My whining about the expense of brass, and guys spending $1500 to $2000 on an engine, came to an end when I saw a dealer selling an HO Sunset SP GS-1, 4-8-4 for $325.00, what a beauty engine, now even I would sell some tires off my car to buy this sweet looking loco, it's mint, in a box, and this guy guarantees his stuff. Now if I can just swing a loan at the bank I'm ordering.
Hello
Good luck on that one ---that one sounds COOL!!
My 2 doodlebugs came out of an estate sale some time back-----$200 for the both of 'em
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Tatans:
Brass is out there at reasonable prices--some 'on consignment' brass locos can be got from major brass retailers for about the same price (or less) as contemporary plastic steamers. I've got my eye on a couple of brass lokies from Caboose Hobbies that are running between $250 and $325, and they are from importers that I've trusted over the years and had good luck with.
One example: Caboose Hobbies has an Oriental "Powerhouse" USRA-style Rio Grande 3500 series 2-8-8-2 on consignment for $250. That little puppy will pull your house off of it's foundations, it's THAT powerful and smooth, and it's running about $100 less than the current plastic P2K version of the same thing. For the extra $100, you can super-detail it and install DCC and sound (if you're so inclined) to your hearts content.
Brass need not be a 'Rich Man's Hobby'. Heck, I'm a SCHOOLTEACHER, and I've been able to amass a good RUNNING collection of brass steamers over the years. And these days, a lot more brass is showing up at places like Caboose Hobbies, Peach Creek Shops, BrassTrains and other dealers on consignment at very reasonable prices as those 'collectors' of yesterday begin unloading their collections onto the market (bless their hearts, LOL! .)
Sure, new brass is going to cost you the National Debt, but if you want to save up for it, New Brass is going to be pretty much like New Plastic--DCC, sound, all-wheel pickup, powerful, smooth motors, detail to pop your eyeballs out--but what you're going to get is something that LASTS!
I can't tell you how many plastic steamers I've had over the years that have finally bit the dust while a couple of my 1964 Akane Yellowstones just keep chugging along. And that goes for the rest of my rather large brass collection. Loco starts acting up? 3 screws. Lift the boiler off, and tinker a little bit. Back on the track and running. Hey, REAL steamers were the same way, by golly!
IMO, the stuff's IMMORTAL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Taking out a loan at the bank? I'm not laughing ,did just that a number of years ago , went to my credit union and borrowed $500 for a PFM Great Northern 2-8-8-0.
love it and never looked back.....though the wife was not overly pleased lol
CB&Q:
That is just a beautiful locomotive--and the chances are that it will only EVER be available in brass, because that's what brass does--give us beautiful renditions of locomotives from railroads that aren't considered 'popular' by current manufacturers. So we can find locos for GN, CB&Q, NP, Rio Grande, and a lot of other railroads that are not deemed financially 'returnable' on initial investments of casting by the plastic guys.
For instance: A Challenger that's NOT Union Pacific. Wow, who'da thunk? Brass Westside. Runs like a dream. A Rio Grande L-105, a big, powerful, fast behemoth that makes the UP version look like a mouse.
You'll never find this one from BLI or P2K, I'll bet!
I'm not quite sure how to understand the very large price difference between current 'new' brass and forty - plus year old models. Detail? Maybe. Better internals (motor, DCC, etc.)? Maybe. World economy and inflation? Maybe--perhaps likely. What is most interesting is that some very old, but excellent brass locomotives are priced, and I assume selling, at or near their original prices. The market almost resembles a used car market at the point before 'clunkers' become 'collector cars.'
I've recently sold a few very rare custom painted locomotives (even rarer paint schemes) at mostly breakeven prices. They were sold because I simply couldn't accomodate them on the layout, and I knew if I dropped dead, no one in my family would have a clue how to get even a fraction of their value out of them.
I'm now faced with the problem of whether or not to spend significant bucks to convert my remaining half dozen brass locomotives to DCC--probably by paying someone to do the job and make re-motor decisions in the process. I may end up with the only Westside Cotton Belt 4-8-4 custom painted and fully DCC motion and sound, but with a pretty hefty investment, only for my heirs to discover that I may have been the only person who ever wanted one.
Like most of us in the hobby, this is for fun not investment, but you hate to see $800 to $1200 of your estate sold at a garage sale for $40.
As Yoda would say, "No easy answer there is."
Tatans, they're out there. Lots of people seem to be hopped up on something when they set prices for stuff they're selling. (like a Tyco GP20 for 60 bucks?!?!?)
CB&Q and Tom, both of those mallets are nice.
Caboose hoobies has some OMI C636s on order. I'm thinking of getting one, but I want to know what to expect to pay for it. I Don't really feel like waint for Bowser/Stewart to do them, and not sure how good the detail level on the Tiger Valley models are much less if they'll have C636s.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
My thought on the price of new brass currently being offered perticularly the new steamers I'm seeing as TBA ($1500-$2500) is that at their current asking price one could expect them to be DCC equipted and maybe even have sound , after all adding that should not be all that more expensive.
Face it we are adding DCC and sound for less than $200 to some of our existing locomotives.
I added a Lenz Gold DCC decoder to both the loco above and this GN. 2-10-2 for less that $40 each
Earlier this year I picked up a Tenshodo USRA 0-8-0 factory painted, late run with the better detailing for $60 with no box and from the same estate I got a Tenshodo GN SD9 that is factory painted. I put an accurate lighting can motor with twin flywheels in it, while it still has the old tower gear growl, its very smooth and will just creep along at yard speed. Makes an excellent local and switch engine on the club layout. The 0-8-0 runs very smooth and quiet. I had it weathered and I put working lights in it. With the boiler full of lead, it switches the coal mine on our layout. I picked up the unpainted PFM Climax in super rough shape, the paint was so thick you could nolonger see the roof hatch and both eccentric cranks were unsoldered from the flywheels. Again, a good paint stripping, a bit of tinkering and she runs as good as she looks. I paid $30 for it. While none of them have thier original boxes, I am an operator first, collector second. I run my models. Cheers Mike
LHS mechanic and geniune train and antique garden tractor nut case!
Brass was always just out of my reach in the 1960s and 1970s.
In HOn3, the only non-brass is or has been the Roundhouse 2-8-0 and Shay kits (out of production), the Keystone Shay kit (motorizing kit is also out of production), and the very recent K-27s by MMI and Blackstone.
As I am not yet to the point of wanting to build a loco from scratch, yet have a very modest budget, cheap brass has been a good answer to filling in the roster. I am now the proud owner of a Kidder 0-4-0T and an FED 2-6-0. Paid several times what these sold for new in the '60s and '70s, but less than inflation, for almost mint examples. The brass is a great starting point for modifications and bashing. I already bought the LocoDoc remotoring kit for the FED, and am examining the PSC and Bowser (Cal-Scale) catalogs for detail parts I want to add. By the time I remotor and re-detail, I will have spent double the money on each, but still less than any current production, and will have built a fine running model that fits in much better with my fictional prototype.
The release of brass collections and the arrival of new plastic and/or die cast production steam has put downward pressure on used brass prices, making it even more enticing than just a few years ago. I expect this trend to continue for at least a few more years. This downward trend also means that buying brass as an investment is likely to be a losing proposition. Buy because you want to use them.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
If anyone can tell me, where I can buy this:
for, say $ 500.00, I be really happy to buy brass!
The Roco plastic version already sold for something like $ 800.00
How do I get really rich?
I just got a pair of Alco brass locos( an rsd 12 and an rs 11 ) in NKP livery, from E-Bay for around $135 with shipping. I couldn't find an RSD 12 to save my life, so when these two came up as a pair, I jumped at the chance. R. Staller
Where those the ones with the working mars lights ect? I seen those if they are. That was an excellent buy and I am glad they went to a good home. I would have bought them myself, but I am concentrating on steam more than diesel right now. Even the Atlas/Kato RSD12's are rare to find on the second hand market. Cheap brass is out there, be it ebay, hoyardsale yahoo group or your local train show. I am having my Tenshodo brass USRA 0-8-0 professionaly modified into Buffalo Creek and Gauley #14. That engine started its life as a USRA 0-8-0 and was converted to a 2-8-0 sometime during its life. She is an excellent puller and will make an excellent coal hauler on our branch line. Defitnatly a buyers and a operators market right now. Mike
This is my cheap 30 year old brass, Hallmark Models, Baldwin AS-616 that I had detailed and painted into SP. Also added a can motor and electrical pick-up shoes that slide along the rail, and makes the model run a lot better. Don't have to depend on wheel electrical pick up. On page 11 of the October 09 Model Railroader I see a Overland model of the same brass AS-616 for $950.00 before state sales tax is added! And it comes in the SP paint scheme too.
Brass is NOT cheap no more!
Great looking Baldwin!! It should be said that NEW brass isnt cheap anymore. Old brass is a bargain many times, espicaly early diesels that tend to make enough noise that you dont need a sound decoder in them. Just upgrade the motor to a can with flywheels and add full 8 wheel pickup or track skates and they normaly run quite well. Cheers Mike
New Brass is not Cheap.
I just purchased a Precision Scale B&M R-1c that I had been waiting on for almost 18 months for about $1700. Now that may seen pretty expensive but it is DCC ready. It has working lights and is factory painted. The box is also marked #11 of 15 tota pieces.
Mike
That is the reason a single diesel engine is 1700, only 15 made!!! Back in the day, PFM imported runs of 300-500 of many of thier popular models, then they would do repeat runs. They made brass models affordable to most modelers and still do in the sense that most of the more prolific models are still some of the most affordabe and best running models. If someone could import models in those quanities at current PFM/Tenshodo prices, it would probably go over well, but they we expect DCC and sound in new models so there goes the price to the sky again! MIke
New Brass is much improved over the releases of the 1970s and 1980s.
My brass collecting days are over though. I do keep an eye on ebay to keep a toe in the water. There are a few NYCentral steamers I would buy if somebody is selling them.
Andy
This is/was my only "I've just gotta have it" piece of brass. a GN. M2 2-6-8-0 erected by Challenger Models....bought it back in 1993 for $1100 which was really high dollar back then, was also my last brass purchase to date though prices for most used brass has either leveled off or in many cases even shrunk. and I'm always looking for that super bargain lol
Agreed that brass seems to be a bit on the high side but have you asked yourself why so high? Because it's worth something thats why. The workmanship on a lot of those high end expensive brass locomotives is artistic to say the least. I personally don't see the same appeal in brass diesels but the same argument hold as much water I guess. It's just the details seem more prevalent on Steam engines more so then diesels. In my o/p the bottom line is you r paying more because your getting more. Sure a lot of the detail on new high end plastic models Broadway Limited, MTH, etc, is fantastic and is almost as nice as some brass models but the real difference is that brass either holds it's value or goes up in price the same can't be said for the best high end plastic version. You can always get away with that argument with the wife when she wants to hit you with the rolling pin because you dropped $1500 on a "toy" but show her the facts which are clearly published and watch her change her tune. Now you and I both know we're never gonna sell or prized locomotives weather they are plastic or brass but you have to admit it may get her off your back and you can justify it to the little voice of distention in the back of your head.