Your help needed - GN passenger cars

[Rapido]

Hi all,

We received the first samples of our Panorama Line cars painted in Great Northern.

We use stripes that are the correct height. They match the drawings in the December 1991 MR, which is on my desk right now.

The problem is that GN-painted N scale passenger cars that most people own have stripes that are a little wide to fit the taller windows.

So should we match the original cars or should we match the models that most people have? If we go with the correct height, we'll receive complaints that our stripes don't match what is on people's layouts. If we match the existing cars, we'll get complaints that our stripes aren't the correct height. I think we're going to be condemned either way with this one...

I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

[nik .n]

 I would go with the other manufacturer's height and then have a "Special" verson with correct hight for the more exacting crowd.

My 

[S Hawkins]

Our vote is for accuracy.  When I buy Rapido, I expect the product to be totally accurate to the prototype. Just because some other manufacturer compromised accuracy doesnt mean Rapido should. To placate the purchasers, I would include a written claim stating to that affect.  Please don't compromise, if we have to wait for the "Oh so Steamy" cars because there was one small part overlooked, don't back down on this issue.

[wjstix]

1. I wouldn't continue other people's mistakes. If you are positive what you are doing is correct, do it correctly. For years the only pre-decorated Milwaukee Road cars were the Rivarossi cars which used brown instead of maroon. It would have been a shame if Rapido, Walthers, and others had chosen to use brown instead of maroon on their Milwaukee cars, just so they matched what people may already have in use.

2. If some modellers already have cars that have the wider stripes, it would be fairly easy for them to add wider decal striping to your cars so they match their other cars. If your cars come with the wider stripes, it would be very difficult for someone who wants the striping to be correct to narrow the stripes on your cars.

Plus keep in mind there may be many people out there who have been waiting for someone to do the GN cars correctly before buying any GN passenger cars.

 

[selector]

Be resolute, Jason.  If you are going to maintain your previous insistance on being accurate, even to the extent of stalling the distribution of a whole series recently, why compromise now?  Those who can afford to pay for your upscale plastic passenger cars, and those who can't but do it anyway because they're the best RTR this side of brass, will be worried over your willingness to reduce your standards.  At least, I would expect as much.

Discernible details that you know to be correct should be correct on the models.  If you really are on the horns of a dilemma, opt for the road on which you set out at the beginning of your business venture.  Straight and true...and those with the less-than-accurate cars can either continue to display them or slowly acquire your better product.

-Crandell

[Heartland Division CB&Q]

I'm in HO and not N. In HO, I would say make them prototypically correct.

[Rapido]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. It is much appreciated. I think the idea of doing the correct height stripes and including a note to that effect is a very good one (Bill and I came to the same conclusion when discussing it this morning).

So I think that's probably the best route to take.

I'm an HO modeller so I know the HO market quite well. I am carefully testing the waters in N scale. I don't want to mistakenly do something that would seem logical in HO but would not be widely accepted in N.

Thanks again,

Jason

[Arjay1969]

 I think the trend in ALL of the "modeling" scales is towards more realism these days, so by all means, go forth and make realistic models!

[Flashwave]

The posters are right, keep the details right. I can't see anyone really knocking you because your the first to get the details right. And if the side stripes are wrong on a lot of roads, besides GN, and you get a healthy number of complaints, maybe it would be worth looking into a sub line to please that crowd, but I highly doubt it would.  

Just hunchin' does anyone know if there were GN cars with side stripes of various heights, different orders perhaps, the way paint colors can differ?

[7j43k]

Flashwave

Just hunchin' does anyone know if there were GN cars with side stripes of various heights, different orders perhaps, the way paint colors can differ?

If we're talkin' about the Builder, the upper orange stripe on the Budd-built cars was slightly wider. Other than that, the striping matched. Why, after all, would any railroad tell the builders to "just put those stripes up there somewhere"? I'm really surprised that the Budd cars are SLIGHTLY different--I'm sure it caused some agonizing at the GN head office. I do also wonder if Walthers caught this--I've got the Shoreham Shops Builder, and they caught the differences--good on 'em!

I will disagree with most of the other posters and suggest that Rapido match the other cars (Kato, I'm supposing, since they have a pretty complete Builder in N).

One reason is that the cars Rapido is producing are not really GN cars--they're Canadian stand-ins (at least if they're copies of the HO versions). Now, why get all huffy about getting the paint and lettering exactly right on a car that isn't exactly right.

Also, Rapido is only offering 2 cars, at least for now. I would think that the market for the GN Rapido cars would be people who already had the Kato TRAIN. They would, I think, want any additional cars to match their existing TRAIN. I think very few modelers would buy only the Rapido cars--most modelers (N scalers especially, I think) want the whole train. The Rapido cars appear to be mainly "expansion" cars and should match the train they're expanding.

If Rapido is going to make a full train, then my second point is weakened. But is Rapido planning on doing a real Builder or a stand-in? Your choices will then be a train that has more accurate cars or a train that will have more accurate paint.

I, for one, would NOT by "Builder" cars that didn't match my Builder.

Ed

[Rapido]

7j43k

One reason is that the cars Rapido is producing are not really GN cars--they're Canadian stand-ins (at least if they're copies of the HO versions). Now, why get all huffy about getting the paint and lettering exactly right on a car that isn't exactly right.

As far as I know, nobody has produced a prototypical Empire Builder in N scale, so whether a stand-in is based on a Canadian or an American prototype doesn't make much of a difference. Neither prototype is GN.

Our duplex sleeper is almost identical to GN's Pass series duplex sleeper used on the Western Star, and it has proved very popular in HO with people modelling GN trains other than the EB. It has "GREAT NORTHERN" in the letterboard rather than "EMPIRE BUILDER."

I can only imagine that our N scale customers are buying the cars for the same reason. Obviously, I don't know for sure.

Best regards,

Jason

[7j43k]

Well, as long as the Rapido cars and the cars of other makers aren't in the same train, I suppose it possible that the mismatch will not be a problem. Likely, even.

After looking more closely at the Kato cars on their website, I see that the dome coach, for one, is wrong. I'll have to put quotes around the word "Builder" when referring the the Kato train. Too bad.

Ed

[MisterBeasley]

I'm in HO, too, and my curves are too tight for full-sized passenger cars, but I'll weigh in anyway...

I would go with the accurate model.  My reasoning is a bit different.  Most people who will buy these will be starting their passenger equipment, or starting a new train, not adding to an existing train.  The very high level of detail on these models (a complement from looking at the photos in the ads, before they get drool on them) makes it hard to put them up against existing models which might look shabby by comparison.

You can always be proud of something you've done right.

[Mr. SP]

Walthers has the Empire Builder covered in HO. I agree a N scale version would be great for the little model people.

TheConcor N scale cars are accurite for the following: RPO 1947 Empire Builder, Coach 60 Seat coach, Dome Coach for EB post 1955, Pullman 1947 Empire Builder 8-4-4 "Pass" series (Rapido car the same). Observation 1951 Empire Builder "Mountain" series

The only correct car in the KATO line is the RPO. It is correct for the 1951 Empire Builder. The HO Walthers RPO is this car. The rest of the KATO cars are Union Pacific prototype.

Missing are the Ranch Car, Big Dome, 7-4-3-1 River series & the 6-5-2 Pass series Pullmans & 4-1 Coulee series Observation

[ProtoWeathering]

Arjay1969

 I think the trend in ALL of the "modeling" scales is towards more realism these days, so by all means, go forth and make realistic models!

 

 

Don't tell that to my new pal Sheldon...

 

I think that repeating others mistakes,is wrong too, considering the high quality of your product.

You've been doing some great stuff.