Cost of MR Hobby too Expensive !?!?

[citylimits]

andrechapelon

I was trying to say that price comparisons between what was paid for a packet of Cal-Scale detail parts in 1960 (or any other applicable item of model railway interest) bares little or no relevance to the price paid today for the same item or perhaps if you prefer; a locomotive. Other than perhaps an exercise driven by a person interest to find this out, a direct comparison is not useful at all in pondering a reasonable outcome to the OP's original proposition.

 

Hogwash. The only question that needs answering is whether or not the cost of the hobby RELATIVE to the general cost of living in the past is higher, lower or unchanged. Some things are more expensive and some less. Overall, hobby items are no more expensive than they historically have been. HOWEVER, there is so much more available now than before that we're all like kids in a candy store with a buck to spend on candy. Or, to make the analogy clear, it's as if the candy store back then was a hole in the wall shop, and we're in the midst of a Wal-Mart which sells nothing but candy and we only have the same amount of money to spend on an inflation adjusted basis.

 

You may have noticed in my message that I suggested that the over simplification of adjusted for inflation prices and CPI stats is that we are not, in the speak of busy business executives, operating on a level playing field. There are numerous other factors in existence that affect price comparisons and the perception of what is highly priced and what is not. I gave a few examples of these earlier and they are  germane to this discussion.

 

Why does everyone try to complicate things that are really pretty straight-forward? It's not all that hard to understand. I paid $700 for a plane ticket to New Zealand in 1969. That's $4027 in today's dollars. If I book by Friday, I can get a flight to Auckland on Qantas for $299 each way. By the time you add in all the taxes, that ticket (round trip) will cost me $736 in TODAY's dollars. That $736 equates to $128 in 1969 dollars. That is DIRT CHEAP in comparison. The fact that someone "perceives" that today's $736 is expensive and that Qantas is gouging the poor passenger is irrelevant. You're getting essentially the same service at a $578 discount (an 82% saving when expressed in 1969 dollars). And that's including the taxes and fees that didn't exist 40 years ago.  The fact that someone can't afford to fly to New Zealand now or thinks the ticket price is too high has nothing to do with the relative cost of flying now vs. the cost of flying 40 years ago. It's cheaper now.

 

Andre

 

 

 

 

Hogwash you say! 

 

Well, I don't understand why you can't see that price comparisons - adjusted for inflation, bare no relevance to the question posed by the OP, that being, is this hobby too expensive. I say that the question is subjective and depends on whether you can afford to pay the asking price of what is currently available now or if value can be seen in the prices being asked. So, too expensive for who?

If I am faced with paying real-time prices and for what ever reason I don't have the money to do so, then the items that interest me are too expensive for me to buy even if the result of your inflation adjusted calculations makes them less expensive than they were in 1969 or when ever.

I also don't understand why you would unnecessarily complicate this question by introducing a fat red herring into the argument. I have no problem at all with the figures you produce as a statement of fact, but are they relevant within the context of the Original Post.

 

I have no trouble understanding the point you are making, it's not at all difficult to follow a simple argument regardless of how many times it's repeated. What is difficult to understand is your insistence that your argument does in anyway address the question posed by the OP.

You are arguing along a line as if the question asked by the OP was, is the cost of our hobby more expensive than it was for modelers in the past. Is that what you see as being asked by the OP - because it's not.

 

I don't give a flying fig if the cost of your airfare to New Zealand paid by you in 1969 is relatively more expensive then than the airfare paid today to cover the same journey. Conditions existing in the airline industry at that time were vastly different than they are today - in 1969 it was still considered by many to be a luxury to travel by air. Now international air travel is routine and with specials offered by many airlines - $1.00 ( special conditions apply, needless to say) to fly between Auckland and Christchurch by Virgin Blue, air travel has never been cheaper. Once again though, your reasoning is flawed if you believe that there is within the context of the OP's original proposition a need for this comparison. That was then and this is now. I also can't understand why you can not see that there are many different factors that have a baring on price, enough so that comparing prices from widely different generations are pointless and are not helpful in answering what the OP wanted to discuss. Direct comparisons of this type are of limited interest if they are not germane to the subject of the original posting.

 

I shouldn't have to point out the obvious to you, but there is nowhere stated or implied in any thing I have written in this post that I believe we are the victims of price gouging by QANTAS or anybody else in the business community servicing model railroaders - where did you get that from, it's a little creative, I do believe. 

 

Anyway, I certainly don't want to be the cause of this post being locked or removed by the moderators. So I will not engage with you any further on this topic.

 

We will have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid.

 

Bruce

[blownout cylinder]

andrechapelon

 

Why does everyone try to complicate things that are really pretty straight-forward? It's not all that hard to understand. I paid $700 for a plane ticket to New Zealand in 1969. That's $4027 in today's dollars. If I book by Friday, I can get a flight to Auckland on Qantas for $299 each way. By the time you add in all the taxes, that ticket (round trip) will cost me $736 in TODAY's dollars. That $736 equates to $128 in 1969 dollars. That is DIRT CHEAP in comparison. The fact that someone "perceives" that today's $736 is expensive and that Qantas is gouging the poor passenger is irrelevant. You're getting essentially the same service at a $578 discount (an 82% saving when expressed in 1969 dollars). And that's including the taxes and fees that didn't exist 40 years ago.  The fact that someone can't afford to fly to New Zealand now or thinks the ticket price is too high has nothing to do with the relative cost of flying now vs. the cost of flying 40 years ago. It's cheaper now.

 

I'm thinking that there is a point in this in that there is a perception out there that this hobby is expensive. Where this perception came from is irrelevant. It is how do we address this perception. We did not use inflation calculations until the 90's in most cases--which is ironic considering that during the 80's we saw inflation up here in the upper 'teens/lower twenties percentile range and seen interest rates pushing 20% or more. With money getting tighter in a lot of homes --and with said homes Eloc's going underwater as some of the Case/Schiller studies are saying--and credit lines going out the window, people are just starting to see what happened for the last number of years. It will be time to educate people on how to do hobbies by not mangling what is left of their credit/cash accounts.

And yes,City Limits --my fleamarket finds may be fortuitous--but that becomes part of one's repertoir of hunting/gathering skills. I've only done this type of thing for a few decades---after all---

[blownout cylinder]

citylimits

I have no clue who or what this POD is you mention in your messages - can you give me a clue!

Check PM's

[andrechapelon]

I was trying to say that price comparisons between what was paid for a packet of Cal-Scale detail parts in 1960 (or any other applicable item of model railway interest) bares little or no relevance to the price paid today for the same item or perhaps if you prefer; a locomotive. Other than perhaps an exercise driven by a person interest to find this out, a direct comparison is not useful at all in pondering a reasonable outcome to the OP's original proposition.

 

Hogwash. The only question that needs answering is whether or not the cost of the hobby RELATIVE to the general cost of living in the past is higher, lower or unchanged. Some things are more expensive and some less. Overall, hobby items are no more expensive than they historically have been. HOWEVER, there is so much more available now than before that we're all like kids in a candy store with a buck to spend on candy. Or, to make the analogy clear, it's as if the candy store back then was a hole in the wall shop, and we're in the midst of a Wal-Mart which sells nothing but candy and we only have the same amount of money to spend on an inflation adjusted basis.

 

You may have noticed in my message that I suggested that the over simplification of adjusted for inflation prices and CPI stats is that we are not, in the speak of busy business executives, operating on a level playing field. There are numerous other factors in existence that affect price comparisons and the perception of what is highly priced and what is not. I gave a few examples of these earlier and they are  germane to this discussion.

 

Why does everyone try to complicate things that are really pretty straight-forward? It's not all that hard to understand. I paid $700 for a plane ticket to New Zealand in 1969. That's $4027 in today's dollars. If I book by Friday, I can get a flight to Auckland on Qantas for $299 each way. By the time you add in all the taxes, that ticket (round trip) will cost me $736 in TODAY's dollars. That $736 equates to $128 in 1969 dollars. That is DIRT CHEAP in comparison. The fact that someone "perceives" that today's $736 is expensive and that Qantas is gouging the poor passenger is irrelevant. You're getting essentially the same service at a $578 discount (an 82% saving when expressed in 1969 dollars). And that's including the taxes and fees that didn't exist 40 years ago.  The fact that someone can't afford to fly to New Zealand now or thinks the ticket price is too high has nothing to do with the relative cost of flying now vs. the cost of flying 40 years ago. It's cheaper now.

 

Andre

 

 

 

 

[citylimits]

blownout cylinder

Again--if one wants to get good bang for the buck--look into different venues--as I blitherred about in an earlier post here I went to a fleamarket of all things-a place for second hand antiquey things--and found a whole bunch --more like 14 locos,9 with DCC/sound--for under $375cdn! So I say that one can do this stuff without bashing in their credit card or wallet---try to imagine the possibilities---unless you want to help certain POD's along---

I think that your canny purchase at a fleamarket is fortuitous and shows how taking advantage of opportunities such as this can save money. This example has been good for you, but at $375.00 for 14 locomotives - about $26 a pop, it would be a purchase that may seldom be repeated. So well done, mate!

By comparison. no matter how good the bargain is, it would be an insurmountable task for me to come up with $375.00 to laydown for a purchase that was not planned and budgeted for in advance. So while your extraordinary good fortune is to be applauded and does to some extent show that a fully equipt locomotive model can be had at a very reasonable price reducing the cost of the hobby for you at that time it is not always a repeatable experience.

On the other hand, and from my personal point of view, buying 14 locomotives of any other type than those that were operated by the road I am modeling, would at any price be a wasted purchase - that is, unless I was to move them on at a profit thus reducing my modeling costs overall. Even then, I would still have to find the puchase price to be part of such a deal. Once again it all comes down to what financia recourses you have as to whether you can take advantage of such good deals.

I have no clue who or what this POD is you mention in your messages - can you give me a clue!

Bruce

[blownout cylinder]

TMarsh

Autobus Prime

I feel that nobody is going to read after my first paragraph.

I did too.

I did three----so there----

[TMarsh]

Autobus Prime

I feel that nobody is going to read after my first paragraph.

I did too.

[blownout cylinder]

Autobus Prime

I feel that such of this equipment that remains, like Bowser, is ignored not because it lacks potential, but because it isn't being promoted - it's incredible how many articles on Bowser-modification you see in magazines up until the mid-90s, to get prototypes that still aren't being made and never will be, except in brass.

I feel that nobody is going to read after my first paragraph.

(Whatever happened to Bowser RTR, anyway?)

 

The usual happened--we'll push what sells and if that means the $$$RTR then fine. Bowser's somehow fell out of favour---(?!?!)

[Autobus Prime]

CTValleyRR

So how about we sum up 5 pages of posts in a few short lines:

1) The hobby doesn't have to be expensive.  If you use the "home" or "alternative" methods rather than going out for a retail hobby product.  I mean, you can buy pre-made benchwork for $50 per section, or you can make it yourself for about $10 for parts plus your own sweat (mental and physical).

2) While there is some initial outlay to get enough track and locos to get some kind of layout up and running, most of the expenditure is spread out over time, pretty much as long as the modeller can stand.  Most of us can budget $10 (or whatever) out of each paycheck to set aside for hobby stuff.

3) I've seen a lot of people throwing numbers around, but few references to the Consumer Price Index, which is the official measure of the change in prices in our country. ...something that cost $100 in Jan 1970 should cost $459 today... and I just don't see that kind of price increase.

CTV:

I think it's still kicking...at least, I think I can add a few things.

Re. creative solutions: I am 100% in agreement that these exist, because I collect them and use every one I can find. I do feel there is a great and immediate need for more promotion of these methods, most of which are practically lost down the 20-year memory hole, and languish somewhere in a back-issue on some dusty shelf.  The easy retort is, "So, go do it".  I will - as soon as I prove out my methods enough to do so.  But somebody must be ready to publish!

Re. inflation: I think 1970 is a fairly poor choice for comparison.  Remember, inflation did a huge and abnormal KERFLUMP in the 70s.  I believe that is the proper economic term.  It was relatively steady before and afterward. This tends to skew figures; we assume a steady rise, which there wasn't.

After much back-issue browsing and rumination, I have come to the conclusion that there was a time, in the early 90s, when the popular, reasonably good "hobby" grade merchandise had become quite affordable.

Looking in the 1994 RMC I have in front of me, I see, for instance, an Athearn F7 for ~$19 and a Bowser K4 for $75 kit and $125 RTR, at Trainland.  Using the AIER calculator, these equal a $28 F7, a $110 kit K4, and a $208 RTR K4. Oddly enough, Bowser isn't too far off this, but today's equivalent blue-box F7 is something like $40.  It leads me to wonder - what happened?  You can see that, using the cost of living as a benchmark, "inflation" can't be the answer.

I feel that this "period of affordability", in which the most popular equipment was a surprisingly good value for the low price asked, is at the root of most dissatisfaction with prices today.

I feel that such of this equipment that remains, like Bowser, is ignored not because it lacks potential, but because it isn't being promoted - it's incredible how many articles on Bowser-modification you see in magazines up until the mid-90s, to get prototypes that still aren't being made and never will be, except in brass.

I feel that nobody is going to read after my first paragraph.

(Whatever happened to Bowser RTR, anyway?)

 

[TMarsh]

Is this hobby more or less expensive than ever? Just depends on how you look at it. A gallon of gas is supposedly cheaper now than in remembrance however I don't see it any easier to purchase it. All of the price comparisons don't amount to doodley squat because it's up to the individuals pocket book as to what is expensive and what isn't. It's an age old, non-ending non-answerable question. One thing is constant. It will be more expensive to restore an old Jaguar or a 5 bedroom 3 bath mansion, than a Camaro or a 2 bedroom 1 bath bungalow. And then each will vary within a persons geographic location. If you are building a basement size layout it's going to be more costly than a 4X8. Most people I know of do not go out and buy their entire fleet, all the scenery and all the structures at once. But then again, judging by her trips to the craft store, I don't think my wife bought all the yarn or needle thingy's she was ever going to use. She has complained however about the prices as to the way they used to be so it's not just MRR that has gotten more costly. Kits as a rule are cheaper than RTR's. Scratchbuilding supplies are cheaper than structure kits and we don't even need to go into scenery. There are countless ways to "save" money. You just have to decide what you want to spend your money on and what you want to save on. And for some of us, what we have to buy and what we can save some money on. I don't think it is a cheap hobby, nor do I think it ever will be (or ever has been). One thing you must keep in mind when calling this hobby expensive, and that is...compared to what? Model cars? Boats? Fishing? You must take into consideration that MRR is not just buying a $15.00 car kit and painting it with some paint and using supplies you have bought before. You are building many, many, many things to achieve what is called one thing. When put in proportion it is not overly expensive. Now if you will excuse me, I must leave and take out a second mortgage on my house. I plan on doing some more things to the layout.

[blownout cylinder]

citylimits

Some models today are way too expensive for me to buy and so is the cost of equipping my modest fleet of locomotives for DCC and sound. That is a fact! However some guys with a heap of change or limitless credit can go out and equip a much larger roster than mine in one purchase - that is probably factual as well. I interpret too expensive, in the OP's question to be relative to days hobby experience and in direct proportion to the amount of money I can access to buy what I want/need. Other than amassing a large collection of belly button lint which is cost neutral, most hobbies today are expensive - but too expensive - only if today's prices make this hobby inaccessible by acting as a barrier to people wanting to enter the hobby or making existing hobbyists even more selective than they are today.

 

Again--if one wants to get good bang for the buck--look into different venues--as I blitherred about in an earlier post here I went to a fleamarket of all things-a place for second hand antiquey things--and found a whole bunch --more like 14 locos,9 with DCC/sound--for under $375cdn! So I say that one can do this stuff without bashing in their credit card or wallet---try to imagine the possibilities---unless you want to help certain POD's along---

[OntarioTodd]

 Today was a good Model Railroad bargain day for me. Answering a Kijiji ad I picked up 12 snap switches (two still new in package), a box full of nickel silver track (including 3 still sealed Atlas packages of track), a model of a freight station, a nice 40 foot CN boxcar with Kadees, a large box of trees, a curved tunnel that is very well built and will work nicely on my layout for $80. I then picked three milk crates full of mint MR magazines going back to 1970 for free. All this will keep me busy for quite a while!

Todd 

[citylimits]

andrechapelon

As the man once said, there are  lies, *** lies and statistics - or something like that. Statistics work on paper but they are cold detail - they stand alone and give no credence whatsoever to the many other factors that must be considered in addressing the OP's original proposition. He asked about the "hobby" not just examples of the relative costs of a locomotive in the 1960's and the cost of the same or similar model today.

 

Since a locomotive is probably the single most expensive item a model railroader would purchase, it's a logical place to start. The OP's original example was Shinohara turnouts.  I could go through every 35-50 year old MR I have and run a [censored]load of prices through an inflation calculator (e.g. Cal-Scale wanted $.85 for a pair of #260 number boards in 1962, they're listed at $4.40 at Bowser's site and the inflation adjusted 1962 price equals $5.94) but it wouldn't matter one whit to to anyone who starts out fully convinced he's getting ripped off. La Belle's 1905 coach kit (at $5.95) cost the current equivalent of $41.60 in 1962 and the identical item today is actually priced at $32.75. My source is the August, 1962 MR.

 

 

Andre

 

 

 

Andre, I think that you may have missed the point that I was trying to make in my long winded dissertation.

OK, so I used the word locomotive in my message, but I could have just have easily used any other example of a model or kit or detail part, my point was not confined to just locomotives - perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

 

I was trying to say that price comparisons between what was paid for a packet of Cal-Scale detail parts in 1960 (or any other applicable item of model railway interest) bares little or no relevance to the price paid today for the same item or perhaps if you prefer; a locomotive. Other than perhaps an exercise driven by a person interest to find this out, a direct comparison is not useful at all in pondering a reasonable outcome to the OP's original proposition.

 

You may have noticed in my message that I suggested that the over simplification of adjusted for inflation prices and CPI stats is that we are not, in the speak of busy business executives, operating on a level playing field. There are numerous other factors in existence that affect price comparisons and the perception of what is highly priced and what is not. I gave a few examples of these earlier and they are  germane to this discussion.

 

What we are addressing here is not if prices now are too high compared to prices paid in an early period of time, but instead the discussion is: "Cost of MR Hobby too Expensive !?!?." That infers the question being asked relates to today's prices and not those of several decades past. The answer must always be subjective relative to today's buying conditions, which were, as I've mentioned earlier, much different than they were in some decades past. That means the hobby as a whole and not just its commponant parts.

 

Some models today are way too expensive for me to buy and so is the cost of equipping my modest fleet of locomotives for DCC and sound. That is a fact! However some guys with a heap of change or limitless credit can go out and equip a much larger roster than mine in one purchase - that is probably factual as well. I interpret too expensive, in the OP's question to be relative to days hobby experience and in direct proportion to the amount of money I can access to buy what I want/need. Other than amassing a large collection of belly button lint which is cost neutral, most hobbies today are expensive - but too expensive - only if today's prices make this hobby inaccessible by acting as a barrier to people wanting to enter the hobby or making existing hobbyists even more selective than they are today.

 

Bruce

[blownout cylinder]

citylimits

Retail commerce is comprised now of selling features - added value -the more features a model offers the bigger the cost to the buyer.

The more you are prepared to do yourself then the less you will be paying some manufacture to do the same thing for you. Also in the modelers world of today there are far greater opportunities to be relieved of the contents of your pocket-book. An example being Sound and DCC - decoders, sound chips,  these are merely an enhancement rather than being nessesary for your layout to function and can add many hundreds of dollars to the hobby.

 

You can make something that is unique or road specific while the highly detailed big ticket item is more generic and possibly still needs to be fiddled about with. Brass models are mostly the exception and are expensive when bought new.

 

Model building does still offers opportunities to enjoy our hobby and without resorting to buying every darn thing ever made. Many modeling skills used in the past will probably become lost as there are becoming less opportunities to learn these skills these days.

You can spend a kings ransom on your hobby if you can afford to do that or you can organise your hobby in a different way that involves the modeler in more than just spending money.

 

On the other hand, it may well be that RTR can allow a future train modeler an easier access to the hobby than would otherwise be available if scratch building was the only game in town.

That is the other way of getting bigger bang for the buck--it is another way to get into the hobby. But then again--more companies are getting out of that part of the market--witness Bowser--and some of the effects thereof--

citylimits

On the other hand, it may well be that RTR can allow a future train modeler an easier access to the hobby than would otherwise be available if scratch building was the only game in town.

 

Is the cost of MR Hobby too expensive? Well yes, it can be, but it doesn't have to be that way. All these branded products available today offer quick gratification, but are not cheap. Like in many other situations, and after determining if you can afford the asking price, the cost of some item or other must represent good value for the money spent.

 

Cost of MR Hobby too Expensive !?!? Another answer is yes, it is too expensive if it precludes people from entering our hobby or even fellow modelers having to abandon the hobby for the same reason.

 

And confirming one of the canards of a certain so called POD(Prophet Of Doom).

[andrechapelon]

As the man once said, there are  lies, *** lies and statistics - or something like that. Statistics work on paper but they are cold detail - they stand alone and give no credence whatsoever to the many other factors that must be considered in addressing the OP's original proposition. He asked about the "hobby" not just examples of the relative costs of a locomotive in the 1960's and the cost of the same or similar model today.

 

Since a locomotive is probably the single most expensive item a model railroader would purchase, it's a logical place to start. The OP's original example was Shinohara turnouts.  I could go through every 35-50 year old MR I have and run a [censored]load of prices through an inflation calculator (e.g. Cal-Scale wanted $.85 for a pair of #260 number boards in 1962, they're listed at $4.40 at Bowser's site and the inflation adjusted 1962 price equals $5.94) but it wouldn't matter one whit to to anyone who starts out fully convinced he's getting ripped off. La Belle's 1905 coach kit (at $5.95) cost the current equivalent of $41.60 in 1962 and the identical item today is actually priced at $32.75. My source is the August, 1962 MR.

 

Someone could waste their time going through back issues of MR until the cows come home running price comparisons on every item imaginable and it isn't going to convince the complainers that they're not being robbed blind. Nothing will. No amount of research, fact checking, and inflation calculation is going to change the mind of someone who is convinced from the get-go that he's some kind of victim.

 

When I first started out looking into complaints of excessive prices, I didn't start out with the pre-conceived notion that the complainers were wrong, but out of simple curiosity. Nothing I've seen indicates to me that overall pricing is out of line with what used to be. PERIOD. Sure, there's individual variance, but overall, things are NOT overpriced.

 

 If Shinohara turnouts are "too expensive", hand lay your bloody turnouts as well as the rest of your track. If a fleet of diesel units is too expensive, downsize to a branchline where you don't "need" as many units. If you want to build a layout that requires 50-60 locomotives and hundreds of cars, it's going to cost you, even if you scratchbuild everything like Carl Appel did for his OO scale Norfolk & Ohio (see November, 1958 MR).

 

I'm a retiree. My income's pretty much fixed and I don't either feel I'm getting ripped off, nor am I about to leave the hobby because it's become "too expensive", the blatherings of our resident Prophet O'Doom notwithstanding. Grow the [censored] up, people. You're not going to get Tiffany diamonds at Faux GemsR'US cubic zirconia prices, ever.

 

Andre

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[citylimits]

As the man once said, there are  lies, *** lies and statistics - or something like that. Statistics work on paper but they are cold detail - they stand alone and give no credence whatsoever to the many other factors that must be considered in addressing the OP's original proposition. He asked about the "hobby" not just examples of the relative costs of a locomotive in the 1960's and the cost of the same or similar model today.

The world of decades past is a very different place to the decade we live in today.

Other factors - the way we do things, buying patterns, the cost of credit, time pressures, demands on your income, availability of raw materials and the desire to use these for modeling are all factors in determining the true cost of our hobby.

 

Retail commerce is comprised now of selling features - added value -the more features a model offers the bigger the cost to the buyer.

The more you are prepared to do yourself then the less you will be paying some manufacture to do the same thing for you. Also in the modelers world of today there are far greater opportunities to be relieved of the contents of your pocket-book. An example being Sound and DCC - decoders, sound chips,  these are merely an enhancement rather than being nessesary for your layout to function and can add many hundreds of dollars to the hobby.

 

You can make something that is unique or road specific while the highly detailed big ticket item is more generic and possibly still needs to be fiddled about with. Brass models are mostly the exception and are expensive when bought new.

 

Model building does still offers opportunities to enjoy our hobby and without resorting to buying every darn thing ever made. Many modeling skills used in the past will probably become lost as there are becoming less opportunities to learn these skills these days.

You can spend a kings ransom on your hobby if you can afford to do that or you can organise your hobby in a different way that involves the modeler in more than just spending money.

 

On the other hand, it may well be that RTR can allow a future train modeler an easier access to the hobby than would otherwise be available if scratch building was the only game in town.

 

Is the cost of MR Hobby too expensive? Well yes, it can be, but it doesn't have to be that way. All these branded products available today offer quick gratification, but are not cheap. Like in many other situations, and after determining if you can afford the asking price, the cost of some item or other must represent good value for the money spent.

 

Cost of MR Hobby too Expensive !?!? Another answer is yes, it is too expensive if it precludes people from entering our hobby or even fellow modelers having to abandon the hobby for the same reason.

 

Bruce

 

[IVRW]

The general consensus I think is the hobby is expensive but we like it and we are willing to pay for it.

[nw_fan]

 Here's my take on things and how they have affected me.
I really started with the hobby in the late 80's.
I am primarily interested in N&W steam.
Back then, I could get an N&W 4-8-4 or a 2-8-8-2 or a  2-6-6-4 for $800-2000 in brass.
And there wasn't much info available to me about re-gearing them, etc... if I needed to do that.  And research! Heck, that was barely even a speck on the radar at any price.  Books and pictures were few and far between.
 
Today, I can jump on the internet and find 1000+ pictures of any of the above engine classes.
I can order the engines online for $300 tops, usually less.  They come with sound, or I can add it.
I can run them together, without derailments and/or fancy wiring setups.
Remember buying wire by the 1000's of feet? I do. I wired a club layout with the help of 2 others that was in the shape of an "F" and 42 feet wide, bu 90 feet tall.  Can you imagine how much "fun" it was to wire blocks and tortoises and lighting?  It was expensive, too.
 
Back then, modeling the N&W railway in the 1950's was only a half-a$$ed attempt on my part.  I couldn't afford it.  Now I have all the major locomotives of the N&W, and several of many classes, to boot.  So, is it really more expensive in the long run? Or do we just have many, many more options to spend money on, so the funds get diluted a bit?

I know I am getting more "bang for my buck" today than ever.
 

[CTValleyRR]

So how about we sum up 5 pages of posts in a few short lines:

1) The hobby doesn't have to be expensive.  If you use the "home" or "alternative" methods rather than going out for a retail hobby product.  I mean, you can buy pre-made benchwork for $50 per section, or you can make it yourself for about $10 for parts plus your own sweat (mental and physical).

2) While there is some initial outlay to get enough track and locos to get some kind of layout up and running, most of the expenditure is spread out over time, pretty much as long as the modeller can stand.  Most of us can budget $10 (or whatever) out of each paycheck to set aside for hobby stuff.

3) I've seen a lot of people throwing numbers around, but few references to the Consumer Price Index, which is the official measure of the change in prices in our country.  Contrary to some assertions, while the late 80s and early 90s saw some steady growth, the average was only 4.2% per year for the ten years from Dec 1985 to Dec 1995.  Now, admittedly, you can pretty much select a CPI that fits your particular argument from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, but the overall change in CPI (all commodities, not seasonally adjusted) from Jan 1970 to Jan 2009 is 458.6%... in other words, qualitative improvements aside, something that cost $100 in Jan 1970 should cost $459 today... and I just don't see that kind of price increase.  True, wage increases haven't generally kept up with this trend, so your "purchasing power" may be less today, but that has nothing to do with our hobby.

So RIP to the poor horse.

[BRAKIE]

Barry,Today those 2-8-0s go between $150.00(poor) to $450.00(mint)..

 

How I wish I kept all my brass steamers-I ended up with 7.

[blownout cylinder]

BRAKIE

When I was 14 ('62) I was making $1.65/hr working for a lawn care company during summer school break..BTW..That was the first and last time I worked for such a company even tho' the pay was good.

I bought my first brass steamer (a United Santa Fe 1950 class 2-8-0) out of my first check and still had some money left--not much..

When my wife started collecting Quilts back in the eighties she could pick them up in yard sales for a couple of bucks a piece. She recently sold one of those same quilts for $1100cdn.

When I see what a brass USRA 2-8-0 goes for I see collectors market. When one sees it in that sense we can see that the register/categories we use may throw us a loop. Who, back in the seventies for example, would have thought that, in some areas, collector markets would have taken off the way it has?

Maybe the collector market--being a secondary market --might come down, hence making a bit of a breathing space in MRR'ing. One never really knows----- 

[BRAKIE]

ham99

When I built my first layout in the 60's, an Athearn blue box car cost me a bit over two hours wages.  Now an Atlas box car with operating knuckle couplers costs me slightly over an hour's wages.  Don't dwell on old sticker prices -- the economy is changing too fast for that.  Compare earning power and see the bargain model railroading gives you. 

 

When I was 14 ('62) I was making $1.65/hr working for a lawn care company during summer school break..BTW..That was the first and last time I worked for such a company even tho' the pay was good.

I bought my first brass steamer (a United Santa Fe 1950 class 2-8-0) out of my first check and still had some money left--not much..

[ham99]

When I built my first layout in the 60's, an Athearn blue box car cost me a bit over two hours wages.  Now an Atlas box car with operating knuckle couplers costs me slightly over an hour's wages.  Don't dwell on old sticker prices -- the economy is changing too fast for that.  Compare earning power and see the bargain model railroading gives you. 

[BRAKIE]

Midnight said:

Model railroading is not, in and of itself, an expensive hobby.  It can get that way if you follow the MR magazine "Dream It, Plan it, Buy It" mantra. (A gallon of white glue diluted with water is substantially cheaper than WS official "Scenic Cement")
------------------------------------

Absolutely!

Of course MR (like all magazines) push the advertise merchandise,gimmicks and other items that one doesn't really need to enjoy this rather simple hobby..And contrary to the "experts" and "expert wannabes" this is a simple and basic hobby that is filled with overkill..

 

It never fails to amaze me how many modelers fall into that trap.

[blownout cylinder]

There is a whale of a difference between sailing in a 15' day cruiser and going for a 60' Endeavour that is capable of ocean crossings. One CAN make things very expensive for themselves, if they so desire. But then, the fellow doing this is doing it by choice.

We can do this by choice as well--by thinking through what we are looking for. Not all lines need the latest Big Boy or what have you. My short line has now all the switchers--such as the RS2's and RS3's I've been getting through second hand shops and fleamarkets---and roadswitchers like the RS11's and such through same sources--we need. Same for rolling stock--no need to get the best of the best all the time---or as previous post said ---why get WS Scenic glue when good ol' school glue watered down has worked so well all this time?

[Midnight Railroader]

jwhitten

Is it just me or what? (I'm looking for some old-timer perspective here...)

Forgive me for not reading all the other comments.

Model railroading is not, in and of itself, an expensive hobby.  It can get that way if you follow the MR magazine "Dream It, Plan it, Buy It" mantra. (A gallon of white glue diluted with water is substantially cheaper than WS official "Scenic Cement")

If, however, you do things yourself, the hobby is a lot less expensive.

Want an expensive hobby? Try racing, where one speedshop's sign I saw said,"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

 

[andrechapelon]

willy6

I found this Walthers 1979 reference manual at a antique store.First of all the "Walthers" reference manual was priced @ $5.00 and had 384 pages. Back in 1979 an Athearn Penn Central 40' BB boxcar was $2.25. An Athearn SD 9 powered was $18.98,WS ballast was$1.39 (7oz.), Atlas brass track was $1.80 for 6 9" straights,flextrack was $1.40 nickel silver each,Kadee #5's were $2.20 and S/H was $1.00. I can't calculate the inflation rate to see if these were good prices.

2009 equivalent prices

Ref. Man: $14.54

Box car kit (note: horn hook couplers): $6.54

SD9: $55.20

Bureau of Labor Statistics Inflation calculator: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl 

Andre

 

 

[Buildy]

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

 

Inflation calculator.

 

Only goes up to 2007,but still pretty interesting to run the numbers.

[willy6]

I found this Walthers 1979 reference manual at a antique store.First of all the "Walthers" reference manual was priced @ $5.00 and had 384 pages. Back in 1979 an Athearn Penn Central 40' BB boxcar was $2.25. An Athearn SD 9 powered was $18.98,WS ballast was$1.39 (7oz.), Atlas brass track was $1.80 for 6 9" straights,flextrack was $1.40 nickel silver each,Kadee #5's were $2.20 and S/H was $1.00. I can't calculate the inflation rate to see if these were good prices.

 

[Dakota Northern]

Yes, MRing is getting pricey.  I just bought two cheaper locos, Bachmann, like two for $26.  They are good machines,and pull well.  Watch for the bargains.  I also have a dozen extra Locos, several dozen extra pieces of rolling stock, extra track and turnouts.  What do you say!  Let get those on Ebay or to a consignment shelf?  I clean my shelves, you get the good deals, bid only what you can afford.  Actually my hobby shop sells on consignment, I will let him make a couple of bucks and spead the word about the hobby.