I think that the main reason that you see so many 2nd generation locomotives and even 2nd and 3rd hand 1st generation locomotives is simple, new ones cost a whole heap of money, and if the older ones still work (case in point: the SD40 and SD40-2), then why in the world replace it with new when there is still life left in the old? I think that the majority of the Class 1's in the country follow the addage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I think it's all a mind set. I would tend to agree more with those that say a modern RR would be set in the 80's to present, but at the same time I remind myself of all the lokes used. My '09 Trains Magazine calander has one pit of a CSX GP30 slug leading a MU consist with 2 other lokes, as mentioned many short lines still use 1st gen diesels, a few months issues back Trains Magazine that had a special gran handling issue. It had an article that was dedicated to some 'odd' ball lokes that were used as switchers at grain elevators. All photos were recent, one complex used a GP9, another used a rebuilt GP7 with a chop nose, another used an S6, and yet another used a Plymouth MDT.
CN runs behind my house and I've seen a world of lokes being used there. GP38's, a WC GP35 and MP15's, a few WC MP15's in CN paint, lets see...the one GT loke found out was a rebuilt GP9, a hand full of SD75I's, a few that I believed to be GP40F's but of course I didn't have my camera, and I have pics of 3 different BNSF Dash 9's and one that I believe to be an SD70MAC.
It can't be argued that today is a modern time, yet I myself have a wolrd of 2nd gen diesel pics, and even a few newer ones (3rd gen?).
Just my worth
FlashwaveFrom what I';ve learned, In most cases that's true, but it is usually assumed that :"Modern" is the 80s-to now, the way Transition is the 40s-50s-(60s?) unless the context of the sentencence applies otherwise. If I guy is talking about a steam layout and says a modern facility, than your right to raise he flag.
You left out the 1970s.
I would say the 'modern' era began when US and Canadian railways were fully dieselized (early 1960s). More powerful (and also low-nose) freight diesels appeared on the scene, centralized traffic control and automated hump yards became more common on major railways, freight cars were getting bigger and longer (e.g. 55' ACF centerfow hoppers and 33,000 gallon 'whale body' tank cars), major railways were merging or taking over smaller lines, etc.
I would refer to the 1960s and 1970s as the 'early modern' era, where diesel locomotives and freight cars from the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s were still in use on major railways.
The 'late modern' era began in the 1980s, where the 1930s-1950s era locos and cars were scrapped and major railways were beginning to acquire a 'third generation' of diesel locomotives to replace the second generation power acquired in the 1960s. Branch lines were abandoned or sold to short lines, there were even more mergers and takeovers of smaller roads, and the industry was deregulated (e.g. The Staggers Act in the US). And one more thing - the railways lost a lot of their business to trucking, so much that most railways prefer to haul bulk commodities such as grain, coal, lumber, etc. And if the railways were to haul general freight, it would be over long distances and in containers, not box cars. The branch line and the industrial switcher were pretty much on the way out, and since the early 1980s most of the major railways in the US and Canada have been buying large six axle motive power.
Yesterday I saw EMDX 741 here in Prosper, TX. According to the 'Net, it was built in 1972. OTOH, I frequently see shiny new rolling stock that looks just like model RR cars and engines out of the box. So that would give me a wide variety of ages of equipment to model if I were modeling the BNSF Madill Sub in the current era.
My own model RR is set in southeastern Utah in the "now." My goal is to model the Gilluly Loops located there. The last time I visited the Loops I saw a D&RGW tunnel motor along with more recently built power. My current six-axle is a BNSF SD40-2, so I think it "fits," although I'm not a stickler for prototype correctness by any means.
I, too, have wondered about the lack of modern-era model RRs in MR, but I can't add anything to the suggested answers posted above.
TrainManTy,Modern Southern New England Railroading is only interesting because it's better than nothing. Compared to what the NH was doing, it's a pale, pale reflection of former glory.
For example, on the Shore Line (between Boston and NYC), the New Haven used to operate dozens of symbol freights up and down the line every day. Trains like the Speed Witch, the Cannonball, the Round Up, and others (some with some not-so-flattering nicknames like "The Midnight Horror").
Today, there is only one symbol freight in all of the former-NH's territory, a CSOR train from Cedar Hill to Springfield. The rest of the freight service is all local freights.About the only thing that can be called better is the passenger service. All cars are air conditioned, the Acela is whipping by at 150mph...but it's all pretty boring. Why? The MBTA has 3 different kinds of locos for mainline trains: F40PH, F40PH-2C, and GP40MC. The NH would operate with 3 different engines on the same train...from different manufacturers!Sorry, but modern Southern New England RR'ing is pretty darn dull.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Well, I do have one source for information like that, Barry. My Father-in-law grew up here in Troy, and he remembers things like where the old passenger station was (the freight station is still standing, but unused) and he remembers the arrangement of the track as it used to be, but what he doesnt' remember is things like how many trains, what typically was on the head end, and stuff like that because he wasn't all that interested in trains.
BamaCSX83 Well, at least we're in the same boat on that one. Good thing about stuff like MapQuest and Google Earth is that you can sometimes get in nice and close and follow the rails (and sometimes even follow old roadbeds to get a better understanding of where things used to be), and I've been able to find some old system maps that show where the tracks are/were, but again, that's very generic, meanwhile I'd love to find something specific.
Well, at least we're in the same boat on that one. Good thing about stuff like MapQuest and Google Earth is that you can sometimes get in nice and close and follow the rails (and sometimes even follow old roadbeds to get a better understanding of where things used to be), and I've been able to find some old system maps that show where the tracks are/were, but again, that's very generic, meanwhile I'd love to find something specific.
I've used both of those and still used old post cards, photos, old books/mss, and old topo maps--they do come in handy-----
another way is to find--ha!! as if!!---someone who has enough of a memory of that area that s/he could give you information to go on! I've found two people who lived near the area I've set one of the service yards---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
I can find a ton of general information, but nothing horribly specific. I've seen some old photos from the steam and steam/diesel transition eras and while the photos are wonderful to look at, they were typically taken at the old station which I know where it was, so no big deal there, and don't really show a whole lot of the rest of the area.
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Ain't that the truth..I had to resort to old post cars,hard to find aerial view pictures,a old railroad Offical Guide and micro filmed news papers just to find the exact location of the Bucyrus PRR station..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Brakie, you're absolutely right, there is a wealth of information out there on the computer, I've looked, but there isn't much as far as specifics about my area (my layout is modelled on the city I live in). I can find a ton of general information, but nothing horribly specific. I've seen some old photos from the steam and steam/diesel transition eras and while the photos are wonderful to look at, they were typically taken at the old station which I know where it was, so no big deal there, and don't really show a whole lot of the rest of the area.
I do have a huge affectation for steam locomotives, I'd love to see some of them up close and personal (in particular I wouldn't mind seeing UP 3895 thundering past me pulling a train of modern rolling stock, not coaches). My thing is that I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so all of the trains I saw were diesels, in fact, most of them were either CSX/predecessors and NS coming into and out of Montgomery, AL. I even remember when Amtrak flew through (wish they still did, they were always fun to watch), so I model what I remember and what I see today living in Troy, AL (about 50-ish miles south of Montgomery), which are modern, high-power diesels pulling mixed manifests, unit grain, unit rock, and autoracks between Montgomery and Dothan. I guess if I could simply find more research, I could do more with an older era.....oh well.
Autobus Prime*Rest of post deleted to save space* You find milk trains, the great limiteds, RPOs, tons of local passenger trains, local freights, plenty of switching at local industries and other customers, hundreds of Class 1 roads. Plenty of tiny villages had coal yards and oil dealers, lumber yards and feed mills, freight stations and team track. Now the stack trains just fly through. You find steam, and if you're before the diesels, it's doing the job it was built for. A lot of people don't understand the fascination with steam, but Youtube has lots of great videos that can help. Watch some Chinese QJs at work there, starting heavy trains, slipping on grades, just clanking by, and picture that spectacle on every train. We'll never see that show again, and that alone is worth the trip back.. But there's more than the trains. There were section crews and their work sheds everywhere, engine terminals full of activity (steam needs a lot of attention!). There were all those stations in Chicago, and a depot in most every town. A lot of those bare foundations had a building on them. A lot of those rows of empty bridges, with one or two tracks carrying the stack trains, carried a row of tracks. The cities and the trolleys hadn't been abandoned for the suburbs and the freeways.
*Rest of post deleted to save space*
You find milk trains, the great limiteds, RPOs, tons of local passenger trains, local freights, plenty of switching at local industries and other customers, hundreds of Class 1 roads. Plenty of tiny villages had coal yards and oil dealers, lumber yards and feed mills, freight stations and team track. Now the stack trains just fly through. You find steam, and if you're before the diesels, it's doing the job it was built for. A lot of people don't understand the fascination with steam, but Youtube has lots of great videos that can help. Watch some Chinese QJs at work there, starting heavy trains, slipping on grades, just clanking by, and picture that spectacle on every train. We'll never see that show again, and that alone is worth the trip back..
But there's more than the trains. There were section crews and their work sheds everywhere, engine terminals full of activity (steam needs a lot of attention!). There were all those stations in Chicago, and a depot in most every town. A lot of those bare foundations had a building on them. A lot of those rows of empty bridges, with one or two tracks carrying the stack trains, carried a row of tracks. The cities and the trolleys hadn't been abandoned for the suburbs and the freeways.
I completely agree with you! Back in the day, my hometown boasted a trolley line and a regular rail line, and had two stations and a carbarn. Now the railroad and both stations are underwater (long story), the trolley barn was demolished and the foundations paved over, and the only remains of anything is a dozen or so photos, and this spike: http://s233.photobucket.com/albums/ee261/TrainManTy/?action=view¤t=IMG_3855.jpg
I wish I could go back to those days...
But the modern era has its draws too, especially for those who grew up in it...
BamaCSX83 I guess that my big hitch is the simple fact that everywhere I look for information on the older eras of railroading for the area that I want to model, I can't find anything. Now if I were modelling Donner Pass, or the Horseshoe Curve, or a big city area, I could find more infomation than I would ever need, but sometimes there's just not enough information on an area in order to accurately model it. Then again, I guess when modelling the older eras, I should probably go with the older railroads, but from what I know the tracks that come through are CSX, were SBD, and before that I think that they were either COG, or SAL, but I can't be sure because I can't find the information to really support what I need to know. Meanwhile if the tracks that came through were say, UP, I could probably find every hint of information on them that I would ever want to know, including how many spikes were missed, ect, ect (little bit of exaggeration, but I'm sure y'all get my point).
I guess that my big hitch is the simple fact that everywhere I look for information on the older eras of railroading for the area that I want to model, I can't find anything. Now if I were modelling Donner Pass, or the Horseshoe Curve, or a big city area, I could find more infomation than I would ever need, but sometimes there's just not enough information on an area in order to accurately model it. Then again, I guess when modelling the older eras, I should probably go with the older railroads, but from what I know the tracks that come through are CSX, were SBD, and before that I think that they were either COG, or SAL, but I can't be sure because I can't find the information to really support what I need to know. Meanwhile if the tracks that came through were say, UP, I could probably find every hint of information on them that I would ever want to know, including how many spikes were missed, ect, ect (little bit of exaggeration, but I'm sure y'all get my point).
Thanks to the computer there are tons of information on the web..Libraries and the local historical society has more information.
Research takes time,commitment and in some cases a trip through the area you plan to model but,the end results is well worth the time spent.
I did some research on the NYC/T&OC here in Bucyrus and was surprise to learn a local worked out of Bucyrus as late as 9/1/1976..I seen a picture of a CR Geep sitting in the former T&OC/NYC yard.
BamaCSX83 I'd say that you wouldn't model the warped and twisted rails simply because unlike a real locomotive or piece of rolling stock, the model is simply too light for what it is and would derail. At least that's how I perceive it, espeically considering all the times that I hear about people getting this really nice, high-dollar car or locomotive and the only thing that it will run on is absolutely straight, perfect rail.....
I'd say that you wouldn't model the warped and twisted rails simply because unlike a real locomotive or piece of rolling stock, the model is simply too light for what it is and would derail. At least that's how I perceive it, espeically considering all the times that I hear about people getting this really nice, high-dollar car or locomotive and the only thing that it will run on is absolutely straight, perfect rail.....
Actually, you're not all that far off---that's why my shortline--one of the story lines for the shortline I have--talks about how they spent millions of dollars investing in the infrastructure of the RR in the first place. To make it a safe environment to work in. Hence I've yet to have major derailments on my RR. And the warbles on the branchlines I've mentioned in N scale would be something to behold.
CNJ831In counterpoint, most RR properties and their environs in the 1960's were far from well maintained and pristine (i.e. many portions of the New Haven's mainline right-of-way in that period looked more like they were run on rails set in just plain dirt, rather than ballasted tackage and it was often difficult to define the color scheme of their locomotives beyond a general classification of dirt brown!).
Some of the branchlines in Saskatchewan, Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska, Manitoba literally were down on the ground by the 60's/70's. I also have wonderful pix of warped RR's, rails that were just floating over the ties, rails with no ties--or at least what could be seen certainly LOOKED like there were no ties, junk all over--even with regs in place telling you to keep jobsites clean---OY.
Just picture how you'd model those rails in the above conditions then think how many derailments you'd have.
TrainManTy I don't know why everyone has such a bias against the modern era... I bet people back in the "golden ages" thought it was pretty darn boring back then too! It's all a matter of perspective... Sure, unit trains might not be as varied as the old manifests, but there are still plenty of neat railroads to model that run manifest trains with unique locomotives. And the Class 1s can have some variety as well. Just in my local area there's CSX, with a couple manifests and often some interesting power, the Providence & Worcester Railroad, with GP40-2s, older GE Dash-7s and 8s (including some ex-BN cabless B units), with some of everything (manifests, intermodel, and the odd coal train), the Grafton & Upton (once it goes back into service) will have a CF7 and a few GP7/9 units, and until this winter they had an Alco S4 and a couple GE 44/70 tonners. Pan Am Railways has a bunch of EMD GP40-series locomotives, and lots of older power. NS will be running a few trains too, as part of the Patriot Corridor agreement. In addition, both Amtrak and the MBTA run passenger trains, with F40PH-2Cs, GP40MCs, and P42s showing up around here every day. Maybe your local area doesn't have as much variety, but modern railroads are still interesting, if you know what to look for... Also, if it helps... I just finished the first draft of an article on my (modern) layout for Model Railroader, so there will probably be at least one modern article in the next year or two, depending on how long it takes me to finish the layout enough to look good in photos...
I don't know why everyone has such a bias against the modern era... I bet people back in the "golden ages" thought it was pretty darn boring back then too! It's all a matter of perspective...
Sure, unit trains might not be as varied as the old manifests, but there are still plenty of neat railroads to model that run manifest trains with unique locomotives. And the Class 1s can have some variety as well.
Just in my local area there's CSX, with a couple manifests and often some interesting power, the Providence & Worcester Railroad, with GP40-2s, older GE Dash-7s and 8s (including some ex-BN cabless B units), with some of everything (manifests, intermodel, and the odd coal train), the Grafton & Upton (once it goes back into service) will have a CF7 and a few GP7/9 units, and until this winter they had an Alco S4 and a couple GE 44/70 tonners. Pan Am Railways has a bunch of EMD GP40-series locomotives, and lots of older power. NS will be running a few trains too, as part of the Patriot Corridor agreement. In addition, both Amtrak and the MBTA run passenger trains, with F40PH-2Cs, GP40MCs, and P42s showing up around here every day.
Maybe your local area doesn't have as much variety, but modern railroads are still interesting, if you know what to look for...
Also, if it helps... I just finished the first draft of an article on my (modern) layout for Model Railroader, so there will probably be at least one modern article in the next year or two, depending on how long it takes me to finish the layout enough to look good in photos...
TTY:
Well, they couldn't have thought it was that boring, since they started this hobby and all. :)
I don't have a bias against modern railroading. Trains are still fun to watch, and it's a much less depressing time than the 1970s must have been...everybody thought the railroads were dying out. Much of the post-WW1 "golden age" is still with us, in fact, since our rail system is largely a skeletal core of the 1920 system. I just feel like there is so much more back there, particularly if you go back before the mainline diesels.
I could go on and on, but this is the kind of thing you just can't explain...you just have to catch it like a bug. I caught it when I realized that my favorite parts of the current railroad world are the numerous leftovers from that era. Apparently the virus is pretty virulent on old cinders!
I'll drop in my 2 cents on this question, along with some insight concerning layout appearance in different eras.
On the question of why so few "modern era" layouts are being depicted in the pages of MR, consider that the popularity of the truly modern era (post 1990) amongst hobbyists is really very low. For one thing, there 's a lot less character and far more individual sameness to today's railroading as compared to the great diversity in motive power, rolling stock and industries served, in the past. Likewise, the modern era probably doesn't hold a great deal of interest for you unless you are a relatively young hobbyist coming of age in this era. With the great resurgents of available HO big steam locomotives over the last decade, it is obvious that the Transition Era still reigns supreme as the most popular and most modeled.
As to the situations of urban/industrial appareance and physical condition, both Brakie and Autobus Prime are correct that all too often layouts are detailed to depict conditions that did not exist in the real world at the time in question, at least beyond perhaps highly localized situations. The 1930's enviroment was not an amalgem of wide spread filth, disrepair and ruin, as so often presented on period layouts, even some of the famous ones. In counterpoint, most RR properties and their environs in the 1960's were far from well maintained and pristine (i.e. many portions of the New Haven's mainline right-of-way in that period looked more like they were run on rails set in just plain dirt, rather than ballasted tackage and it was often difficult to define the color scheme of their locomotives beyond a general classification of dirt brown!).
Too often hobbyists create a fantasy enviroment to surround their trains, yet pass it off to visitors as a slice of reality. Instead, they should really take the time to research sufficient background info to make their layouts appear truly representative of the era they are depicting.
CNJ831
BRAKIE In fact every transition era layout I seen has been way to clean and tidy.The railroads property was filthy.The 50s was the beginning of the decay of railroads and the 60s the railroads continued their down hill spiral and decay was everywhere.
In fact every transition era layout I seen has been way to clean and tidy.The railroads property was filthy.The 50s was the beginning of the decay of railroads and the 60s the railroads continued their down hill spiral and decay was everywhere.
B:
...and, contrariwise, the 1930s layouts often look a lot worse than they should!
(It's funny that we're seeing a repeat of that now...the economy is pretty dire, and yet this run-down city is looking a lot better, as people mow and sweep and paint, for want of better things to do...)
I have photographs at home from that era showing the rails just popping up everytime locomotives went over them.
Warped and twisted--yes, twisted-- rails, try modeling that!
The infamous Penn Central video showing the condition of their yards and trackage. Although the area and era I'm modeling was not much better.
Half fallen down buildings in used to be yards.
Brownfields in steelmill towns---some mills started to close up in the late(?) 60's, IIRC.
RWM said:but from a railroader's perspective those years were a steady march toward the cemetery.----------------------------------------------
Absolutely! The "golden era" was not so "golden"..
dehusmanATLANTIC CENTRAL Pre-depression was truely the golden age, and the carry over from it is another reason I like modeling the early 50's. I would make a case that TODAY is the golden age of railroading. Its a terrible era to model, but from an industry standpoint its great. More tonnage, bigger trains, most productive, safest, cheapest, most versitile. I would agree that the 1910-1918 or the years immediately before the depression are probably the next most likely era for a "golden age".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Pre-depression was truely the golden age, and the carry over from it is another reason I like modeling the early 50's.
Pre-depression was truely the golden age, and the carry over from it is another reason I like modeling the early 50's.
I would make a case that TODAY is the golden age of railroading. Its a terrible era to model, but from an industry standpoint its great.
More tonnage, bigger trains, most productive, safest, cheapest, most versitile. I would agree that the 1910-1918 or the years immediately before the depression are probably the next most likely era for a "golden age".
I agree. The first golden age ended in 1906. After that it was a steady downhill to the 1980s. From a rail enthusiast perspective the 1920-1950 period looks "golden" because of the variety of equipment and the nostalgia of our youth, but from a railroader's perspective those years were a steady march toward the cemetery.
RWM
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Autobus PrimePelle Soeborg's work is great...but...it's nowhere I want to be. This hobby is a time machine. The dial says "Horseshoe Curve, 1938", and "By the Burger King, 2009". No contest!
Blame some of that on single use zoning. Industry here and commercial/retail there. And residential WWAAAAYY over there. Bet you won't see Mary hanging the wash out where a Denny's is. She's 3 blocks up --
The only issue I have with Soeborg's approach is that most of the time he seems to model areas that are not quite as "lively" as some I've seen from you guys or even myself. I'm not modeling the NE Corridor nor any of the milltowns of Mike Tylek's(sp?) or that--heck, I'm modeling the northern plains/southern prairie region here---but there is a little of the 'minimalistic' approach even then. I seen a few places driving though some of the old 66 highway that seemed a LITTLE more lived in than his streamlined layouts. AACCH! Maybe I've just got more scenery eyes than I thought--
BTW--Beachville ca 1960's had a very active quarry that used dynamite to blow up corners or walls of the quarry to break up the limestone. Every afternoon at approx. 3pm we kids would watch our pencils bounce around on our desks at school--we being only about 3 miles away----That would have been my modeling era if I didn't get into the prairie scene as much--
Autobus Prime (The golden age of rail was NOT the 1950s!)
(The golden age of rail was NOT the 1950s!)
I agree, it was actually the first modern age, the begining of all we have now. Radios, cushioned underframes, intermodal, disc brakes, and on and on.
Sheldon
And of course, every issue of Trains magazine contains articles on contemporary railroading, by definition.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Could it be that proto railroading has gotten a bit dull? I mean, how many articles can you write about modeling one of NS's 15,000 GE Dash 9's? (And by the way, it was GE's, not EMD's that were referred to derisively as Toasters... But that reference is antiquated, too! GE sold their small appliance division to Black and Decker over 20 years ago!)
And I agree that Pelle Soeberg's work is impeccable, but it's not a picture that I care to see. If I want to see Denny's and billboards and gasoline stations, I can go out to Route 50 in town, and see all I want. I built my layout to capture scenes that I remember, or missed. Or more often, it's to animate pictures that I've seen in various books and history journals.
And in some cases, it's a matter of "the more things change the more they stay the same..."
case in point... Conrail paint out working the west end of Enola, circa 1980 or so...
Conrail paint out working the west end of Enola, 2009.
Don't worry. There will be plenty of articles about modern railroading... just as soon as it's not modern anymore!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Yeah, I wouldn't mind shooting myself back to Troy, AL (where I live), in say....1950-1965 (of course if i did, I'd have to go with a lot of money, because I'd come back with a lot of cars). but alas, I haven't build a time machine yet, and I have no plans to do such, so I'll just stick to modelling the "contemporary" era.