Hi Guys! ( sorry for the "so-so" photo quality. I'm more of a 35mm guy than digital).
Some of you remember my previous post on this car. Since several people have asked me, I'm posting these photos though the car is not yet finished. Here it is in it's out-of-the-box appearance. This was likely manufactured in the 1970s. I won it on ebay for $12. This photo is of the car on ebay, it's not my layout:
Here I begin to chisel off all of the molded on grab irons:
Time for the 91% alcohol bath! Like Rivorossi cars, AHM silver paint comes off easily:
Funny thing. The red and blue Amtrak stripes wanted to hang on for another 30 years! I said "Sorry, but it's time to go now".
Bath is finished, followed by a wash with a generic liquid detergent and water. Squeaky clean!
Some weeks later after receiving the Union Station Products corrugation kit: As per Arjay's suggestion, I purchased a bottle of Tenax Adhesive. Very thin and fast drying indeed! Thank you, Arjay!
Here I had masked off for the lower panel and glued it in place. I peeled the tape off partially to check for glue leaks.
Lower corrugation on the engineer's side in place:
Now the upper corrugated panel:
Making progress. View is of the "Fireman's side":
Several days after applying Scale Coat II gray-black formula mix. The photos don't do it justice, but Scale Coat II is very, glossy! No clear needed. :
After metalizing (sorry I didn't have my camera with me at the time I sprayed the Alclad on the shell):
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I still have a ways to go. I will be adding:
BB shot pellets in the interior's pockets as well as flat steel plates to bring her up to NMRA standard weight.
A painted Rivorossi interior.
Light weathering on the underbody.
The stock trucks are not great, but I'll tolerate them for now once I replace the plastic wheels sets with P2K 36" metal wheel sets.
I drilled out the molded in lenses. A pair of red MV lenses will be glued in place.
A diaphram on the blunt end.
This is going to be a "freelance" Pullman Standard version of the blunt end 250 series Budd Observation cars used on the Atlantic Coast Line's "Champion". Since no one makes one, this will be a "stand in" car, as a good friend suggested until someone manufactures an accurate version.
Looks good, Antonio , but I have a question: When you don't add corrugated sides to a model, do you have to do much filling after removing the cast-on grabirons? The reason that I ask is because it appears that you're using that #17 chisel blade upside down. The bevelled side should face the model (held at the proper angle, of course). With the flat side against the surface, there's a tendency for the leading edge of the blade to "grab", drawing the blade deeper, often right into the surface which you're trying to smooth. It took me a while to catch on to this, too, but it's used the same as a carpenter's chisel.
Wayne
Good eye, Doc! I was holding the blade with one hand for a pose position and the camera in the other hand. I turned the blade around in the right direction after I took the shot.
The blade worked so well, that the cuts were flush. I didn't have to do any filling at all. One "boo-boo" I made in the back was the little step below the door. A tiny burr remained which, when I glued the corrugation panel on, it bulged out slightly on this spot. It bothered me at first until I realized that this area will be covered up with a diaphram. .
Nice job so far
Those old AHM/Rivarossi/IHC cars make nice kit bashing models. Didn't use the Alclad on my IHC kitbash, but it probably would have looked great with it. Although then I would have had to repaint the whole trainset.
What specific Alclad color do you prefer to simulate stainless steel?
And you're really going to keep the AHM trucks? I replaced my IHC car trucks with Train Station Products. The metal wheels I used (Intermountain) on the original trucks ate through the sides. They also were too large and hit the brake pads.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Hello SW,
1. I use ALC 107 Chrome. As I've pointed out on other metalizing threads, this particular formula, imho, resembles stainless steel much better than Alclad's stainless steel formula. The key being once clear coat is applied, the chrome sheen tones down to a high reflective polished, stainless steel look like the prototype SS cars. I prefer to use either Polly Scale's gloss or semi-gloss clear, or Testors "Acryl" clears. They perform quite well.
You've got me thinking about the trucks. I'll consider taking the Train Station Products route. Do their trucks adapt easily to these old passenger cars, or is there a bit of slicing-and-dicing involved?
Originally I didn't want to sink a lot of $ into this car since it's a freelance stand in for a Budd car that I really want that doesn't exist in plastic. Though it's based on the Pennsy's "George Washington" observation car, I'm likely going to letter this for the Atlantic Coast Line.
I'll take some better photos and post them.
As I recall there wasn't much slicing or dicing involved. My conversion was a little trickier then most since I wanted power pickup through the wheels. But I believe there are three holes on Train Station Products for various bolster placement, and one is for AHM/Rivarossi/IHC.
I hear you on freelance stand in. That is what I intended for my conversion. But this temporary stand in is still on the layout as nothing even close is yet available.
Looking forward to more photo updates.
Looks better than regular silver. Reminds me of the finish on the real Burlington Zephyr cars.
Antonio,
I'm glad it worked for you. That is turning out to be a nice-looking car!
I'll second the TSP trucks...most of my passenger car fleet is equipped with them now. They're well detailed for the price, and as someone else already pointed out, they have three mounting holes, so you can use them without changing the bolsters. I did anyway, on mine. I wasn't too fond of the way the trucks looked when pivoting on the cars that had offset mounting holes. But a few minutes work and some styrene fixed that.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
Antonio.....Thanks for sharing your obs with us. Looks great! Bravo!
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Hi Antonio, good to see another Aclad thread; great work as always. I need to get back to work on my MEC P-S cars. Can you recommend a good source for Alclad? It is not in Walthers, and Horizon charges list price plus shipping. Since my LHS went bust last year, I have been looking for another source for the paint.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Thank you Garry, Arjay .
GPaine, I get my Alclad products from the Hobbytown in Brandon, Florida: Here's the information.
http://www.hobbytown.com/flbra/?gclid=CPq7xJj11ZwCFShRagod9CbgJg
The store's address, phone number, and email are on the right side of the page. However, just email Alclad and have them tell you where there is a dealer close to your area:
http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html
Here are a few more shots.
On this one, if you look at the panel next to the window, you can see the reflection of the camera
Now, of course the car is "very shiny" because I haven't clear coated it yet. Once I clear coat it, the finish will more closely resemble that of a car that's been on the road about 10-15 years but is regularly washed. This old girl will be bringing up the rear of my version of "The Champion".
Beautiful job as usual, Antonio. That metalizer really does stainless steel cars justice.
I couldn't find any info on Union Station's site. What is the thickness of the corrugated siding, and is there any risk of a solvent like Tenax distorting it?
AntonioFP45
Looks like typical 70's Amtrak maintenance.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
AntonioFP45 Here are a few more shots. On this one, if you look at the panel next to the window, you can see the reflection of the cameraNow, of course the car is "very shiny" because I haven't clear coated it yet. Once I clear coat it, the finish will more closely resemble that of a car that's been on the road about 10-15 years but is regularly washed and well taken care of. This old girl will be bringing up the rear of my version of "The Champion".
Now, of course the car is "very shiny" because I haven't clear coated it yet. Once I clear coat it, the finish will more closely resemble that of a car that's been on the road about 10-15 years but is regularly washed and well taken care of. This old girl will be bringing up the rear of my version of "The Champion".
Ke-rap that's shiny!
Steamfreak,
I don't know the thickness, sorry to say. The Tenax is powerful and can damage the corrugation if applied heavily. I got slight warpage on a spot, but it's not severe and virtually passes as "prototypical". Minor warpage on spots of corrugated panels can be seen in some streamliner photos. I would recommend practicing on scap pieces first before applying.
For good details on using TENAX, Arjay is the man! Hopefully he will respond and share his info.
Guys, something I forgot to mention: A number of modelers have been experimenting with Alclad on their streamliners, but taking short cuts that result in leaving them with mediocre results.
Example 1: One modeler that I've communicated with sprayed the Alclad Chrome directly on top of his car's silver finish.
Well, on this AHM car the factory silver surface appeared smooth from a short distance, but upon close inspection the finish was actually grainy. Guys, check your Walthers Budd and Pullman Standard streamliners. The silver finishes are not ultra smooth. This goes for streamlined cars from other manufacturers. Inspect closely.
Bottom line: For this to work; the foundation must be "Very Smooth" and Glossy". It may seem to be a hassle for some to completely paint strip and refinish a car. But for results that make one smile from ear-to-ear, it's often worth the effort even if mistakes are made.
2. Some modelers try to use silver as a base. The catch is that for Pullman Standard and Budd cars, the resulting appearance would make them too white. However, for ACF passenger cars, a light colored base, such as light gray or even silver would work since the stainless steel finish on ACF streamliners was generally "whiter" in hue when compared to the competition.
Dare I say it? There is one potential shortcut that migth work for some of you if you dread stripping down a car. Experiment a little with a Walthers or Rivorossi shell. If the corrugation is "smooth" enough, consider cleaning the car, carefully masking off the window section and roof. Then apply a very thin coat of gloss black. Follow up with Alclad. If you like the results that you see, then this should be a good incentive to get another one of your streamliners and do a complete metalizier job on it. Just imagine what a 10 or 15 car HO or N scale metalized streamliner pulled by E-units or alco PAs would look like running on your layout.
thanks for the tips. i'm getting a bottle to paint my walther cars and was going to spray it on top of the silver paint. better to try it the right way.
AntonioFP45For good details on using TENAX, Arjay is the man! Hopefully he will respond and share his info.
Ah, come on...I'm just a guy who has learned a few things and likes to pass the information on to those who can use it.
But regarding the Tenax, the trick is to go slowly and apply sparingly. You don't want a huge puddle sitting under the fluting eating away at it, or you'll have lots of warpage.
arjay. I talked to a modeler who tried tenax. Had problems when he tryed to glue styrene on a car. He used it sparingly and its very runny like water. but the pieces woodn't hold and came apart. when he put more on the styrene got warped badly. do you apply it with a brush or eyedropper? must you use it to glue these streamline panels on passnger cars? I got ahm cars and am thinking about doing what fp45 here did.
DJ,
You can use anything you want to apply the fluting! I've just had good luck with the Tenax. You can apply it with a brush or with one of these: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/232-711. It's a glass tube, open at one end, with a needle applicator at the other. To fill it, you put the open end of the tube into the bottle of liquid glue and let the liquid flow up into the tube, then turn the applicator over so the needle is down, and then the liquid will flow down to and through the tip. It's handy for applying the very small amounts of glue you need to get the fluting on.
As for the problems he had getting the parts to stay put, did he apply pressure to hold them while the solvent worked? Even on the Tenax instructions, it tells you to apply pressure for a few seconds to allow the bond to work. I found that out the hard way the first few times I tried it, too.
The main reason I recommend the Tenax over any of the other solvent-type glues is that it evaporates quite a bit faster than the others, so that there's less of a chance of "pockets" of it forming under the siding. Pockets are bad...they lead to warping. That's why I recommend applying a small amount at a time and working slowly down the length of the siding rather than trying to stick it down all at once.
There's another misconception about the liquid glues that I try to correct as well...some people think that you have to apply the glue to the pieces then fit them together, the same as you'd do with the gel or tube-type glues. That's the wrong way. With the liquids, you have to fit the pieces together, THEN apply the glue. For the fluting, you'd place the fluting where you want it, then apply a SMALL amount at one end and hold it in place for a few seconds, then lift the other end and apply a small amount (just a tiny drop) under the fluting close to where you tacked it down. Work your way down the length of the fluting the same way, then let it dry for about 24 hours. To finish it off, run the glue sparingly under the edges of the fluting to seal it, then let it dry for 24 hours again, then you're ready for paint...or Alclad, as the case may be!
Hope that helps!
I forgot to add...Union Station Products has an adhesive on the back of their fluting, presumably to hold the styrene down to the plate during the milling process. It's not strong enough to hold the styrene to a car side, but it WILL prevent the Tenax from getting to the fluting to bond it unless you remove it!
Hey Arjay, thanks for responding!
After receiving the fluting from Union Station Products, I took them to the kitchen sink and dipped them in warm water containing a mild dishwashing soap. With a toothbrush, I worked to scrub off the glue that was on the back of those panels. Took me a while but was successful.
A few days later, after the car was prepped, I applied the Tenax with what appears to be a #2 size paint brush.
I did go overboard with the glue on a few small areas, but they were not warped severely. At first I felt a little irritated until a friend reminded me that even the well-taken-care of prototype streamliners (like Santa Fe's and the Southern's) accumulated minor damages here and there. Since I'm modeling the 1960s, this car would fit in nicely.
There is watch crystal cement, which bonds well but doesn't attack plastic. WATCH CRYSTAL CEMENT
It's thick, looking more like old style model cement, and great for windows and lenses. Not sure how it would fare over a large area. And as you said, some minor rippling is hardly unrealistic.
Thanks for that information. As I've stated on past threads, I like to experiment with various products and compare performance, durability, and ease of use.
Just a quick update here instead of starting a new thread.
Thanks to those of you that were concerned that I had not posted for nearly a month. I had quite a bit going on, but thankfully I'm back in the saddle. I'm working to finish this car so I can metalize some Walthers Budds. She'll be getting an interior, venetian blinds, and window tint.
Cool purchase: Ironically I just won another one of these AHM observation cars on ebay with the cool factor being that it's an undec unit with an interior! So no alcohol bath will be needed.
Those of you that model passenger trains have a neat opportunity at this time. Undecorated Walthers corrugated side streamliners have been showing up in the Walthers Flyer for the past 2 months with prices from the high teens to low 20s. OPPORTUNITY! Those of you that have been wanting to metalize streamliners without putting a drain in your wallet should go for it!
will ths work on concor passnger train cars?
Yes but which type of Con-Cor passenger equipment are you referring to? The streamlined corruaged Pullman Standard Con-Cor cars from the late 1970s-early 80s would be good candidates. I had one that I sold years ago. I could be mistaken, as I'm not very familiar with the newer "shorty" Con Cors, but from the web photos I saw they appear to be smooth siders and seem to be based on prototypes with bodies that were completely painted.
But "generally" corrugated streamliners from Budd, Pullman Standard, and ACF had stainless steel finishes, although various railroads (NH, ACL, RI, C&O) or even the manufacturer would apply paint over the SS on some sections, such as the window rows and/or the roofs.