Best roadbed

[nickatnet]

I'm in the process of building an N-scale layout. I'm using 1/2" Homasote for the sub-roadbed and AMI instant roadbed under the track. Very quiet and fast and easy to lay. No need for spikes or glue. Under the switch points I make a groove by pressing the side of a pencil across the roadbed. (Be sure to use a piece of wax paper under the pencil or it will stick.) Then I use a thin strip of black electrical tape in the groove for good measure. The points move freely. It takes some getting used to, as was said earlier, it's really sticky.

[Anonymous]

I have used cork, WS foam and both AMI and RR&F instant roadbed.

I purchased a roll and some strips of WS foam and I noticed that the strips were wider at the base. I am not sure if it was something in the manufacturing process or this is really the difference between the two.
If someone else has experienced this, please let me know.

The AMI is easy to work with and you can depress it below the turnout so the rails won't stick. It is flat though, so there is no ballast slope, whereas the RR&F has one, also it came it black or gray. (I'm not even sure if anyone sells this stuff anymore).
If you do use either of these, be aware, EVERYTHING sticks to them, so ballast it as soon as possible.

I like the ease of working with Midwest cork and have never really experienced the drying out problem.
If you do go with cork DO NOT buy that garbage (first word starts with an M and the second word starts with a P), it is stiffer and it very ragged after splitting.

[jghall]

I have a very large layout. I have cork (first glued & held with nails, then removed upon drying) for the main lines. I have homasote for the yards. Thirdly I use the AMI for macadam (sp) roads (I wasn't pleased with the profile look for roadbed. As for wear, I have had no trouble a in my norther basement with summer humidity & winter dryness. All are quieter than bare wood. I tried Homabed but found it less flexible than the cork. If cork dries out, it should not be an issue once set and ballasted. Reuse of any roadbed is difficult, even on the prototype.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Thisonejamie

I am only 14 and have no clue what to use i am very tight on money and i just want it to look good.


thanks.

That's great that someone young is into the model!!
I got started at 6yrs. age w/Marks-Trains <Similar to Lionel> but hated the 'Toyish-appearence' and wanted, even at age 'Realism.'
I went HO.
Experience. I've used all...AMI, Cork, Tru-Scale <wood> & WS <woodland scenics>
I have a 16" x 10' shelf layout and AMI- too-sticky... FOAM> mixed w/Ballasing great but nails don't hold-up well, used a 'Hot-Glue-Gun' BUT, make sure you don't want to change anything otherwise your've gotta' replace the foam...CORK>>Midwest Products 'THE-OL' RELABLE'like 'Soaking in Warm-Water' for several hours, pat-dry
and begin laying-down, Nailing in place here and it's a lot more Fexible-CHEAPER than all the above!
Hope that helps!
Happy 'Training!!

[selector]

And that, as they say, is that!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LVJJJ

Trains are naturally noisy, why would you want to quiet them down? I use cork roadbed for the look, if anything I hope I get more sound of the train running around the track, it is soooo soothing.

David Barrow uses wood (white Pine) for road bed - it's stable - sanded to the right thickness, hold's spikes - and is noisy. That's fine as far as it goes. As such, it mask's the more prototypical RR sound's eminating from a 3/4" speaker in an engine.

If one has 'sound', quieter roadbed becomes more desirable .The original question raised on this thread was 'What is the best roadbed - for absorbing sound'.

A. Track on double layer's of cork..

[LVJJJ]

Trains are naturally noisy, why would you want to quiet them down? I use cork roadbed for the look, if anything I hope I get more sound of the train running around the track, it is soooo soothing.

[Anonymous]

I have used all three on my layout. I prefer the Homabed, then AMI, and last is cork. They all are good, some just easier than others. AMI is easy to move if you goof up. Holds the track very well without having to use so many spikes. If sound is a issue, use Homasote as a sub base over plywood.

[Anonymous]

The HO C&NW Illinois Division, Sterling Subdivision, was constructed in the late 1970's. We used home-sawed 1/2" Homasote roadbed (don't do this indoors, even if you ARE a professional!), a little cork for sidings and some industries, and one spot directly on plywood.

At one spot, our double track on a curve had to intersect with the interchange railroad, so it was entirely handlaid. Unfortunately (or so we thought), we discovered that the trackwork was constructed on the SUB-roadbed (a la plywood) instead of on the Homasote! As it turned out, our goof-up is now a feature, a sound enhancement. To this day, when the RR room is on the quiet side and someone else's train hits this diamond, my head sometimes jerks around to see what just "hit the ground". If you've ever stood next to a 12"-to-the-foot crossing when a train's on it, the resemblance is striking.

Other than this exception, I agree with AntonioFP45 on the noise factor of plywood. Incidentally, unless trains are traveling at 70+mph, I don't notice any difference between cork and Homasote. I'm definitely going to look into Homabed; my own railroad room will start getting a house put on top of it next week.

[Anonymous]

Sorry...all this talk about roadbed and nails is getting me dizzy. Don Gibson is dead on...re-read his post. The type of roadbed has NOTHING to do with sound! Any GLUE that dries HARD will transmit the sound AROUND the roadbed to the subsurface (plywood?). If you want sound absorbancy then "adhere" your BALLAST with MATTE MEDIUM/GESSO (look in an art supply or craft store) NOT Elmer's. Matte Medium stays flexible yet holds for an eternity. It absorbs the sound because it stays flexible.

Second: Cork. The only bad thing said about it is that it "doesn't hold spikes". Once you "glue"/matte your ballast the spikes don't hold the track to the cork anyways. The solution again is "matte".

Third: What?? Sound in a room is a matter of absorbancy and reflections. Echos are caused by bouncing off of a hard surface. Quiet is created by absorbant materials. Loud sound from your on-board sound system is a combination of factors. One of which is the direction the speaker is pointed in. If it is pointed down then the roadbed (hard or flexible) will affect the volume. If it is pointed up then the roadbed and it's "matte" is NOT A FACTOR.

Last: ANY foam material is OUT. Foam or rubber products will degrade with time. Recently had to entirely redo a module because the foam had dissintegrated under the ballast. Like rotten wood, it was totally useless. The carpet underlayment is a recycled rubber product. It will dissintegrate with time. Homabed/Homasote is a good second to cork but moisture will make it puff up. This product is ok in humidity-non-sensitive geographic areas. I say these products are "dimensionally unstable".

[Clinty Boy]

G'day from down under!!!
What glue are you using to hold the ballast? PVA? If so, yes, cork will be noisier than foam. To beat this, try using artist's repositioning glue to glue the ballast down. (you know the rubbery stuff?) but to do this you will need to put the glue down BEFORE you put down the ballast. Unlike with watered down PVA which you drizzle or spray on to the already postioned ballast. This might help. I personally prefer just plain old rubber strips. The rubber strips used by tradies and such. It's kinda like rubber carpet underlay, but in strips instead of sheets. This stuff's awesome. It's not squishy, like foam, is soft enough to take a track nail, and is sound proof...and best of all, lasts a very long time.
By the way, to JCtrain: you asked if painting cork will slow the drying process...the short answer to this is...no. Why? The paint, as it dries, causes the cork to become brittle. As for using warm water, well this will only help to shape it untill it dries. Unfortunately, cork is wood so, like most wood, it will shrink after being wet. I know. I tried it with drastic consequences. If you want to preserve it a little longer, rub a bit oil into it. This will help, but like everything else on this planet, it will still degrade over time. I hope this has helped.

[selector]

Now we're talkin'! This is the type of idea that I have been looking for. Thanks, Bob.

[Bob Hayes]

At the suggestion of a friend who is into non-scale O gauge, I laid a 6 track yard using carpet padding. I glued it down using Elmer's, and painted it brown. The paint hides the bright colors in the padding. In moving cars around this yard, there is hardly any noise to be heard; just a little wheel/rail contact noise. I've since built a test/programing oval using this method, and all I can hear is the sound decoder. And it is CHEAP. I bought about 120 sq. ft for about $10. Could probably get it free now. Just cut it into approx. 1.5" wide strips and glue it down. It will curve around 30" curves with no problem. If you need to go sharper, just cut the strips narrower. I used caulk to glue the track down.
Bob Hayes

[bobwhitten]

On my narrow gauge layout, 6 X 13 feet, the engines are small and the curves very tight. I used Woodland Scenics foam and have had good success. To allow the foam to fit curves easily, I cut strips from the WS sheets (narrow gauge style) with the width equalling 1/2 the Shinohara tie length and placed these on solid splined track sub-roadbed with quick-dry contact cement which was applied with a 1" x 1" enamel roller (made from a 3" version and rollers saw cut). The Shinohara flex-track was applied in the same manner. I believe that the noise level will depend a great deal on the sub-roadbed. Best of luck.

Bob

[Anonymous]

I've used Homabed for more than fifteen years with no problems. Glue it down (only as much as necessary to hold it in place) with either white (not carpenters') glue or Goo or adhesive for bllue foam. Give it a liberal coat of any cheap latex paint (your basic ground color for underneath the scenery or some gray) to seal it. Then lay the track and balast it. Now problem holding spikes. I have found it stable in a family room setting with no separations or problems. Using white glue (or the others) makes it easy to scrape off and relocate if you change your layout plan. Hope this helps. Build it slowly and enjoy your layout..

[nobullchitbids]

I also am a fan of Tru-Scale: It is white pine, which is among the best material for holding spikes and nails over time. I have been warned by other professionals that products like cork or homasote cannot be recommended for long-term service -- they dry out, warp, or deteriorate -- but I have no direct experience to add to these caveats.

One thing I do want to experiment with some day is a combination of Tru-Scale and cork -- while the TruScale is sold as "roadbed," it really represents only the ballast. If cork "roadbed" is split and affixed with the halves apart, forming a channel in the middle for wiring buses, the Tru-Scale readily could be positioned atop it to complete an accurate prototypical "roadbed" profile. Theoretically, the cork further would dampen the sound of the pine board, but a question I have (which only experiment can solve) is whether the channel coupled with any screws or nails affixing the Tru-Scale to the plywood would create a sounding board rather than a muffle chamber.

Anyone tried this previously? What were your results?

[selector]

AntonioFP45, done. Thanks for the suggestion. [^]

Don, thanks for addressing this with your experience. I may just rip everything up and do as you suggest....in the fall. I really do not like to have my QSI volume as high as it is, but I can barely hear the flange noise when I activate it unless my setting is fairly high. [V]

[Don Gibson]

To expand on the above: At one time HOMOSOTE was king. It was insulation for buildings and offered sound insulation when layed on top of plywood. Locomotives with small speakers were very limited to very few do-it-yourself'ers with 'PFM' or 'On Board' Sound systems. $$$$

Tiny 1" or less speakers are limited by how much air they can move, and so as not to be competing with motor vibration, certain steps need to be taken with that in mind.
If you use any plywood sheet's they act as a soundboard for any vibrating source above.Think of it like a sandwich. A vibrating motor above and a soundboard underneath ,with insulation in between.

Let's Say, Cork: Putting a hard glue on a soft sound absorbing cork surfacecompromises it's sound absorbancy. Contrarily, It create's a 2nd sound radiating surface.

Putting nails through the cork into the plywood is OK, but not through the track, into the plywood, (that transmitt's sound). The idea is to DECOUPLE.the vibrating track from any 'Soundboard'.

Laying track on a double layer of cork is 'sweet'. (No ballast with 'hard' glue).

[Don Gibson]

Go with CORK.

Any drying out is minimal. Homosote is pressed carboard - and delaminates with moisture.

FOR SOUND , use 'RUBBER BASED ADHSIVES such as 3M or Matte Medium for securing cork, track, and ballast. Hard glues such as ELMER'S negate it's sound absorbing properties - as does nails that couple the track to the plywood 'sounbdboard' underneath.

I've been doing (Soundtraxx) on-board sound pre- DCC, and I use double thickness cork (O guage + HO ) for realistic double profile, and super quiet..

Better looking! Better running!

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

I'm beginning to wonder if glueing down the ballast is such a good idea. I have only glued the top 1/2" so that it forms a protective shell to the still-loose stuff below it. My road is still quite noisy.

It would be a great help if someone (or a team of someones) spent a week of nights and did a trial with various combinations of sub-roadbeds and roadbeds, anchored and non-anchored, glued and non-glued to see how each does at quietening things up. It would be a boon for those of us who have sound to not to have to keep the volume quite so high so as to hear flange squeel, for example, above the truck noise.

Just thinking.

Why doesn't MR tackle this type of project? As a magazine dedicated to our craft, you would think they'd do comparisons, or hire someone to do it and to report.

Selector. You have a very good idea, but don't sit on it! Make the effort.

Click on this link: [e-mail]
When it opens up, write your suggestion.
On the Subject line, write: Attention Bergie and Andy Sperandeo. You will likely get a response within 24 hours.

Let us know your results.[:)][:D][8D][;)]

[selector]

I'm beginning to wonder if glueing down the ballast is such a good idea. I have only glued the top 1/2" so that it forms a protective shell to the still-loose stuff below it. My road is still quite noisy.

It would be a great help if someone (or a team of someones) spent a week of nights and did a trial with various combinations of sub-roadbeds and roadbeds, anchored and non-anchored, glued and non-glued to see how each does at quietening things up. It would be a boon for those of us who have sound to not to have to keep the volume quite so high so as to hear flange squeel, for example, above the truck noise.

Just thinking.

Why doesn't MR tackle this type of project? As a magazine dedicated to our craft, you would think they'd do comparisons, or hire someone to do it and to report.

[Anonymous]

It's not just the roadbedthat's a factor with noise generation on the layout. What's the benchwork / sheeting made of? A couple years ago I built a layout using waferboard (OSB) for the "table" and laid cork for the roadbed. Where the track was elevated I used blue foam. When I started ballasting there was a DRAMATIC noise difference between the cork on OSB and the cork on foam. Without ballasting the cork was quiet on the OSB. Once I ballasted it, it rumbled to beat the band.

The layour I'm building now has 3/4" plywood for the "table" and the elevated track, and it will be averlaid with 1" blue foam, on top of which I'll put cork roadbed. I'm hoping that betwen the foam and the enhanced stiffness of the 3/4" plywood I should have a nice quiet layout.

Mark in Utah

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Thisonejamie

I am only 14 and have no clue what to use i am very tight on money and i just want it to look good.


thanks.

I like cork. It's cheap, and I can just staple it down with an Arrow stapler. I fastened my track with small nails, and voila! it was done. Ballasting it did not make it louder, and everything has held up well. I have not had a chance to try any of the other methods, but will someday. Only in a small experimental area, though. If you are still trying to decide what to do then, I'll let you know. (don't wait around for me, though! could be 5 years!)[:I] Good luck on the construction. Just take it slow and easy, and it should go okay. Cork, when proprly ballasted, looks good.[8D][tup]

[Pruitt]

For absorbing sound, the best way I know of is a sub-subroadbed. Glue homasote between the risers underneath the plywood (or whatever) subroadbed - it supposedly deadens the soundboard behavior of the subroadbed.

I haven't actually tried that - I read it in an old Tuxedo Junction article in an MR out of the fifties. As far as I know,l that's the last time anyone really did anything on the subject of sound properties of track and roadbed.

[jrbernier]

My layout has Homabed and it was built in 1987-88 - No problems at all! This stuff is more expensive, bit it is a full 1/4" high. Cork is 3/16" high and I use the cork for sidings. I lay the Homabed out about 12" into the siding and then change over to cork. I use a 'sureform' tool to sand down the Homabed so that it is feathered into the cork. This makes a very smooth transition......

Jim Bernier

Jim Bernier

[Adelie]

Looking good is more a function of ballasting and the surrounding scenery (assuming the roadbed was laid well). I'm using both cork (staging area) and Woodland Scenics foam on the Bunter Ridge. I think I like the foam better, largely because it comes in 24' rolls. Cork is slightly cheaper. Foam is quieter. If you use cork, sand the top of it to smooth it out (one of those little electric sanders makes short work of that).

I have also used Tru Scale wood roadbed in the past, and it was fine. I think it is hard to come by these days, though, and more expensive.

I've never used AMI instant roadbed. Other than being careful around the switch points, I suspect it is pretty easy other than you'd better put it where you want it because you probably aren't going to get a second chance (very sticky stuff).

I've never used homasote, either.

[Anonymous]

I am only 14 and have no clue what to use i am very tight on money and i just want it to look good.


thanks.

[tsasala]

From reading this thread, it sounds like most of the options have issues. How does homabed hold up over time? What about the AMI instant roadbed?

[AntonioFP45]

Hmmmm.........

Cork? Or the newer Black Foam?

Seems like both have pros and cons. Basically I'd like to go with a material that won't sink after a year and still absorb sound reasonably. I'm going to be building a layout soon, and still haven't decided which to use.

To me, the sound of model trains on top of bare plywood is rather annoying, so I've opted not going for wooden roadbed, even though I can virtually acquire, cut, and shape the wood for free.

Guys, didn't MRR do a "Products Review" on the Woodland Scenics foam a few years back? Anyone have that info and was the review reasonably accurate?

Thanks! [;)]