Last night I got out my trusty Walthers catalog and priced what it would cost to put ONE railroad crossing on my layout. HOLLY COW. I know that Walthers is full retail, but man, what if you need several! Heres how it breaks down. Tomar crossing with gates $150, flasher unit $30, bell with assoc.electronics $100, Tortoise machine $18, am I missing anything. For a fully animated crossing with sound your looking at almost $300!! Thats ONE crossing. Is there a way of doing the same thing cheaper? I also checked out streetlights. Brawa gets about $20ea for the ones I want. Lets see, $20 x 25 streetlights........I need to buy a lottery ticket.
I remember them snap track gates, the train weight makes them drop down.....pretty che-inexpensive...
I'm looking at the semaphore controls situation, mannmade had a cool 3 position switch machine, it was slo-motion, I liked it, they dissappeared, used one on a 3 position semaphore on the club layout.
I looked at the Walthers also, doing one signal would make it like 50 bucks per signal or so... sheeshe, no way, the mannmade is perfect.
I think for the tortoise you would have to find a way to stop it in the middle of its travel to get the yellow indication.
You have to be kidding. You're shouting "HOLLY COW" (sic) at $300 for a fully operational automatic grade crossing circuit with flashing lights, gates, and a ringing bell? Well, duh, it's gonna be expensive.
If you want cheaper, how about eliminating the bell? Or eliminating the gates? Or eliminating the automatic feature that turns the lights on and drops the gates and just use a toggle to turn it on? Or heck, why don't you just put up some simple (and cheap) crossbucks instead of the most expensive grade crossing imaginable? You can even make them yourself for even less.Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Drop the sound and shop around and it would be less than $100. You might have to actually build some of the stuff yourself. (like the detection circuit) Take a look at NJ International.http://www.njinternational.com/hoscale1.htm
I thought about action crossings for about 10 minutes a few years ago, then counted the road crossings on my 3 deck 29ft by 33 ft layout and decided there was no way I could afford it, even if I wanted to. So I am happy with dummy crossing signals and crossbucks. I have better ways to spend the money. But to each his own.
Bob
Of course you don't have to do them all at once.
If we added up the cost of each piece of rolling stock that makes up a train, we'd probably decide to take up fishing.
But we buy these things a few at a time, so it's not so daunting
Besides, if you bought everything you needed for all the crossings at once, by the time you got them all installed, something better might come along.
Do one, see how it goes. See if you can make part it yourself
There's not government mandate requiring you to replace them all before there's an accident at your crossings!
Eric
I wish I was a headlight
On a northbound train
I made My own grade crossing,Sure gates and lights and bells would be cool, But since I can't afford them Here's how I made mine...
I layed scribbed wood down for the road grade..
taped it off..
layed down some wall plaster..
after painting..
This complete grade crossing probably cost me about $5.00...Plus I have enough material left to do a dozen more..
And then some very inexpensive crossbucks, I made them from tooth picks painted silver and some signs printed up on My PC...
Paul3 If you want cheaper, how about .. eliminating the automatic feature that turns the lights on and drops the gates and just use a toggle to turn it on?
If you want cheaper, how about .. eliminating the automatic feature that turns the lights on and drops the gates and just use a toggle to turn it on?
My planned crossing (the one not protected by crossbucks) will have a wig-wag signal operated with an off-off switch. Much, much simpler and inexpensive compared to an automated system. The layout is not a "roundy-roundy" with a train crossing every few seconds/minutes while a mesmerized operator/observor looks on. It will only be needed where a branchline terminal is switched and won't need to be turned on unless/until the operator makes certain switching moves.
Well if you are open to some homemade electronic-projects. Check out the "Model railroad electronic handbooks" by Rutger Friberg (published by Allt om hobby) there are some really nice stuff there that can save you big bucks!
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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If you want just the "look" of the crossing signal without all the bells and whistles (literally) and animation, there are a few static models available.
This Life-Like one is priced reasonably ($6.98 on sale) and looks halfway decent - much better than the cheap-o Bachmann variety, anyways. Not sure if this includes 1 or 2 units:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/433-1253
At least it could be used as a starting point to kitbash your own. You could probably add a scratchbuilt gate fairly easily. You could always add flashing LEDs later on as well.
Some other options, but a little more pricey:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/525-1095
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/525-1164
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/538-113
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Some years ago at a GATS show I bought a crossing flasher kit from Marson Electronics of Seattle for around $40. The kit included the two flashers and a circuit board along with three sensors. The sensors detect the train by light being blocked from them. The flashers don't have gates just lights and crossbucks. The flashers alternate just like the prototype.
Go on Youtube and in westr Channel look for his video "Dads Layout". There is a couple of views of the crossing flashers there.
I'm not sure if Marson Electronics is still around or not but maybe a web search or a phonebook search for Seattle might find them.
Great Western Rwy fan, I don't think the OP is talking about the actual crossing (be it wood, concrete, rubber, etc) - BLMA, Walthers, and others (heck, even plain old scale wood & plaster/putty etc like you used) have that covered at pretty reasonable prices (even for 3 dozen crossings) - it's the Crossing Signals/Gates/detectors that are the costly problems, at least if you want them ready made and operating. Those can run into some money per crossing as stated in the OP.
As for street lamps, I was digging through my folder of clipped articles, and one article concerned one modeling Mercury-Vapor street lamps using white/blue LEDs, some thin brass tubing (for the light mast arm), and some putty (to model the lamp head) - I'll look up the article and publication date later today if anyone cares, but that seemed a cheap way to model 'Cup' style street lamps (which is why I saved the article). Probably some similar ideas on the web...
MTH is coming out with one that lists for about $179.95 list. It looks like it includes everything in one package: under-the-track light sensors, bell, crossbucks, working motorized gates etc. all pretty much ready to install on the layout.
See page 42 of their current catalogue....
http://www.mthhotrains.com/catalog/2009HOV2Catalog.pdf
That item list does sound expensive. I have one (count them, ONE) spot on my layout which might justify a big layout of money, time, effort for crossing signals. My mainline coming across a causeway to an island, and passing Seawall Boulevard, regionally-famous bathing beach, nationally-notorious nightclub gambling pier, amusement part district. And only mainline trains pass that point, not switching. Not a priority but it would be nice...
Did you include teh detection unit to activate it? I don't see it listed in your post. You can a pretty good one for about $50.
Ricky Keil
A standard prototype road crossing cost about $100,000.00 nowadays, so modeling the prototype in HO being 87 times smaller should cost $1149.43. Looks to me that $300.00 for gates and flashers is a bargan. I use dummy 5.00 wigwag signals and pretend they work.
steamage A standard prototype road crossing cost about $100,000.00 nowadays, so modeling the prototype in HO being 87 times smaller should cost $1149.43. Looks to me that $300.00 for gates and flashers is a bargan. I use dummy 5.00 wigwag signals and pretend they work.
But Bruce, the road crossing is actually 1/658503 the actual size (1/87 the height * 1/87th the width and * 1/87th the depth) of the prototype by volume. Therefore, a truly scale model with a fully scaled down price should only cost a bit over 15 cents.
It gets even better in N scale. The same road crossing should only cost a bit over 2 cents (actually $0.024). N scale is 1/4096000 the size of the prototype by volume.
You've been getting ripped off.
Andre
wjstix MTH is coming out with one that lists for about $179.95 list. It looks like it includes everything in one package: under-the-track light sensors, bell, crossbucks, working motorized gates etc. all pretty much ready to install on the layout. See page 42 of their current catalogue.... http://www.mthhotrains.com/catalog/2009HOV2Catalog.pdf
Good find! Can't wait for those to come out. MTH is really starting to impress me, I hope their engine roster keeps growing.
I also have thought about two crossings. The one on one side of the layout has just a pair of crossbucks, because of the expense.. At that location there is three tracks, one of whichis a yard lead.
The C&O had a similar situation in Walbridge and they put up crossbucks in the middle of the road with a large round yellow RR Crossing sine with a big X across it, and a pair of vertical yellow flashing lights. The mainline track as well as the yard lead crossed there. When a freight was going across the road, or a switching move a member of the train crew would flag the crossing. When a mainline job went across the tracks, they just did the standard --.- whistle. I also closed two crossings with barrels, and railings and road closed signs. Old crossings are also torn out and some of the left overs from the removals are still not cleared from the right-o-way, Must be the NYC just before PC happened.
The other I installed a set of flashing crossbucks on a toggle switch, with an electronic bell that rings until the thing times out. The controls are fascia mounted with on a plate with a toggle for the flasher and a push button next to that for the bell. It is a street that goes in front of the passanger station with one through passanger track, a double track mainline, and a spur leading to the freight house. So that would be four tracks, so in my mind the crossing flagman would flag the crossing when necessary, but if a passanger train is in the station the thing wont be on forever, it is as if the crossing flagman is in control of the crossing. How about that, just like they would do in real life. Still that one installation runs around $100, in HO with good premade flashing crossbucks and good premade electronics. I am sure you could scratchbuild both the electronics and flashers, but my time is worth more than that, so sometime I don't go to the effort of etching my own circuitboard...ya know!
Of course that wouldn't work in a contemporary setting because it is very expensive to employ people that way, but cheep to install an automatic crossing. Some train crews probably consist of one person in some situations, so who on the train crew could flag the crossing. Since I use wireless throttles I pretend the guy running the train is also the flagger. He is already wearing about five hats, why not one more? All that being said, this hobby is what you want it to be, and the guy with the toothpicks, and the computer generated crossbucks is no more or less happy, nor correct than I, with my installation. He is also $99.50 richer than me.
Paul Dayton and Mad River RR
Santa Fe all the way!Last night I got out my trusty Walthers catalog and priced what it would cost to put ONE railroad crossing on my layout. HOLLY COW. I know that Walthers is full retail, but man, what if you need several! Heres how it breaks down. Tomar crossing with gates $150, flasher unit $30, bell with assoc.electronics $100, Tortoise machine $18, am I missing anything. For a fully animated crossing with sound your looking at almost $300!! Thats ONE crossing. Is there a way of doing the same thing cheaper?
Last night I got out my trusty Walthers catalog and priced what it would cost to put ONE railroad crossing on my layout. HOLLY COW. I know that Walthers is full retail, but man, what if you need several! Heres how it breaks down. Tomar crossing with gates $150, flasher unit $30, bell with assoc.electronics $100, Tortoise machine $18, am I missing anything. For a fully animated crossing with sound your looking at almost $300!! Thats ONE crossing. Is there a way of doing the same thing cheaper?
A well protected grade crossing puts on such a wonderful light show that I want one. The one on West Wyoming Ave, Melrose MA has cross bucks with flashers, gates, and flashing lights on the gates. I want one like it.
I think I have to scratch build it to get the cost down out of the stratosphere. Perhaps a phototransistor on each side to trigger things when a train shades the photo transistor from either room light or the light from an IR LED camouflaged as a street light or something. A two transistor bistable multivibrator circuit for the flasher. Put half the LED's in the collector circuit of one transistor and the other half in the other collector and they will flash alternately. A retriggerable one shot in the photo transitor circuit to keep the flasher flashing even if the photo transistor sees brief flashes of light inbetween cars.
Years ago MR had an article on "memory wire". It contracted when hot, and not much current would get it good and hot. It had enough oomph to work crossing gates and semaphores. It's gotta be cheaper than Tortoises.
Find inexpensive plastic gates and crossbucks (Bachmann perhaps) or scratch build them out of brass. I just finished scratch building a non operational station train order semaphore. With the right jigs to hold all the parts together while soldering, it came out OK, not great but OK. Use the brass to conduct electricity to the LEDs.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Whatever happened to "electronic projects for model railroaders"? You know, the information that allows somebody to build something from parts that does what you want? I seem to remeber fully animated crossings costing about $15 in over the counter electronic supply store parts.
We have gone from building to buying. Yes it will cost more to buy ready made. The choice is if you want to save money and have what you want and are willing to build, or if you just want to plug and play. If you want to plug and play, then open the eelskin and set your Franklins free.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
If someone is interested in a cheaper crossing-kit look at this:
http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flNlc3Npb249UDkwV0dBVEU6Q19BR0FURTE3OjAwMDMuMDEyOS4xZGMxZDU4MCZ+aHR0cF9jb250ZW50X2NoYXJzZXQ9aXNvLTg4NTktMSZ+U3RhdGU9MjQ1ODc1Mjk3====?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&mfhelp=&p_selected_area=%24ROOT&p_selected_area_fh=&perform_special_action=&glb_user_js=Y&shop=B2C&vgl_artikel_in_index=&product_show_id=&p_page_to_display=DirektSearch&~cookies=1&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=65&s_haupt_kategorie=&p_searchstring=&p_searchstring_artnr=245257&p_searchstring_manufac_artnr=&p_search_category=alle&fh_directcall=&r3_matn=&insert_kz=&gvlon=&area_s_url=&brand=&amount=&new_item_quantity=&area_url=&direkt_aufriss_area=&p_countdown=&p_80=&p_80_category=&p_80_article=&p_next_template_after_login=&mindestbestellwert=&login=&password=&bpemail=&bpid=&url=&show_wk=&use_search=3&p_back_template=&template=&kat_save=&updatestr=&vgl_artikel_in_vgl=&titel=&darsteller=®isseur=&anbieter=&genre=&fsk=&jahr=&jahr2=&dvd_error=X&dvd_empty_error=X&dvd_year_error=&call_dvd=&kna_news=&p_status_scenario=&documentselector=&aktiv=&gewinnspiel=&p_load_area=$ROOT&p_artikelbilder_mode=&p_sortopt=&page=&p_catalog_max_results=20
Or this:
http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flNlc3Npb249UDkwV0dBVEU6Q19BR0FURTE3OjAwMDMuMDEyOS4xZGMxZDU4MCZ+aHR0cF9jb250ZW50X2NoYXJzZXQ9aXNvLTg4NTktMSZ+U3RhdGU9MjQ1ODc1Mjk3====?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&mfhelp=&p_selected_area=%24ROOT&p_selected_area_fh=&perform_special_action=&glb_user_js=Y&shop=B2C&vgl_artikel_in_index=&product_show_id=&p_page_to_display=DirektSearch&~cookies=1&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=65&s_haupt_kategorie=&p_searchstring=&p_searchstring_artnr=240618&p_searchstring_manufac_artnr=&p_search_category=alle&fh_directcall=&r3_matn=&insert_kz=&gvlon=&area_s_url=&brand=&amount=&new_item_quantity=&area_url=&direkt_aufriss_area=&p_countdown=&p_80=&p_80_category=&p_80_article=&p_next_template_after_login=&mindestbestellwert=&login=&password=&bpemail=&bpid=&url=&show_wk=&use_search=3&p_back_template=&template=&kat_save=&updatestr=&vgl_artikel_in_vgl=&titel=&darsteller=®isseur=&anbieter=&genre=&fsk=&jahr=&jahr2=&dvd_error=X&dvd_empty_error=X&dvd_year_error=&call_dvd=&kna_news=&p_status_scenario=&documentselector=&aktiv=&gewinnspiel=&p_load_area=$ROOT&p_artikelbilder_mode=&p_sortopt=&page=&p_catalog_max_results=20
These are from Conrad in Germany, you get a lot of electronics for your money here, I think!
rjake4454,You're impressed with the MTH grade crossing? I'm not.
1). The red and white stripes on the gate arms should be of equal size.2). The "Two Crossings" sign should say "2 Tracks".3). The blank white sign under the red lights should read "Stop On Red Signal" or be absent.4). The gate arms should have red lights mounted on them...even dummy lights would be better than none at all.5). The "Look Out for the Locomotive" lettering on the crossbucks is really old (I know I've never seen one in "real life"). If that lettering is present, the stripes on the gates probably should be black, not red. Otherwise, it should just say "Rail Road Crossing".6). There should be another pair of red lights on the back side of each signal.7). I'm not too sure on those signal bases, either. They seem a little large, or at least a little crude (looking at the seams around it).
No thanks, MTH. That effort may be good enough in "3-rail Land", but not in HO (and not for $180).
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Paul3 rjake4454,You're impressed with the MTH grade crossing? I'm not. 1). The red and white stripes on the gate arms should be of equal size.2). The "Two Crossings" sign should say "2 Tracks".3). The blank white sign under the red lights should read "Stop On Red Signal" or be absent.4). The gate arms should have red lights mounted on them...even dummy lights would be better than none at all.5). The "Look Out for the Locomotive" lettering on the crossbucks is really old (I know I've never seen one in "real life"). If that lettering is present, the stripes on the gates probably should be black, not red. Otherwise, it should just say "Rail Road Crossing".6). There should be another pair of red lights on the back side of each signal.7). I'm not too sure on those signal bases, either. They seem a little large, or at least a little crude (looking at the seams around it). No thanks, MTH. That effort may be good enough in "3-rail Land", but not in HO (and not for $180). Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Well, I'm not the most reliable guy when it comes to prototypical stuff, I mean, a few days ago, I was considering using plastic kit risers for grades.
The MTH system just caught my eye because everything seemed 'plug n' play', of course for the list of defects you mentioned, the price is steep and unreasonable.
Lately I've had this craze for searching for HO vintage stuff, not as flashy as MTH, but more realistic, the problem is, I can't find anything I want, its all long gone. I jumped in the hobby to late. So MTH keeps tempting me with this stuff, releasing rare locos and passenger sets, operating marker lamps, but their smoke gimmick and crew talk/chatter sound bites do not impress me. I think HO could do without these, not to mention the wide space between tender and loco.
I bought my first O gauge train recently, but that was EXPENSIVE. HO is more in my price range, but it seems MTH is taking over. I don't think thats a good thing, but I'm trying to adjust. I hope BLI can keep up, this is my favorite company.