How about new forums?

[rclanger]

I would like to see two new forums.  Operations and weathering are the two I think would be well read.  Create the new forum, move all the existing threads with the same topic to populate the new thread.  I don't believe this would be a big deal for MR and would be helpful to the members.  It is not scale specific and would attract a lot of traffic.

Am I right?  Are there other suggestions?

[Packers#1]

 I've heard operating our trains called a hobby within this hobby, and weathering threads could definitely fill another sub-forum, I second your suggestions!

[cacole]

 I haven't seen enough postings about those two topics to justify separate forums.

Other people would start demanding separate forums for other topics, and if MR went along with that we'd wind up with possibly two dozen forums.

People posting in the wrong forum even with the few that we currently have is enough of a problem now without making things more confusing.

Just looking at the first page of any forum topic, I see at least a dozen subjects that could be separate forums; i.e., Bachmann; Spectrum; derailments; air brush; car float; survey; Walthers; photo fun; Kato; etc., etc.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it!  That's my

 

[jwhitten]

rclanger

I would like to see two new forums.  Operations and weathering are the two I think would be well read.  Create the new forum, move all the existing threads with the same topic to populate the new thread.  I don't believe this would be a big deal for MR and would be helpful to the members.  It is not scale specific and would attract a lot of traffic.

Am I right?  Are there other suggestions?

 

 

Yes, those are good ideas. I would enjoy having those forums as well.

[Phoebe Vet]

Dave:

I remember a lot of people being in favor of the DCC forum.  I was a proponent of the DCC forum, but I think too many will make it too complicated.

Perhaps I am just being influenced by the fact that I am not overly interested in weathering at this moment in time.  I am not against new forum breaks, but I think having too many will make them too specialized for those people who just browse all of them in search of general knowledge.

I guess my vote is against, but it is not a strong objection.

Other Dave

[markpierce]

If posters were more capable in placing their threads in the correct category and if it took no effort to move from one thread to another, more subcategories could be useful.  I will admit that having the separate electrical subforum has saved me time by avoiding it because I dislike messing with wiring/electronics, which thankfully, I have no current need for information.

Mark

[superbe]

One solution woud be for subject lines be more descriptive of what the post is about. A problem is that many of the Subject Titles leave you guessing as to what's in  the post. If the subject line was more descriptive of the post it would be much simpler. If it's about weathering for example mention it in the subject line. I've opened many threads to look and then go to another.

 This would be an educational process and will never happen.

Also I've found that often there is over lapping info in posts which I've found very helpfull. A post might be about one thing but responses help with other areas of modeling as well.

With that said I'm happy with the way things are. The more you read the more you learn

Bob

[Paul3]

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

If you look around the 'net, the websites with many (over a dozen) forums may have one very popular forum, but the rest are ghost towns.

IMHO, we need websites with few forums like Atlas (N, HO, O, DCC, Admin), MR (General, Layout, DCC, Proto, Anniv.), etc. to keep up interest in the subject matters at hand.  Too many forums will siphon off interest into the various sub-forums or will be ignored.

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

[Phoebe Vet]

 One thing I WOULD be in favor of is putting this line on the bottom as well as the top of the page like it used to be before they redsigned it.

Trains.com Forums » Model Railroader Forums » General Discussion (Model Railroader) » How about new forums?

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

Back when we were discussing the creation of what is now the DCC forum, I suggested that the word electrical should have been included.  It wasn't, and we still get wiring and accessory power threads posted here and in the layout forum by analog DC users who shy away from the DCC aspect.

OTOH, I rather doubt that balkanizing the forum would be of significant benefit to anybody.  Anyone who wants to know about weathering, or beginner DCC, or hand-laid specialwork, can enter their keyword in the Search block and be rewarded with a full directory of threads going clear back to 2001.

I, personally, scan every forum when I visit (which, thanks to my present medical problems is frequently) and read any thread which sounds interesting.  Since I am now building things which aren't meant to see the light of day, I skip threads about weathering and scenery.  Once I build my way out of the Netherworld, the search button will get more use in those areas.

There have been attempts to start specialist threads in both HO and N scale.  After brief splashes of interest they faded into oblivion.  Even the once-vibrant Beer Barn has become moribund.  As for a complete forum, the activity level on the Where are the anniversary boxcars Forum is an indication of the probable fate of any forum with too narrow an emphasis.  It's rather like Antarctica - everybody knows it's down there, but almost nobody cares.

On a scale of 1 to 10, this one is a seven - not a good idea, but unlikely to generate a partisan flame war.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in 1:80 scale, aka HOj)

 

[steinjr]

 

 Here is a (IMO) sensible proposal that came up in another thread a little while ago.

steinjr

IRONROOSTER

I think the shorter list below will also minimize the cross posting which we get even with the 4 we have now. 

      - General
      - Layout building (planning/design, benchwork,  trackwork, and DC wiring)
      - Scratchbuilding, kitbashing, craftsman kits
      - Controls (DCC, electronics, signaling, etc)
      - Scenery, painting, weathering, and finishing
      - Prototype information
      - Operations

 

I think this would have been the most workable proposal, since it has an easy transition path from the current system to a new (and better) system:

 1) Remove the useless anniversary boxcars forum from the list
 2) Keep the other three forums as is (but extend the group names ...)
 3) Add three new forums:
     - Scratchbuilding, kitbashing, craftsman kits
     - Scenery, painting, weathering, and finishing
     - Operations

 

Smile,
Stein

 

[JSperan]

tomikawaTT

Back when we were discussing the creation of what is now the DCC forum, I suggested that the word electrical should have been included.  It wasn't, and we still get wiring and accessory power threads posted here and in the layout forum by analog DC users who shy away from the DCC aspect.

 

Yes MR could have been more descriptive when they named and described the DCC forum, but if anyone actually reads the description they should get the general idea from that.  I think too many users tend to post without looking first for the forum that is most suitable for their post, so wiring and DCC threads still tend to end up in Layout Building and General Discussion.  Having more categories would just compound that issue and make more work for moderators.

As for creating new forums categories, good luck.  It was like pulling teeth to get MR to create the Electronics & DCC forum and the only reason it happened was that Bergie was already considering creating a forum category for DCC.

While I understand the desire, I do disagree with the idea of creating more categories and I think the moderators and administrators of the forums are on the same page.

[rclanger]

steinjr

I think the shorter list below will also minimize the cross posting which we get even with the 4 we have now. 

      - General
      - Layout building (planning/design, benchwork,  trackwork, and DC wiring)
      - Scratchbuilding, kitbashing, craftsman kits
      - Controls (DCC, electronics, signaling, etc)
      - Scenery, painting, weathering, and finishing
      - Prototype information
      - Operations

 

With the above list having the General section would seem to be almost useless.  And I notice that some responses are based on the individuals personal current likes and needs.  I personally am not interested in weathering but do see a number of long threads about the subject.  I am interested in operations and have initiated a few threads.  Most have generated a lot of responses and views.

I searched in the General and Layout sections for operation, operating, and "layout operation".  I do not know the number of threads but the item count is well over 10,000.  That seems to be a significant number though the number of threads may not be.

On the other hand if the search was better, just listing the initial thread and not all the RE: responses, searching would be more effective and much easier for the user.  I am not going to root through 10,000 items but I might a smaller number of threads.

[selector]

I don't want to come across as a cheerleader for the status quo at MR...any place can stand some mucking out or reorganization once in a while.  The DCC forum is a perfect example, and Bergie should remembered positively for that head-nod to the members here.

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

...and that is the truth.  On another forum where I hang out, someone started a thread wanting a forum for 'skyscrapers', with the supporting premise being that many people have urban layouts.  While there is some sense, and there would be some undoubted worth to a few people, how many of us have standalone HO structures 6' tall on our layouts?

Further, Paul is correct.  He is on several other forums where I occasionally see him post.  When he says forums that are too discretely compartmentalized are slow and lose their 'flavour', he is right....been there, seen it.

I believe that one of the characteristics that keeps MR popular is the fact that its General Discussion forums are healthy and busy.  The threads are varied and allow quick glances for 'one stop shopping'.

I don't want to indulge in a reductio ad absurdum (reduction to absurdity), or simply a red herring argument, but lots of threads talk about wheelsets.  Maybe that could be a sub forum all its own.  Or how about MTH DCS vs. DCC vs. DC?  Okay, that is getting a bit into the weeds, we agree.  Although, "track problems" crops up as much as anything.  Trains derailing at turnouts...part of track tuning.  Maybe a forum dealing only with track-laying and gauging.  Would those who hand-lay track be happy with threads dealing only with commercial track polluting an otherwise promising forum on track laying, their passion?

All that aside, I do happen to think that one more forum dealing strictly with weathering (rolling stock, structures, track), couldn't hurt.  At least, we could try it and see what we have in six months.  Anything done electronically can be undone, as we all know too well.

-Crandell

[DingySP]

    I vote yes for a painting, weathering and finishing forum. For those that build models, I think about 50% of the time is spent assembling and 50% of the time painting. For a newcomer, picking up an airbrush for the first time can be pretty intimidating. I know I went through several different set ups before I found one I was comfortable with. Some other non-MR related modeling sites go to great lengths to explain how to use all the latest paint/weathering products and techniques. I think people here would be interested in finding out about these in the friendly atmosphere that exists here.

   I know I would contribute. 

Tom

[markpierce]

Well, if I had the power, the first two things I would do are:

Eliminate the "Where are the MR Anniversary Boxcars" from the Model Railroader forums.  The activity is very low and could be placed with the Trains forums (if that forum's participants want it) where the subject (following the travels of a couple prototype railroad cars) is more appropriately discussed.  While I'm a reader of Model Railroader, I'm not interested in the location of advertisements for the magazine. 

Re-label the "Electronics and DCC" forum to "All Things Electrical, Electronic, DC, DCC or AC."

.....

I don't think there is a big need to create more subforums.

If forum monitors have some idle time, I suggest they send PMs to people who post in the wrong subforum so the subforum categorization is more useful.

Mark

[JSperan]

markpierce

Well, if I had the power, the first two things I would do are:

Eliminate the "Where are the MR Anniversary Boxcars" from the Model Railroader forums.  The activity is very low and could be placed with the Trains forums (if that forum's participants want it) where the subject (following the travels of a couple prototype railroad cars) is more appropriately discussed.  While I'm a reader of Model Railroader, I'm not interested in the location of advertisements for the magazine. 

Re-label the "Electronics and DCC" forum to "All Things Electrical, Electronic, DC, DCC or AC."

.....

I don't think there is a big need to create more subforums.

If forum monitors have some idle time, I suggest they send PMs to people who post in the wrong subforum so the subforum categorization is more useful.

Mark

 

Mark,

I agree with everything you have said.

That being said, I know the suggestion was made back when the DCC forum was being discussed, that the MR anniversary boxcar thread was a waste, but MR seemed firm in their decision to keep that forum around for some reason.

Renaming the Electronics & DCC thread as you have suggested is a great idea, IMO.

[rclanger]

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

 

Your statement is based on what?  I belong to a number of forums, this is the only MR one though.  One I belong to has more than 15 sections.  However the user has the option of following any of them and does not see the ones he has not joined.

[citylimits]

I seem to remember that a few years ago there was a separate weathering group - unrelated to this forum, run by a guy living in Alaska - he also ran the FSM group as well.
I'm away from my home computer for a while so this guys name is not to hand right now.

If the weathering group I am refering to still exists then perhaps those here on this form may want to engage in weathering discussions there.

My personal feeling is that just the one forum of a general nature, such as this one, is all that is needed. This one here is probably as a good a utility type forum as you can get. Others I've spend time on are broken down into too many subgroups as to ultimately be too confusing - well for an old geezer like me anyway.

Bruce

 

[markpierce]

rclanger

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

 

Your statement is based on what?  I belong to a number of forums, this is the only MR one though.  One I belong to has more than 15 sections.  However the user has the option of following any of them and does not see the ones he has not joined.

How about a testimonial?  ... I find forums with a multitude of subforums to be bothersome and either avoid or make little use of them.  It is tiresome to have to enter a subforum, and then have to exit it, and then go to another subforum, and so on and so on.  Usually there is only a single post or two in each subforum, so there is little to "mine" for each visit.  It is so much more convenient to see the topics at once so one can do "one stop shopping" for selecting the threads that are of interest.  Perhaps if a large majority of the topics are not of interest and there are a large number of posts, subforums can help to separate areas of interest from dis-interest.  I don't find that true with Kalmbach's model railroader forum even though more than half of the threads aren't of interest.

Mark

Mark

[JSperan]

 

rclanger

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

 

Your statement is based on what?  I belong to a number of forums, this is the only MR one though.

From the discussions of the past when the DCC forum addition was requested, IIRC, I believe it was MR's stance as well, that adding to many forum categories was a sure way to make the forum less attractive to users and could ultimately do more harm than good.  I assume they have looked at the issue in order to form that opinion.  Of course everyone has their own opinion on these things and are welcome to voice it in a friendly discussion.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 As a forum owner I can tell you that more choices is not the answer. In fact, many people tend to shy away from sites that have too many choices as they tend to be confusing.

[Philly Bill]

 As a recently joined member, I don't claim authority from experience here, but I've been doing online threading since, well, dialing up Compuserve on a 2400 baud dialup modem.  These are the good old days, I'll tell ya.

 When I joined here, it actually struck me that there was so few fora.  But then I saw the message and thread counts and realized this is one of the most active sites I've ever seen (at least, not counting the social type sites with no focus or substance).

 It does make sense to have relatively few big sections.  So I agree with what seems to be the consensus.  

[gregc]

superbe

One solution woud be for subject lines be more descriptive of what the post is about. A problem is that many of the Subject Titles leave you guessing as to what's in  the post.

people could try starting a trend by putting the category as the first word in the subject, such as: "tracklaying - having a problem with Xyz company switches".

[loathar]

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

 

We really only have 3. (can't count the anniversary car thing)
We do need a weathering category. (maybe kalmbach could charge $20/year to view it?)

[Flashwave]

gregc

superbe

One solution woud be for subject lines be more descriptive of what the post is about. A problem is that many of the Subject Titles leave you guessing as to what's in  the post.

people could try starting a trend by putting the category as the first word in the subject, such as: "tracklaying - having a problem with Xyz company switches".

You could, and I'm all for informative titles. But, you run into the risk of twelve thread sright in a row all starting with "tracklaying - having a problem with" and getting "lost". Whaere as "problem with Xyz flex" and "Can't get XYZ switch tro stay in position" are easily recognizeable as two different threads.

[jwhitten]

Paul3

The quickest way to kill a forum is to split it up into too many sub-forums.

If you look around the 'net, the websites with many (over a dozen) forums may have one very popular forum, but the rest are ghost towns.

IMHO, we need websites with few forums like Atlas (N, HO, O, DCC, Admin), MR (General, Layout, DCC, Proto, Anniv.), etc. to keep up interest in the subject matters at hand.  Too many forums will siphon off interest into the various sub-forums or will be ignored.

Paul A. Cutler III

 

*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

 

 

That is also a good point.

[jwhitten]

JSperan

tomikawaTT

Back when we were discussing the creation of what is now the DCC forum, I suggested that the word electrical should have been included.  It wasn't, and we still get wiring and accessory power threads posted here and in the layout forum by analog DC users who shy away from the DCC aspect.

 

Yes MR could have been more descriptive when they named and described the DCC forum, but if anyone actually reads the description they should get the general idea from that.  I think too many users tend to post without looking first for the forum that is most suitable for their post, so wiring and DCC threads still tend to end up in Layout Building and General Discussion.  Having more categories would just compound that issue and make more work for moderators.

As for creating new forums categories, good luck.  It was like pulling teeth to get MR to create the Electronics & DCC forum and the only reason it happened was that Bergie was already considering creating a forum category for DCC.

While I understand the desire, I do disagree with the idea of creating more categories and I think the moderators and administrators of the forums are on the same page.

 

 

I think a lot of people post in 'General' because it has the largest reader traffic.

[steinjr]

 

jeffrey-wimberly

 As a forum owner I can tell you that more choices is not the answer. In fact, many people tend to shy away from sites that have too many choices as they tend to be confusing.

 "Too many choices" is by definition a bad thing, since we use the word "too" to describe something that is excessive. I don't think anyone advocates going to "too many" :-)

 And equally obviously, more choices is sometimes a bad choice. But not always.

 One question is how many forums are too many. A separate question is whether the choices seems to be organized in a logical manner, so it is fairly obvious what group a post belongs in to the great majority of users.

 Those are actually non-trivial questions.

 Here is a not totally serious list of potential forums that could be presented for someone posting:
- "I'm new here" (FAQs, a place to ask basic questions, etc)
- Track planning and layout design
- Layout building (benchwork and carpentry, modular standards)
- Track laying and basic wiring
- Scenery and Buildings
- Engines and rolling stock
- Controls (DCC, electronics, automation,signals)
- Prototype information and research
- Operations (making your trains move like the real thing)
- "The crew lounge"  (hanging out with friends, general comments, announcements, showing pictures)

 These are categories that roughly cover the phases a model railroader goes through (or may go through) while building and running a layout. It is probably a fairly logical grouping for posting - it should be fairly clear to most posters in what category a question belongs.

 Is it convenient for a one-stop browsing e.g. for someone who is only interested in e.g. weathering, but is interested in both weathering tracks, buildings, engines and rolling stock. No.

As Mark pointed out:

markpierce

It is tiresome to have to enter a subforum, and then have to exit it, and then go to another subforum, and so on and so on.  Usually there is only a single post or two in each subforum, so there is little to "mine" for each visit.

  With the current user interface of the forums, where most users probably either doesn't realize that there is a "what's new" list at all, or only see "what's new" as a little list of the last ten posts collected from all the forums in the right hand column of the screen, and then only when you are on the forum list front page), most users will think that you pretty much have click into each forum to see what's going on.

 That probably makes anything beyond 3-5 forums a very bad idea for most users, who actually do enter a forum, look, and back out.

 An intelligent "what's new" feature would have allowed users to put a "watch" on the forums they are interested in (and then it becomes smart to have more forums, since you can be more selective about what you are interested in), and then present the user an easy way (from any screen) to get one list of what's new in the watched forums since his or her last visit.

 Actually, the forum already has a mechanism in place that fairly easily could be extended to provide such a function - under your name in the right hand column on the front page, there is a link named "Forum subscriptions".  It is not totally clear to me what this link controls (RSS feeds only? Update: actually: email notifications about new posts).

 But it ought to be easy enough to extend it to work in tandem with the idea from the other link in the right hand column on the front page ("Posts you have not read"). If you use that link, you will find a list of threads (from all forums) that has new content since the last time you read that thread.

 Default choice is "Threads with new posts from all forums". Drop down list allows you to pick "Threads with new posts from Model Railroader forums" or "Threads with new posts from the Model Railroader General Forum".

  No choice to get updated threads from subscribed forums only, but that should be a fairly trivial change to add, if Kalmbach wants to do so.

  Also, a sensible user interface would put that "new posts in watched forums" link somewhere visible e.g. into the "My profile" box on the right side of the screen, or on top of all lists, so you always had it available, and then add a link to the subscribe/unsubscribe page from the "new posts in watched forums" page.

 Furthermore, a sensible design would make sure new users get an email with the forum user guide and links to important information, and that new users are forced to wait for and scan through that email (to e.g. get a poster activation link) before they can post, so it becomes slightly more difficult to totally miss these features.

 Anyways - a sensible forum reorganization consists not only of adding a new forum for some random group (e.g "weathering"), but also of removing stuff that serves little purpose, maybe re-labelling and re-positioning some things for better visibility to make their intended use clearer and so on and so forth.

 I'll stop harping about this subject now. There are people who do professional user interface design. I am not one of them. My knowledge of the field is pretty limited - I took a class on Man Machine Interaction back in college, 18+ years ago, and I haven't followed the last 18+ years of research in this field.

  Anyways - it would probably be a good idea for Kalmbach to get a user interface specialist to do a quick evaluation of their web pages and make recommendations for some changes.

 Addendum: I forgot to say that I don't actually care all that much personally about how many forums there are - I can find what I need or want to find either way, whether we have 10 MR forums or 1 big MR forum or whatever.

 I just have a thing about sloppy reasoning (and sloppy programming/configuration) that sometimes makes me nitpick about stuff like this  :-)

Grin,
Stein

 

[ruderunner]

I feel that the current fourms are doing a good job as they are, with the exception of the anniversary fourm which serves no purpopse.  The titles and descriptions do a good job of directing me to what I'm looking for. For example "layout and layout building"  implies scenery and weathering wether the description calls it out or not.

 However I do have a beef with the search system.  Searching by thread would be so much easier than searching by post.  Individually pulling up 10 posts from the same theard then trying find the start of that thread is a waste of time. Pulling up 10 threads then finding a specific post would be faster.  Imagine looking for your car keys which you know you left on a dresser.  Do you start by looking at each individual dresser in every house on your street or do you start with dressers in your house?