. I can carry on a conversation with another person and not be interupted. Another point is that in a steam locomotive, the sound and the decoder are more often than not in the tender. It has to be, there isnt any room in the locomotive itself. Well this reduces the locomotives ability to pull cars because a portion of the tractive effort goes into just pulling the locomotive and tender.
Kosmo also brought up another real problem that will occur in time. That is when the system fails, (and it will, after all, it was built by man, and we aren't perfect) the costs will be high ether for a new locomotive or to get the old sound fixed.
Cass Shays
I for one like having sound in steam locomotives but seeing as I only model steam I have no diesels with sound. My last and only diesel with sound was an Intermountain FP-7 and I was not all that impressed with it. Seeing as it did not fit my modelling theme I sold it.
I have heard a few factory sound equiped steam locomotives and found some sound good and others do not. Seeing as all my steam roster came with NO factory sound it means I have had to do my own installs. Also seeing as I model the Canadian National around 1958 it means 6 of my 8 locomotives are brass.
Before doing any install I test a number of different speakers. My choice of sound decoders is the Soundtraxx Tsunami. Both the regular and the micro. My choice of speakers depends on the tender size and how big a speaker I can fit in it. The bigger the better. All of my installs have speaker inclosures as I find I get better sound quality with them over using the whole tender shell as the inclosure. I recently added sound to my Van Hobbies CNR J-4-e Pacific. Seeing as the tender is not all that big I went with a micro tsunami medium steam decoder in the boiler. In the tender I installed a 28x40mm speaker with a custom made inclosure. The sound exits the tender floor through a pattern of holes I drilled and the speaker takes up about 75% of the room in the tender. The sound is nice and clear with no rattles or bad vibrations.The whistle, bell and the chuffs are nice and clear and crisp. My master volume is set to about 40-45%. Any higher and I find the sound is too loud. I have done two of my other brass locomotives as well and they also sound great. I also have a Proto Heritage 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 switcher that I installed a Micro Tsunami and a regular Tsunami in. For these I had no choice to use the tender shell as the inclosure but I did everything I could to make sure the shell was well sealed when mounted and they sound great as well. Both of them got 20x40mm speakers.
Right now I have a brass CNR 4-6-0 and a brass CNR 4-8-2 I will be adding sound to as well. Right now they are both getting a tune up to their drives as well as can motors and NWSL gearboxes. I make sure all my locomotives are smooth runners before adding sound as if they are not it will only mean frustration in the end. In short it does no matter if it is a plastic locomotive or brass. With some carefull work, planning and the right speaker setup having sound can be real enjoyable.
Wayne Reid
I haqve one sound unit,which I picked up at a VERY good price.I run on straight DC. The instructions say that the sound will operate on DC but only at full volume. Also only the prime mover sound would operate on DC. I would have to buy a DCC box to control the volume and operate the additional sounds.I have stated before that my layout consists of only two parellel straight tracks with a crossover. All I hear is the starter motor warming up,then the prime mover begins to kick in.Just when the prime mover gets warmed up,I have reached end of track aqnd have to shut it off. I triede turning the power down until the unit stopped moving,but then the reverser switch on the power pack doesn't work.I have to shut the power off completely. It is frustrating,because all I can ever hear is the starter motor constantly whirring to start the main engine. In my case,sound does not work.
I prefer both. At home, the sound is turned down by about half, and i further adjust bells, horns, air let-off, etc... so it doesn't get annoying. With our modular club at shows, hoever, everthing is full blast. It's also usually in a large hall, so the sound is just right in there.
I also enjoy running engines without sound, especially at home. I am equally impressed with a silent runner just as I am with a stellar sound system.
John
I started adding sound to my n scale many years ago and generally regretting the decision to do so for reasons everyone knows; small speakers, small dynamics, it just sounded awful for the best part. BUT... I could see that if it ever worked well, then the added dimension of sound was a move towards realism. I've moved up to HO so that I could pursue sound (plus a new house with a train room big enough!), and have a roster of 86 locomotives, 72 of which have sound; only 21 of which came factory equipped.
I've been busy installing Tsunamis (my preference) in brass steam and diesels, Atlas Classics, Proto 2K, Athearn Genesis. I don't regret this at all, nor mind spending the time on each project working out how best to install the speakers, baffling etc. Nothing sounds any worse than the factory installed units.
I fully agree with all who made the comment "...turn down the sound level to 50 - 60%" . Think about the dynamics of scale. The model's volume is not supposed to sound like your next to a real live loco. Though it's subjective, I like to hear the model when it's in eye view only and not running around the whole layout!
Regards the quality of sound decoders:
1. MRC, I have replaced the Genesis MRC installed decoders with Tsunami. Notably my Challenger now sounds and runs superb. That factory installed MRC sound had always driven me crazy. I would never buy MRC Prodigy again unless I lost my job and had to count my pennies and didn't need a large range of variables to play and tinker with.
2. Digitrax Soundbug, only bought 2 of these for a Kato and Athearn RTR SD40-2. Like MRC, I think these are targeted for the $ conscious modeller. I was not happy with the functionality provided nor the level of sound I got out compared to the same installations with Tsunami and the same speaker/enclosure..
3. QSI Revolution. I'm having a hate/love relationship with these. So sophisticated, so flaming complicated to program as the documentation available is .... well you try find it. Not wanting to have to purchase their proprietary programmer, even with DecoderPro, I'm looking at a lot of CV's which I don't fully comprehend how I'm supposed to set to get that light to do what I want. In comparison it makes the Soundtrxx products a breeze to understand and program. As the QSI is a little more expensive (and every one I've purchased (4) has been faulty and sent in under warranty), I'll stay away from them now.
4. Soundtraxx Tsunami. Love 'em. I've had a few that have gone back under warranty, namely the first run of Atlas replacements, buy aside from that I find these a great deal. Easy to adjusts functionality even if reading from them can be hit and miss. Most of my fleet has them.
That's my 15 sec worth.
Hello PA&ERR;
Let me first give you my background and opions regarding sound or not, then let me address some of your concerns regarding the use of sound and see if it may help you to re-consider....
I'm not sure from your posting wether or not you have steam, diesel, or both... I am 70 years old and have only steam, (mainly because of the era that I have chosen). In fact I have over 150 HO brass engines, some almost as old as I am, and I have installed around thirty sound decoders so far... Brass engines almost always need re-furbishing, such as refitting with can motors, maybe re-gearing, painting, etc. So while I have them apart I will install sound decoders.
So here's my first point, it's in regards to your concern about something else going wrong and shelving a $500 engine... So far I have had NO sound decoder failures once installed and checked out.. This is important since dis-assemblying a brass engine with decoders can be a real pain in the *** .... I also install engine headlights, separate marker lighting, fire box flicker, and tender lighting where appropriate. I suspect that any sound decoder failure from a factory installed decoder is from your command system, or a ratical short.. Failures from your own installment are more likely from an internal short of the speaker wires, (knocks out the internal amplifier), or motor isolation shorts, (corrupting the decoder itself).
My second comment, is in regards to your valid comment about too much engine noise at a busy yard. I can still remember the locomotive yard in Lackawanna, NY where I grew up, and the tremendous sounds of so many steam engines hissing, growling, and chuffing... So for my modeling around a roundhouse and servicing area that's music. However, you are right about having too much sound, too loud... So, modelers need to have all of their decoders under 'VOLUME' control. No engine should be heard across the layout, there are sound controls for every single output an engine makes on all the popular sound decoders. SoundTraxx and QSI, to name a couple, have 16 bit processors in them allowing unlimited sound tayloring. If all else failes simply turn the sound decoders 'OFF'.... All good DCC systems allow the decoder sound effects to be turned off.
Finally regarding your last comment about speaker limits and their outputs... You can buy the best sound decoder on the market and make it sound like crap if you don't place a tremendous thougt into the speaker and its cabinet... All speakers have polarity, and all speakers must be enclosed properly, and not all speakers are interchangable with all sound decoders, (i.e., there are 8, 32, and 100 ohm decoder systems). However it's true for our HO modeling, there will always be speaker size problems with low frequencies, but even so, the chuff comes across very well.. I do admit that a little more low sounding chuff for my 2-6-6-6 Alleghany would be desireable...
In summary, locomotives come alive with sound, I have installed several sound decoders in some of our club's diesels, and to hear the rev on an engine when applying initial power, or when the sound slightly increases while climing a grade, the members love it... And all of our individual locomotive sound levels are all set low...
Bob...
I'm of two minds about sound. When I'm running on my club layout, which usually involves towing a train around a racetrack oval, I like sound, whistle blowing and bell ringing and all the other effects. When I'm doing switching or setouts and pickups on my own layout I have no use for sound equipped locos that need lots of voltage to start moving and are hard to control and stall frequently. I wonder if some manufacturer will eventually produce a sound equipped locomotive that will start moving smoothly and creep reliably and reverse direction without undue delay and the need for everything to "reset". And, it would be nice if the technology was a little more "bullet proof". I've had a circuit board burn up and a sound system go on and off. In fact, only one out of three sound equipped engines I've purchased new has given no trouble which doesn't inspire confidence.
Hi Jim; You're really getting jyped.. Are you using sound decoders with DC or is your system DCC... You should not experience any increase in voltage, control problems, nor stall frequently when using DCC, especially on a simple oval track structure... That's actually one of the advantages with installing DCC systems. If you have DCC are you aware of all the Configuration Variables (CVs) made available to you for controling engines..?? In fact it sounds like some of them need changing since you have undue delays... Even with a really bad motor, you should have smooth starts, good creep and reverse movements. However, that being said, a really bad engine motor or drive system does kill all the goodness out of any decoder, especially sound... And if the motor draws more current then allowed by you decoder, the decoder will act strange or 'burn-up'...
Well, my pcm Y6b is sound and is just great. Sound gives you feedback how the engine is running.
I can understand at the club not horn blowing all the time doing switching. Turn down the sound, but when open house happens, let it all hang out.
The PCM Y6b the sound is tied into its operation, it doesnt just start going the secong you jack the throttle up, it goes thru some sound routines like its getting ready to move like pushing the reverser and so on, then it gets going. Does the same when you go to reverse. And when it powers it does some hard chuffing. This engine crawls on the very first notch up on the throttle. My plans is to have it hauling heavy coal drags up long mountain grades and having it chug hard at slow speed up a grade adds to the drama to the run. Just listen to Thunder on Blue Ridge by O Winston Link.
I hope you can optionally shut off the auto whistling, but that kind of stuff is good for display layouts.
Most of my locos have sound, either factory or retrofit, and those that don't soon will. I like the ESU loksound boards although the speakers are harder to find than those for the QSI system.
I've only had one loco give me any sound troubles and that was bought secondhand. It'll be getting a new Loksound chip next month.
It'd have to be a real nice model for me to consider buying something without sound, although that being said, the mute button does come in handy at times.