Money is going to be a problem, I think. DC is simple and you have it in hand. It is an excellent way to learn about laying tracks, and you can play with your trains while you read up on DCC and on making a more complete track system where your trains could seemingly do work as they do on the real railroads.
You have already spent some money that will provide fun. If you are dead set on entering the DCC market, you will at the very least need to get a decoder and a speaker installed in your engine (about $150 unless you can install it yourself?), but you also need the DCC operating control system. A basic one is about $140, give or take, depending on how you shop around.
Note that sound decoders these days can be used on DC track. It is just that you won't be able to make the engine do all the things that a DCC system would make your engine do via the decoder.
As for tracks, the tracks, the rails, don't care whether you are putting DCC or DC current through them. Only your engine will care.
Welcome to the forum!
Welcome to the hobby, Jeremy. The only thing I think you're going to find is that you have entered a hobby with no absolute truths and no best ways. Generally, though, more $$ equals more quality.
Specifically, yes, it is possible to convert your existing stuff to DCC, but trying to salvage the inexpensive locos and making good sound-equipped DCC runners out of them is going to take a lot of cash and effort. For reference, though, Bachmann has two lines, basic (which is probably what you have) and Spectrum. There are significant differences in price and quality between the two. Personally, I find the Spectrum stuff to be a good compromise between cost and quality. Others will differ with me on that score.
You can find some pretty good bargains if you hunt around, but be wary of buying things just because you found a great price. Make sure it's something that fills a "need" or "want" on your layout before you buy. I inherited a lot of old stuff, and ended up selling most of it because there was no consistency in road names, architectural styles, quality, etc.
DCC is pretty easy these days. If your minimum standard is sound, then I'd say leap right in. Unfortunately, this will put your loco cost in the $200+ range for the most part. That's your tradeoff. You can get / create setups that mimic sound-equipped locos for less, but if you really want your locos to make appropriate noises, you're pretty much on DCC.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I would say you should probably get your feet wet a little bit and be sure this is really a hobyb you want to be in. Hopefully the answer to that will be yes, the more the merrier! However, don't judge the whole thing by the quality (or lack thereof) of the track, loco, cars, and power pack that probably came with that Life-Like set. Probably as many peopel have been turned off to this hobby by buying a train set as have stuck with it, after they get frustrated with poor running, the track not staying together, or constant derailments. Thankfully it should be a little better today now that most of the train sets have knuckle couplers and not those derailment-inducing X2f type. You've probably made a start - if that Bachmann loco is a Spectrum model you've already advanced beyond 'train set quality'. Bachmann and Life Like make three lines. They both have basic cheap train set stuff, and then with Bachmann you have Plus which is a bit better, and Spectrum which is way better. With Life Like you have Proto 1000 and Proto 2000, both far better than train set stuff. Proto 2000 usually has finer detailing than Proto 1000 but both have better motors and drives than the cheap stuff.
As for DCC, you can just hook it up to what you have and go, but you'll need to put decoders in the locos. The train set Life Like can be done but it might not be very easy, or worth the money. If the Bachmann is a Spectrum, it should be fairly easy to add a DCC decoder. There's no reason why you couldn't get started on a larger layout using DC and then later convert to DCC. If you search around here there have ben many threads on this topic. You can start with DC, but with an eye towards future DCC conversion, and it ends up being very simple. If you stick with DC for now though, I would recommend a better power pack than the one that came with the Life Like set. A better power pack will give you better control over your trains so you can couple up smoothly, and will have the extra power to run two or more locos at once, or power a sound-equipped loco.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
My only advice is since you don't already have a bunch of DC stuff to convert, don't waste anymore $$$ on DC and jump right into DCC. I'd probably switch to something other than the LifeLike track too. The Bachmann Spectrum series of locos is much higher quality than what you bought from Hob Lob, so don't overlook them when shopping.
Welcome aboard, Jeremy.
Since your interest is PRR, and since your grandfather worked from 1922 to 1965, all you have to do is narrow that down to a specific era and location and target your purchases accordingly. In 1922, and for twenty years thereafter, PRR was all home-designed steam. Limited electrification and the GG-1 came in about 1932, give or take. The J came during WWII, followed by the duplex era and rapid dieselization. For the last decade of his career your ancestor probably never rode behind anything but diesels. Bowser is selling off their old Penn Line-based PRR steam kits, so get them while they last if you want to go that route. OTOH, PRR owned at least one example of every first generation diesel ever built, and model diesels are usually more reliable than steamers.
I agree that what you have now is a 'learner' set. For serious trackwork, flex track is preferred to sectional but is a little tricky to lay. Experiment with it on a flat, solid tabletop before diving into a permanent installation. If you don't glue it down, it can be taken up and re-used.
Since you have already decided on DCC, my recommendation is that you do your wiring with that in mind, then save up and buy a higher-end system when you buy your first DCC/sound equipped loco. You won't really need it before then, Even a monster layout can be operated temporarily on analog DC from a LL power pack if you arrange to run only one train at a time. (Don't ask how I know this!) Basic wiring is the same for both simple DC and DCC - it only gets complicated when you try to run two or more locomotives. DCC keeps the complication in black boxes (controller and decoders) while analog DC puts the complication on the control panel(s) for the op to play with.
You will have to do some soldering, wires to track, wires to each other and possibly wires to decoders and internal locomotive components. If you don't know how, practice is the key.
There are any number of threads on the forum about benchwork, trackwork, wiring, DCC (a whole forum full) and soldering tools and techniques. Typing those keywords into the Search Community box to the right under My Profile will provide lots of light reading and some nuggets of useful information.
This is a time when you should make haste slowly. You already have the dream. Put time and thought into planning before you pick up saw, tin snips and power drill/screwdriver and attack building with great gusto. Your wallet will appreciate your efforts. (Tin snips? Check steel stud benchwork in that search function.)
Once again Model Railroading is fun!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
jayres1973Can you buy any DCC controller and plug it into a LL track set or do I need to buy a different track, etc?
The only thing I do know is that I'm not going to waste any more money on another Bachmann loco, it priced at $100 at Hobby lobby and they had it on clearance sale for $40. Should I jump into DCC or ????
First is that Bachmann makes several lines of equipment. It sounds like you got the bottom plain jane Bachmann. The good stuff is the Bachmann Spectrum series. There are many fine Spectrum locomotives that come with sound and DCC.
Second - should you jump to DCC? That is a harder question. I think in today's market if you truly want sound then just jump to DCC. I say this having had DC sound for myself since 1982. While there is some really good DC sound equipment out there, it is not nearly as user friendly as the DCC sound. There are other factors to consider, but I am hanging my advice on this one point because it is what you mentioned.
Welcome jeremy...most all new DCC loco's have dual decoder's which means you can run them on either DCC or DC (analog). Just ask at your dealer if they are dual. Read the directions that come with the loco, they are not all the same. Some you may have to change a plug or like Atlas remove a smoke stack to access the switch. To use sound with DC you need a better quality power pack (transformer) than a train set version. I used an MRC Tech 4 260 until I switched to DCC. I have some of the Bachmann cheap DCC diesel loco's and they are not bad runners for the price. They also run both, dual control. The problem is when you advance to a better DCC system you can't adjust cv's, they (Bachmann) are a very simple basic cheap decoder. I've used them for 4 years and did manage to fry one out of about 8 of the cheap Bachmann. The Spectrum loc's are far better though. My sound loco's cost me $200.00 to $300.00 factory installed sound decoders. You are smart to start out with DCC. lurk around, get to understand the lingo, ask questions, visit a local train club and see what they do and recommend. Above all else have fun!
You don't mention your price range, but here's a thought...
You can often find an excellent diesel locomotive, like a GP9 or GP7 or RS11 or RS3, that PRR ran, with sound and DCC installed already for about $100 less than a similarly equipped steam engine.
OR.... look here for some good steam engines with sound http://factorydirecttrains.com/yearendbluelineclearance.aspx
If you are interested in Diesels, they have F7AB sets for $150. You can add a decoder at a later date for around $25. It should abe a "plug and play" type setup for the decoder. But you could unbox the engine and run it with your DC transformer.
I noticed that they have PRR Light Mikado 2-8-2 for $149 with sound, and DCC can be added here: http://factorydirecttrains.com/12-5175.aspx
jayres1973I'm interested in the BLI light mikado in the link sent, .... it says DC sound, DCC ready. I'm wanting everything "out of the box". It may cost me $300. or more. But, at starting out, I really don't want to chance screwing up a decoder or anything else. I'll pay a fair price for what I want, ..... but just the words "DCC ready" ..... makes me feel like my grandmother shopping for a computer. I'm learning a little, ... but does DC/ DCC ready mean that it'll run on dc but I'd have to buy a decoder chip to make it run with all the bells and whistles on DCC?
but does DC/ DCC ready mean that it'll run on dc but I'd have to buy a decoder chip to make it run with all the bells and whistles on DCC?
That's exactly what it means. However DCC ready is a broad statement. Some it means it is already wired with either an 8 or 9 pin plug, but will run as is with DC. You purchase and install the DCC decoder. Others mean the motor is simply isolated from the chassis, and you wire it and install the harness and decoder, but will run on DC without doing anything. On steam loco's it can be a challenge in just getting the shell off. My opinion you can't go wrong with a Bachmann steam loco with sound already installed. If something should go south they are excellent with their fix or replace warranty. I never had a problem with Bachmann. I also own BLI steam loco's and never had a problem with them either. I own several diesel engines, Bachmann, Atlas, Athearn, Proto, Stewart and had no problems except for one, like I said an inexpensive $35.00 DCC Bachmann.
jayres1973... but does DC/ DCC ready mean that it'll run on dc but I'd have to buy a decoder chip to make it run with all the bells and whistles on DCC?...
Yes. It will run on DC and needs a decoder to become DCC. You will have to buy and install the decoder yourself, find a friend who can do it, or pay someone to install it for you.
I used to play with 3 rail Lionel when a child, and I Have old DC N scale stuff from teen years that I used to get back into the hobby. But, I always always wanted HO. SO I built a small HO layout and decided to go DCC. My budget is also tight. Like you I got a HO DC train set to play with and quickly decided I wanted DCC from what I'd read about it.
Like you, I need everything "DCC-onboard-ready-to-run-out-of-the-box". I am very electronically challenged and can fry an alarm clock if I'm not carefull! "DCC Ready" means you need to install the decoder. I bought one Athearn loco that was "DCC Ready" with the "Plug and play" 8 pin decoder plug. I was supposed to only unplug the DC 8 pin "jumper plug" and plug in the 8 pin DCC Decoder recommended. I have yet to get the DC jumper unpluged {read as "busted loose from without breaking the loco"}. I have some Bachmann DCC OnBoard {no sound} locos that are fairly inexpensive. And I use the {inexpensive and basic} Bachmann EZ Command DCC controller to get into DCC.
I may have a simple small layout but I Love DCC and pleased I made that choice!. Less wiring and blocking. In fact my small layout has only two wires to it and I can run 2-3 locos anyway I want on two interconnected oval and spurs.
A few good places to hunt and poke around for trains online at reasonable prices are wholesaletrains.com and modeltrainstuff.com.
to the hobby and tons-o-fun!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Beware, DCC "ready" is a very relative term in our hobby. The most simple DCC ready locos will have a plug that you just connect the correct decoder to. I believe that BLI Mikado is like that as well as many of the newer higher end locos. Not really something to fear.
Other DCC ready locos can require some amount of wiring and modification. Not all DCC equipped locos are going to have a decoder that you'll be happy with. (Athearn/MRC for example) Buying a loco with a plug and learning to install a decoder yourself opens the possibilities of what you can purchase and be happy with.
This is where knowing terms really helps, but knowing labels and brands makes a huge difference as well. Also, knowing that mark offers the most bang for the buck.
For example, the light Mikado from BlueLine...if that is what we were discussing...is a strictly DC engine, except that it already has a decoder installed. It is just that the type of decoder is only able to control sounds and the lights...no motor control. Your motor will respond to dialed-in voltage on your controller just as it would on any DC layout. If you want to convert a BlueLine engine to DCC, you would need to either rip out what is there and install a full sound/motor decoder, or do what Broadway Limited hoped buyers would do...simply wire in an inexpensive second decoder, but this one would run the electric motor. This system makes the BlueLine very attractive because a motive decoder only adds maybe $15 to the cost of the engine. A Paragon with QSI decoder, by comparison, would cost another $60-80...quite a difference.
DC is great for many people still. We all define our fun. You may find it quite sufficient for some time. But as others have said, make up your mind. Spending more money in the wrong direction now means some challenges in recovering the value later.
That said, almost no one in the hobby is "cast in concrete". You can change anything...scales, DC to DCC, back again,...you name it. I do think exploration, with learning and knowledge, and the right attitude, are important, and it is most heartening to see you approach your entry to the hobby as you are doing. I expect that it will save you a lot of grief and money over time, and perhaps a chunk right up front.
jayres1973I just bought my first train set last week. I wanted something inexpensive and found a Walther's LL set for $70. on sale. I also bought a Bachmann dc steam loco cheap for $40. Now for some questions: I've been looking at a lot of different sites online and checking out layouts on youtube, SO, I know I want sound. I also already have an idea for my first layout being with a PRR steam freight set, because my great grandfather was a PRR conductor from 1922 to 1965.
I think you're in luck if it's the PRR you want to model. There are a number of excellent PRR train products available right now. Broadway Limited, Bachmann, and Walthers Proto are a few. Just remember, sound can get expensive.
Many people are telling me to stick with DC for awhile, but I don't want to put money into a loco without sound, etc. It seems like I'd just have to change everything over, sooner or later. Can you buy any DCC controller and plug it into a LL track set or do I need to buy a different track, etc?
Life-Like Power-Loc track, as well as all other 2-rail track, works with DCC. I wouldn't recommend sticking with the Power-Loc track, though. It's cheaply made, noisy, it looks unrealistic, and it's completely incompatible with all other HO track.
You may want to start with DC, and then advance to DCC. Most sound equipped locomotives now work with DC, but you can only get basic sound effects. When you really feel like you want DCC, there are a number of good systems available, but which one is best is everyone's own opinion. I haven't used it myself, but from what I've seen, DCC wiring as hardly more complicated than DC.
The only thing I do know is that I'm not going to waste any more money on another Bachmann loco, it priced at $100 at Hobby lobby and they had it on clearance sale for $40. Should I jump into DCC or ???? Just a newbie looking for advise from others whose been down this road already. Thank you, Jeremy
I don't think you should dismiss Bachmann yet (although many will say you should). They make a good product, but their quality control is known be not very good. When you get a good one from them, it's excellent. When you get a bad one, they'll replace it. It's easy to find much lower than retail prices on their products.
You can get DCC equipped locomotives that will also work on DC, so when you're ready to make the change, your stuff is already ready for it.
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Selector-I thought the Blue Lines came with a motor decoder 9 pin plug?? I don't think there's any wiring involved. (just a plug in)You CAN order them from FDT with a motor decoder already installed for an additional fee.http://factorydirecttrains.com/12-5173.aspxStill not a bad price.
I suggested the BLI light Mike because it comes DCC ready plus sound for $149. Not bad at all.
That said, the BLI and Spectrum engines have plugs in the tenders that you plug in a DCC decoder. They cost $20-30. Sometimes you have to buy a converter plug, but a good seller can help you with that. I have someone I have bought from in the past who would talk with me on the phone for a half hour about DCC installations, and has a thorough working knowledge of the items available. He can recommend the proper plugs for specific engines, and the proper speakers for specific decoders, etc.... If you are interested, contact me via PM or email.
One thing about sound in DC is that the sound decoder eats up a lot of power. Unless you have a DC controller that goes beyond 12 volts, you're going to find a sound equipped engine will go very slowly in DC even at full throttle. In DCC where there's a constant 14V AC on the track, it isn't an issue. If you want sound I would definetely go DCC. A Digitrax Zephyr would be a good start (although MRC makes a good starter set-up too, check Micro-Mark for good prices on MRC stuff.)
I would start with a good sound-equipped / DCC engine, get used to running it, setting CV's etc. before getting into installation. To borrow a guitar analogy, if you're just starting out in electric guitar, you want to get a decent guitar and (tube!) amp and learn to play and find out what kinda tone you like etc. first. You don't want to get a first guitar and immediately start changing pickups and such!!
Spectrum and BLI make good reliable steam engines with sound, the Spectrum ones in the Micro-Mark catalogue are often well below $200. Better to get one good engine that you'll be using the rest of your life than a couple of cheap ones that will be discarded down the road.
p.s. There are a lot of good railroad books and video/DVD's out there on the Pennsylvania, wouldn't hurt to do some research before getting to far to find out what equipment was used in the area you're interested in.
What is your budget like?
You could technically start with a DC/DCC engine and a cheap powerpack, then purchase a DCC system later.
I have to say, I use the MRC Prodigy system, and absolutely love it. The controls are very well laid out, and there are very few button combinations need to do things, as is common on the Digitrax systems.
To help you further understand dcc, Tony's train exchange has a great dcc primer. I would suggest you take a look at it. It will help you understand some of the fundamentals of dcc.
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm
BLI offers two T1's, but only one is a PRR model. I don't know that it would be a DCC engine....I thought the PRR T1 Duplex (4-4-4-4) were all sold out, but maybe he has one. Otherwise, it must be the BlueLine model, and a decoder can be added to it.
Loathar, it is quite likely that a decoder can be added easily to the BlueLine engines...I thought so, and that it was the way thay were designed...not sure since I don't own any. Also, though, some suitable and inexpensive decoders may not have the right connector, so a hardwire would be needed anyway. Some folks won't use connectors just 'cuz and will want to hard-wire a decoder.
-Crandell